I guess we just disagree on whether Albert is worth giving up #42 and giving him a long term deal worth 9 mil per.
So let's say for argument sake, we draft Star at 12 and trade for Albert. That's $11M for a star DT and LT. That's only $5.5M per guy. How is that a bad deal? How is that costing us more in the long run, when we'd still need to get a DT in the future?
If Miami doesn't draft one of the big 3 that doesn't mean we lose any traction. We can still draft Fluker or another tackle later.
Yes, $11M for a star DT and LT. Thats still a lot more than trading up to 6, and only paying $3M. Thats $8M that Jeff Ireland can tell Stephen Ross he saved him, so he can buy empty seats. In terms of football-sense, staying at 12 is much better IMO. I almost never like trading up. Unfortunately there is more to it than just maximizing talent on the football field, especially with teams that have poor attendance and financials. Jeff Ireland needs to make the case as to why that $8M will end up being worth what is spent. If Star is drafted at 12, and he turns out to be a bust (which is a very possible outcome), then you burned $8M on a more expensive LT that is older and less healthy. That is the type of thing that will get an owner to fire a GM. The owners fought tooth-and-nail for a rookie cap just to avoid this type of thing. Stephen Ross wants Jeff Ireland to fill the team with players on rookie contracts. Any time Ireland wants to do differently, it should be met with resistance.
I get where you are coming from. All I've been saying is we should wait for as long as we can to see if we get away with giving up a 3rd. My point is waiting until after KC picks makes more sense. If doesnt work out the way I think it will, we still have other options. Whether it be move up or draft a T later on. I just dont think we need to let KC bend us over to get Albert, who, as good as he is does have health and possible attitude concerns.
no one is arguing that $3M is more than $11M. But you're saying Ross might not be happy about spending $9M on a LT if it meant he could get another impact player for cheap. I don't think Ross thinks that way. I think he'd gladly spend $11M for two great players instead of $3M for one and only one. Its not like there isn't a salary cap, which by owning an NFL team you pretty much agree to spend that much ever year, give or take.
To be honest, I think it's probably less of than a 40% chance that Jacksonville OR Oakland selects any of the tackles. They both have decent starting LT's and drafting a tackle for the other side with those positions in the draft is just bad business. Ireland should wait this one out.
Right, but the give or take is 10%. If you look back at the past few years, Miami has always been around 10% under the cap. And if you go through and do the math, Stephen Ross is spending about that much on buying empty seats. I don't think Stephen Ross is necessarily opposed to spending all the way up to the cap. But he's definitely not going to do that unless he's sure that money is well spent. The devil is in the details. A lot of it comes down to Albert's health, or how they feel about whomever they could get at 6 and 12. My point is really that there is a lot of things to consider, and nothing here is clear-cut.
The price isn't the same though. It could probably cost the Dolphins at least their 1st 6 picks to move from 12 to 2 based on the draft value chart. 2nd pick = 2600, (1200 + 480 + 360 + 205 + 180 + 72) = 2497. http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php
But who says we have to move to 2. Could be 4 or 6. Or even lower depending on what the FOs opinion on Lane Johnson is.
I think its very clear cut, to stay at #12 draft whoever you want and trade for Albert, instead of trading 2 to 3 high picks to draft one LT. As many questions as someone might have about Albert's back, you'd have the same amount questions about the top LTs to even play in the pros and their health as well (see: Long, Jake). We aren't talking about astronomical amounts of money for a Top 10 LT. The odds are absolutely better that Albert will be better than any LT we draft, since he's already proven he can play at a high level.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-chiefs-resume-dialogue-about-branden-albert/ Back and forth it goes...now we're back in discussions with KC....likely part of the 'lying' season game, but who knows...Personally, I'd be ecstatic if they trade 54 (and doing cartwheels - something hard for an overweight 57, yr old to do - if they only gave up a 3rd) for Albert, even if that means giving him the 4yr/$36m he wants... We don't really lose much at that point and we've still got 4 picks in the first 2 days of the draft...
I'm at the point that trading up for an olineman* or trading to the bottom of the round is about the only 2 moves I'll be upset with in the 1st. *Because I don't think it makes sense to give 2 to 3 high picks for a tackle when we can give up 1 pick for Albert. Not because I don't think tackles are unimportant.
I agree to an extent. But he has injury concerns, and is very expensive. And he will force Martin to RT, which I don't think he can play. Martin is a natural/better LT. Down the road, it could be a catastrophic mistake along our line. I'd be happy signing Winston to play RT, and letting the draft come to us. I'd be content with that line as I'm sure we would find another capable and cheap lineman in our first 5 picks. I don't want to force Martin to RT though, and i don't want to see us drop near jake long money on a guy who is just as injury prone and risky. I too, do not want to see us give up picks to move up and take an LT. Not in a draft like this.
That chart is just a guide, though. I admit it would be expensive to move up, but a lot depends on how desperate someone is to move down, also.
Why are we even in this position? Why is this line still a mess after all the money and picks devoted to this unit?
Contracts expire. Players age. Either way, I wouldn't say the line is a mess. Its solid overall, but they need to bring in a tackle.
Wait, weren't Jake Long, Richie Incognito and Poucey like Pro Bowl alternates or something? I wouldn't say the line is a total disaster.
Yeah. Richie actually went and it was pretty well agreed upon that the wrong pouncey got voted in. jake longs gone tho.
If you're opinion is to be believed, even having 2/5th of your line being Pro Bowl caliber means you have a solid OL in today's NFL. Between Pouncey, Incognito, Martin, and Lance Louis, thats enough talent to constitute a solid OL. Assuming that the other tackle isn't a complete albatross.
the o line is not in that bad of shape. we're no worse off than the colts and they made it to the playoffs. Steelers, giants, patriots etc none of them have awesome o lines either. the game isn't played the same way anymore. QBs can't be touched, T's are allowed to hold, DB's can't touch wrs. this all leads to less sacks and more pts. period.
@ArmandoSalguero The #Dolphins are on board with the parameters of a contract with Branden Albert. They are ready to pay him elite LT money. SMDH
KC's GM is saying they've been talking today to Miami and will continue tonight in hope of completing a deal... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...andon-albert-could-be-traded-before-nfl-draft
I know it's just a guide but IMO the draft chart is and always has been irrelevant. If you want some one you know you can get 6 spots down and the only offer on the table is a 2, why stay at your slot because the trade value isn't there? You take your bonus 2 plus the player you really wanted 6 spots down.
If Ireland gives up a 2nd AND another pick, I will ******* lose it. I dont even want to give up a 2nd.
You know what? Get San Fran on the phone and see if they are willing to seal the deal. It's a near impossibility before the draft but you have to give it a go. If you can shake hands with San Fran, send the 2 and a late pick and pay Albert. You're going to have a whirlwind of DB options at 31, you've solved LT and San Fran would have given us, at the very least, 3 first day *additional* picks this year.
I'm telling you, you guys are beating me down for going to 31 and it really is the answer if San Fran signs off. Now, lets say the Cheifs do take the upper hand (it's been debated who will have it to no end)' you have enough ammunition from the San Fran trade to send the desired picks to KC and still have one hell of a draft.
Why would San Francisco trade up before even knowing whos there? Suppose theyre targeting vaccaro or tavon..good chance those guys are gone at 12. They have a harbaugh, not a sparano running the show.
3 posts in a row needed. Guys, pray for 31. Go over the DBs that wil be available and tell me you won't be happy with one? A ransom of picks in the meat of the draft, enough picks to go get Albert, enough picks for a universe of possibilities.
Very true. I stated near impossibility. But even then, could be well after KC picks. If KC goes LT as expected, now we can feel comfortable- more than comfortable- giving up a 2 and another pick for Albert if we've acquired all of those juicy picks from San Fran. It dawned on me trade with San Fran in order to get Albert does not need to happen before KC picks. *meant to reply to Bevo*
I agree everything is negotiable. I just think it's a pretty steep price for a guy that doesn't touch the ball. If you go with the proven NFL starter then it's just a salary cap issue and still have plenty of ammo to cherry pick other picks.
