Im very impressed with his play lately. Hope we keep going to him, seems there's alot of potential there for big plays with him.

 

Can't complain.

 

Nope can't complain about Clay or Bush these last few weeks. Glad we are finally getting a win.

 

Clay has great hands. Should be a good addition to the team.

 

Great blocking on the Bush touchdown

 

He's better than Fasano.

 

I think he has a chance to be a heck of a player if this team would ever commit to a pass oriented offense and commit to getting the backs involved in the passing game.

 

A difference maker for us, clearly, his limit is pretty much what Daboll uses him for imo.

Rb/Te/Fb/Wr, he is a mismatch wherever he lines up, finally healthy as well.

His receptions were great, but on a Bush TD he blocked his guy 20 yds down the field, meaning he locked up with the guy and drove him back 60 feet, now THAT impresses me.

 

Not bad for a 6th round pick.

 

truly, a big bright spot on the team right now.

 

If he becomes a good blocker we can become a 2 TE team that features Bess, Marshall, the dangerous threat of Clay lining up anywhere, Fasano, and a resurgent Reggie Bush. That's quite a bit of speed and dangerous combinations of players. It reminds me of New England's offense with the exception that instead of Branch we have Brandon Marshall. With the current OL personnel (run blockers, guys that need to be in a PA offense) it's a far better choice than 3 and 4 WR sets with Bush trying to run the ball. That was terrible especially with Moore.

Lex Hilliard is no slouch either with Bush running behind him. Finally we saw the Jet sweep.

 

His 40 speed is supposed to be in the 4.6-4.7 range but there is no way that's the case. He looks about as fast as Marshall.

 

He's fluid as a receiver, if he can block well at FB he'll be just a totally different weapon.

 

Charles Clay is like a new toy that creative offensive coaches try to think up ways to get him the ball, whereas traditional offensive coaches look at him and think, "he's not a tight end and he's not a fullback. We can't use him."

He has had health issues, but I'm convinced that this coaching staff prior to this game simply has not found a way to get him involved in the offense. Much like today is the first time they really used Reggie Bush like he should be used. I think today was the first jet sweep I've seen them run with Reggie, and he took it to the house for a touchdown.

 

KB what do you think of Bush as a RB that has to have lead blocking or at least be in formations where he can take it outside rather than being thrown into a spread offense with misconceived notions about what he should be doing.

 

I hope our next coach uses him well, and doesnt discard him because he is a 6th round pick.

 

I don't know if that's true, because he hasn't shown the downside yet. He's not the liability as a blocker a lot of people(myself included) expected him to be.

He's been a pretty decent looking run blocker at both on the line and in the backfield. He looked like a more than serviceable lead blocker as an I-formation fullback in the Denver game, and given the **** that gets passed off as blocking from a lot of tight ends these days, he looks like he could be a cut above. He looked pretty good on that strange pull-blocking they've got him doing.

As long as he's blocking well, and you're getting him down the field and using him, I don't think it matters where you put him. If a WCO coach comes in and wants him primarily as a fullback, that's fine, etc. and so on.

Also, am I mistaken, but did he catch two passes on Brandon freaking Flowers?

 

He can definitely be a factor for us moving forward. Nice to have a real downfield receiving threat at TE, or at least a guy with the potential to be that. If he can be a consistent blocker, that will make him a real impact player.

 

That is actually really impressive. I'm not sure Bess or Hartline could do that. If he progresses a lead blocker the sky is the limit. There are no more great FBs that can catch, block, and run the way he can. What a weapon.

 

he is our version of Dallas Clark ... will be a great passing threat. does not need to be in the backfield.

if we want to see him as a short yardage back, that's fine -- but i have no interest in seeing him as a lead blocker. it will shorten his career -- and it looks like he has a bright future as a TE/WR.

 

I dunno, there are some long-lived fullbacks. Lorenzo Neal played until he was 37, Tony Richardson 38, Michael Sellers and Jim Kleinsasser have both essentially played the same fullback/TE niche as Charles Clay primarily as blockers and they are still in the league at 36 and 34.

 

A bit like putting a plow on a race horse, sure you can, but that is not their best use.

 

He's gotta block no matter what. He's got the potential to be an every-snap player, if he's a legit lead blocker what's the harm there?

 

in these days of concussions ... i just see no need to waste this kids potential talent as a TE/WR, short yardage back in being a snow plow. Clay CAN be an everydown player without that piece, he is showing enough potential on the field ... we just don't need him as a 'blocking back' ...

we cry and bemoan for a pass catching TE ... we now have an alternative - and now folks want to mess around with it ...

 

We see it with Fasano, "good block" turns into 'stay in to help" turns into "to valuable a blocker to send into patterns"

Sadly, it is wise for a young player with physical tools to not become "too' good at the grunt work, then you just become an athletic blocker but a blocker none the less.

Leave that to the plow horses disgustipate.

 

I wonder how often Owen Daniels and James Casey have to stay in to block in Houston... Arian Foster for that matter too...

 

He is certainly a far better selection than Thomas or Gates who were selected much earlier in the draft. Thomas looked good earlier in the season but he appears to have problems staying healthy. I don't see a long career for Thomas in the NFL. Gates appears to have nothing but speed to offer as an NFL player. His route running is terrible and he has one catch in eight games. He also has done absolutely nothing on kick returns and has trouble returning the ball to the 20 yard line when he does decide to bring the ball out.

I think Pouncey and Clay are keepers when the new regime takes over. As for the rest of the 2011 draft picks. They all will have a difficult time sticking when a new HC is in charge.

 

There isn't any "stay in to help" in the context of run blocking. If you're on the field on a run play and you're not a quarterback, you are basically going to be responsible for blocking someone. There isn't really much of an alternative.

I don't think Clay playing fullback vs. tight end is really all that important in the context of pass protection. As it stands, he's not really being used much to pass block. PFF has him with 40 passing down snaps so far this year, 38 where he ran a route and 2 where he blocked. That's a small sample size, but guys like Tony Gonzalez and Jimmy Graham are doing it more frequently.

Fasano pass blocks a decent amount because he's pretty good at it, and it helps set up some of the stuff he does well in the pass game, a lot of which involves him looking like he's going to pass block and then releasing into a route.

 

He's had one reoccurring injury since pre-season, and it's an injury that pretty frequently has re-occurrences.

 

I need to see a lot more flexibility out of him when he's running routes before I say he's the answer at that position personally, but I tell you that his lower body is very strong.

Anybody have that play of him blocking so good on?, the one where I heard he blocked someone 30 yards downfield?.

 

When the OC draws up plays, if "you" are good at the dirty work you do not get the opportunities for the offensive playmaking work.

As time rolls along his role will settle out, but I've made my view known.

Which sort of proves my point no?

 

I don't know if that's really true. If Clay proves to be a quality receiving threat, I doubt he's going to be hamstrung as a blocker.

No, I think people generally get used to their merits. I don't think there are a lot of guys who both are good at blocking and receiving are tied down blocking too often. Guys like Jason Witten, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Pettigrew, Marcedes Lewis, etc. are still utilized in the passing game even though they block well enough they'd continue to be employed without their receiving contribution being what they are.

Situationally, yes, sometimes those players end up blocking more than they ideally should be, but I think it's to their offenses benefit. If they're needed to block, they can block.

 

Matt Moore

You know Clay brings up something interesting possibilities now that he can block . I was watching some tape on the older FBs from the 1970s that used to run the ball for a nice 3-4 YPC and I think we've got one of those in Hilliard. If you were to put Clay, Hilliard, and Bush in the backfield together, with two WRs on the outside you could split Bush out wide against a WLB and Clay against a SLB. The benefit is that unlike most teams who split out their RB wide, you have a legitimate RB still in the backfield with two major mismatches in coverage in addition to Marshall. The defense is likely to go into cover 2 as I doubt you want one high safety to have to adjust to three mismatches in coverage.

You're left at the line with your five linemen against base package linemen and the fifth guy the MLB. On a run play a fast north-south guy like Hilliard will easily chew up 4 yards a play to keep the defense honest and set up a really ugly PA game with those mismatches still present on the outsides. Frankly I don't teams will be able to keep their base package in against this audible. I think they'll be required to go into a dime formation to adjust. Once they bring those extra DBs onto the field, revert back to a full-fledged Pro formation with the same personnel and ram the ball until they croak.

 

Jaj, I really enjoy your takes on the game of football...smart mother grabber..

 

Indeed....that would be fun to see something like this rampaging down the field, if it works. My question would be, can bush or hilliard consistently push 4 yards behind our oline, even in a 5 vs 5 matchup? I'd like to think so, and the oline play the last few weeks tells me yes - but that would be the breaking point of such a setup.

Ideally, even a dime package would still give us some vulnerable DB play to throw against, or some exploits on RB passes against a LB if he runs a flats type of route after the snap.

Another thought - if you have clay and marshall on the same side, and they have 2 DBs matched up (or even a LB split out + the DB), the quick WR screen possibilities are interesting. Theyre both solid blockers, and Marshall certainly has the ability to make the first guy miss for a 5-10 yard pickup. I dont know if Clay would have the moves, but the right routes could pick the defender on a block. It would be another interesting dynamic to sprinkle in. That kind of play is always a nice 1st and 10 or 2nd and change play to keep them on their heels, IMO.

Theres alot of interesting possibilities with such a personnel formation... maybe we start to see it sometime soon?

 

alen1 had a nice article written up on Clay that should be checked out:

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/11/08/the-tape-never-lies-dolphins-rookie-clay-shows-promise/