http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...anscript/a92e0d5a-ea46-44ec-a2bf-7b9e492204df (On things the defense did to close out yesterday’s game that they hadn’t done in the past two games) – “I think we kept pressure on the quarterback at the end of the game....We were able to make the big interception on the last play, but there was a series of plays during that, those three plays at the very end where I was impressed with Nolan Carroll when they tried to throw the comeback on him. At that point in the game, he was aggressive and knocked the ball away, right in front of their sideline....What a tremendous played (Olivier) Vernon made coming back. He looked like a linebacker covering the guys down the slot, came back and tipped the ball away. There was a bunch of individuals that were making plays, even on the interception by Reshad (Jones). Randy Starks is right in the throwing lane with his hand up and I think that that had something to do with the trajectory of the ball coming off (Andy) Dalton’s hand at that time. He had some push into the pocket and didn’t give him a chance to have a great vision down the field. All those things come into play” (On cornerback Nolan Carroll) – “This was the first opportunity that he had to start and really had a full week of preparation...He did a lot of things, some that were seen by everybody in stands, but yet there was some things that, as we watched the tape, he really did well....There was one throw in the later part of the game as well that they threw across the field on like a quick out cut and, if the ball was catchable, he might have taken it the other way....I thought it was his best overall performance...”
probably not but thats just a guess. U can usually tell when a team practices turnovers like the Bengals from a couple of years ago comes to mind. Sometimes its just good players making good plays every now and then but when its practiced you begin to see just about everyone trying to strip a ball and lineman jumping and swatting balls. Its a pleasent thing to see. I hope we continue to practice it more and more!
You know Coyle was the Bengals D-co-ordinator a couple of years ago right? Or was that coincidence that you used them as an example?
Well, turnovers can lead to touchdowns..... and we all knew of Tony's aversion to those little buggers.
He was their DB coach for 11 seasons; never their Defensive Coordinator. That was, and is still, Mike Zimmer.
Baby Squid does look like a OLB tbh, for a DE he is long and lean a bit like Cam Wake when he first got to the CFL.
Based on his special teams play, his ability to stop the run, total lack of pass rush success and his play in space...yeah I think OV should essentially be trained on as Koa Misi's backup Sam linebacker. That would be an excellent way to salvage him, IMO.
Really curious why this got cut way down to two points when I had a lot more in here. I hope it's not because a mod thought I cut and pasted the entire article, because I did not. That's why it's titled Excerpts. I cut a LOT of the full transcript out and only left the most important parts. Probably about 40% of the length got cut out, which is why there is a link to the full press conference transcipt. I understand you cannot post an article in it's entirety, but I spend an hour pulling excerpts from Coyle, Sherman, Philbin's pressers plus a paraphrase (meaning massive rewording and shortening) of the Congemi article, yet all four have been drastically cut from my OP. Did I totally waste my time? And if so, please be dead clear with me what the rule is for how much of an article can be quoted. 50%? 25%? And the paraphrasing I don't understand at ALL. That's not even a quote. That's a summary of what the article says in about 20% of the length. PLease explain so I know how to act accordingly, or I'll just post a link and leave it at that from now on to save my time.
Totally agree. I have been nothing short of shocked how good he looked on a couple pass drops that stood out. Waste at pass rush DE, but maybe serviceable as strongside LB depth.
There's no reason to "salvage" Olivier Vernon. That's ridiculous. He's got 128 career snaps, for ****s sake.
He's a usesless boob as a passrusher, and in a way that, to my eyes, bears little hope of drastic improvement... even if left there until the Second Coming. He's active but somehow looks like another Phil Merling when trying to get past a blocker. In fact, he pretty much stays glued to blockers. The only use he has is that when a ballcarrier/QB is flushed directly into him he is able to stick his arm out and be part of the tackle. he creates nothing. he creates zilch on the outside. NO outside move or burst around the edge whatsoever. Easily handled by OTs. And zero inside moves to penetrate or get leverage. It's early, I agree, but I trust my eyes. This guy will never be a double-digit sack guy. Ever. However he HAS flashed in pass drops. Like a 'Wow' moment n that diving pass breakup Sunday. But if you'd prefer to play him where he doesn;t flash at all, then we totally disagree, Disgustipate.
Thanks bro. Well, at least RickyNeverInhaled got to read them last night. lol. I just wish I had known we cannot quote more than 10% of an article, as that's what it seems to be. Maybe the mods glanced at it, saw it was long and assumed it was the same. But I even the edited the paragraphs down and took stuff out. And I wholly deleted several paragraphs. The one that really confuses the **** out of me is me paraphrasing/summarizing Congemi's article with bullet points and even THAT being deleted as a post. What I take from it is this... 1) Either the mod looked at the full article and it looked, at a quick glance' similar to the post so they assumed it was barely edited. I mean, I took an hour to read through and edit out sentences, sections and parts, but unless you read both you won't know where. 2) The rule is you can only quote the very first few lines of any article, and you cannot summarize what was said in an article (even if you exclude a ton of the content and detail). I didn't know the second rule, if that's actually a rule now, or judgement call or whatever.
With all due respect your eyes are pretty much irrelevant. It's not uncommon for rookie pass rushers, especially raw rookie pass rushers to do what Olivier Vernon is doing. Go look at Jason Pierre-Paul at this point in their career. Go look at Clay Matthews. They all struggled as much, or even more than Vernon has at this point. It's really complete bull**** at this point to suggest they need to be adjusting their goals for Vernon at this point.
Matthews and JPP were disrupting the QB significantly in their rookie seasons. Just look at all above average pass rushers. Most, if not all, were able to at least show glimpses of pass-rush and disruption as rookies. Olivier Vernon does not have those glimpses. Not even close, IMO
Through 128 snaps? No. No they were most emphatically not. Both of them got their asses kicked the first half of their rookie season for the most part.
Just did this. Let me know when Olivier Vernon gets off the line this quick. This is JPPs 4th NFL game against the Bears. Like I said....Glimpses. That's all I'm asking for [video=youtube;gXlaoR4P1U0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXlaoR4P1U0[/video]
I like how the simple process of finding and accentuating what a player is good at is being deemed "ridiculous". I call it "development".
I see there's also some objection to the word "salvage". People get too caught up in words. Is Olivier Vernon going to be a good pass rusher any time soon? No. He's not one this year and the chances of him turning night and day as a pass rusher from this year to next year are slim. Down the road? Who can say. By "salvage" I mean that if we keep trying to fit the square peg in the round hole in the NEAR TERM, we're going to keep looking at a guy whose value on the football field is damn near minimal...so instead I'd like to fit the square peg in the square hole and thereby increase his value in the near term. That doesn't completely obliterate his chances of developing into a good pass rusher. Koa Misi still rushes the passer and his backup will still rush the passer and if you get down the road and notice, holy crap this guy's actually good at rushing the passer now, guess what...you're going to start having him do what he's good at, more often. But in the mean time it seems stupid and NOT helpful to either the team or his career to keep having the guy go out on the field and have minimal to no success doing something he is CLEARLY not currently good at, when you could have him train on at something he is good at.
But it's the quickness off the line. That glimpse of what a force he could be and turned into. I've watched all of Vernon's snaps at least twice. I don't see it with him yet. Hope I'm wrong
Not to me they aren't, obviously, but that's why everyone has an opinion. Lol. Oh come on JPP leapt off the screen at you with his athletic movement and frame. When you watch Vernon do you honestly see a raw JPP, because I sure don't. Clay Matthews was not being used as a three point stance defensive end, which is what I see Vernon doing nothing as.
I really appreciate it, because my phone won't let me see the transcript from that link. Sounds like you were wrongfully accused and I hope you get justice so I can keep seeing that info in the future. At least until I pay off the rediculous amount I owe the only internet provider where I live so I can get internet at my house again. lol.
And I'm saying you don't actually know that. Because you don't. Writing a guy off based on your pre-draft analysis and one-third of his rookie season is silly, even for the short-term. And I don't see why he's getting hurt going out there and getting experience. He's not a quarterback, he's not going to suddenly develop negative traits because he's unprepared or unready. As for not being helpful to the team, what exactly is the opportunity cost?
By your approach no one should ever take any guy off their draft board at ALL. It would be 'silly' to form an opinion that a guy will not develop into what you want at a position and for you to to want him. You assess. You trust your assement. You form a convicted opinion. I think all teams should be forced to equally divide the college players and give them at least..... I dont know, however many years of snaps you think the players need before the GMs, scouts and coaches have any right at all to think they have a clue about a player. Because that's the ad-absurdum extension of your philosophy. I agree there is a chance we cold assess incorrectly, but to say that in order to see if she wants to date a guy, she should marry him and have kids is bass-ackwards IMO. Deductive logic plus inductive reasoning based on small sample data allow you to make the best opinion you can on a player today. And you have to act on that. Do you suggest we assess these guys once they are already on the team before we decide if we want them?
Btw, it's that kind of thinking that wastes talent out-of-position and helps team lose instead of seeing production. I suppose we would have been better off rushing Vernon for zero impact on that play instead of him batting that pass down.
No, it's not. Olivier Vernon is not some random draft prospect. He's not an abstraction or a theoretical. He's a dude in the NFL. You can watch him play. There's production you can assign to his name. You can compare him to other NFL players. You can go look and see he had a pretty good game rushing the passer vs. the Cardinals. It wouldn't be all that shocking if in the next couple of weeks he started doing better as a pass rusher.
It would be to some people. I hope get shocked by him. I admit that even his nice pass drops the past few weeks surprised me. I'd still bet a case of beer on him never posting double digit sacks in his career if they keep him at DE.
I don't think those people are basing it on the best information. It's most of the information we have, but it's insufficient. It would be a good bet to pick any random player and suggest they'll never reach double digit sacks. I think you'd probably be right more often than not on pass rushers drafted in the top 10.
And a training camp, and preseason, and a college career. I don't understand this objection to the idea of utilizing a guy in areas that seem to fit his skill set, as part of his development. Hell, the Dolphins are already doing that. They've gone from the idea when he was drafted of him being the nickel pass rusher with his hand on the ground, to him playing with his hand off the ground a lot, and as a DE he's dropping back into coverage as often as you see LBs like Demarcus Ware dropping back. He's already being managed, being moved around to salvage the value that isn't currently there with the original thesis. I never declared what he'll NEVER be at the NFL level. I certainly don't think the odds are with him as a pass rusher from defensive end with his hand on the ground, based on what I've seen. I'm just looking at what he's currently doing in the roles he's being asked to play and suggesting that tweaking those roles may be in order and may be the best thing you can do for his career and for the team. But I guess that's ridiculous.
Yeah well I'd double down on this bet and not lose a wink of sleep, unfortunately because I'm not playing the odds. Anyways, let's hope I am wrong. Certainly wouldn't be the first or last time. Man... I can't even say that without wanting to say, "No. I'm sure this dude is not capable of becoming even a slightly above average pass rushing end" I agree that I am basing it on only the info I have up to this point, but I feel sufficiently sure nonetheless. Weird. I sometimes am not sure about a player when I watch them... Like Sean Smith... I couldn't tell if he'd develop or not, despite him having the tools and measurables. But some players I watch and just feel sure I am looking at a guy who won't become much. Like when I watched Phil Merling. Underwhelming.
I think my loud declarations he'll never be a decent pass rusher from the end position... Ever... Are muddying the waters. People are reacting and not hearing your argument clearly, perhaps.
