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COACHES CORNER: Could the Dolphins be going to a new base coverage?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DOLFANMIKE, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Keep in mind too that JJ actually ran alot more 2 deep man under with Surtain and Madison than he did Quarters, but he did run quarters some too. In Dallas, under Wanny and Butch Davis they were up around 70% Quarters in both running and passing downs. The thought that led me to rethink Quarters is how similiar our personel is to what JJ had in Dallas with our DB's, especially at Safety.
     
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  2. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    The CB's must be able to run and have outstanding footwork. This is not a scheme for a slow big hitting CB. Butler, Jenkins, Smith would all fit well. Basics would be someone that can cover post, Fade, and react well on screens and such. Tackling isn't the high priority for a CB in Quarters.
     
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  3. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I am not up on the draft like I used to be in the old days. I coach both at work and my sons team, so I miss alot of college football right now until my boy is done playing. But I can say that Bell and Wilson are prototyical Quarters Safeties and CB's like Butler (Fast, great footwork) are prototypical CB's in the system.

    I'm sure some of our draft guru's could mention some great fits to this scheme.
     
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  4. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Great question.

    I always answer it by saying I think that at first, it's such a different type of scheme people are a little fearful of just how different it is, but the rule one follows in it are simple, and the reads are VERY easy.

    One of the schemes greatest strengths is that the DB's get a bigger cushion than usual so they really like the view in the field of play. They get such a great angle and view on the ball that reads are easy to make and we see a very high % of players going where they should be. Much higher than any other coverage system I've seen, and in 25 years as you can imagine I've seen them all for the most part. The play is always in front of them and allows them just to be an athlete and attack based on the read.

    Jason Allen might be ok in Quarters. He'll get a better look and have more time to position himself.

    Remember too, that I have not researched Sparano or Bowles at all in terms of them ever using Quarters as a base, but we have ran a little of it zone wise on passing downs. I just think our decision on Wilson and Bell at SS and FS would be maximized if we'd go to JJ's Quarters as a Base.
     
  5. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    :yes::wink2: This not POFO so that all I'll say about that:up:


    Thanks Mike and the others who answered:up: This really sounds like something that will really fit our players and make best use of thier skills and strenghts.
     
  6. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    great read
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    FO did say that they prefer to match the schemes to the personel rather than the personel to the scheme. :wink2:
     
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  8. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    Mike, some things are more important than others. I see you have your priorities in order. :up: Having said that, it sure would be nice to have "Coaches Corner" as a regular for us to delve into the intricacies of higher level offenses & defenses.

    I really enjoyed your commentary.
     
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  9. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    Perfectly understandable, my brother. :up:
     
  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Thanks Mike. :up: I'm all for us in Cover 4. With good safeties this defense dominates!! I've watched Clemson do it for the past few years!! If it werent for a horrible OLine that kept the defense on the field too much, they would have been a top 5 defense again last year. You're right, the Safeties are the key!

    Michael Hamlin and Chris Clemons were the heart of the Tigers D, and either one of them/both were constantly involved in the action. It's such an atacking defense that it's a blast to watch! And we ran it in a 4-3 & 3-4 at times. Those 2 allowed our D to completely swarm!

    Michael Hamlin: 6'2, 214, 4.57-40....322 TKLs, 13 TFLs, 22 PBUs, 14 INTs, 4FF, 4FR.
    Chris Clemons: 6'0, 208, 4.33-40....323 TKLs, 6 TFLs, 20 PBUs, 5 INTs, 1 FF.

    Hamlin has incredible football intelligence/instincts along with being a great open field tackler. He disects plays quickly and lays the lumbar on a WRs. He has a knack for consistently separating the receiver from the ball (w/o getting flagged) that doesn't show up in any stat column.... and the kid is a born leader/great teammate.

    Mike, what I'd like to know is: how is an average top end speed guy like Hamlin affected in a cover 4 in the NFL?

    Here's the only video I could find that shows the whole field. Defense starts at 4 mintutes if you want to skip all the fun offense stuff. Does this look similar to what you're referring to.... if you can tell from this?
    Hamlin is #25 who knifes in on RB Brown.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzArTQcroOM"]YouTube - Clemson vs NC State 2008 Highlights[/ame]
     
  11. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Definatey looks like they are dropping into Quarters on at least a few of those pass plays on the highlight. It really gives an outstanding view of how tight the passing lanes are when the DB's read right and drop correctly. This year my team actually knocked down or grabbed the INT on more passes attempted beyond 20 yards than were completed (I'm not kidding!). Most the teams we played ran some variation of the Spread Offense and they were completely unprepared for deaing with Quarters vs the run or pass.

    As far as the Clemson video:
    One of the Safeties seemed to be coming up hard the way it would look vs the run too. True Quarters will have both doing that, but again, if one side has a slot or trips set, the onside guy will be later getting to the run.

    Another thing it looks like they may be doing is respecting a particular WR or formation on some of the run plays and keeping Safety back rather than bringing him up on cutback help. That could be because the team doesnt cutback much compared to throwing the fade or post to a stud WR, so they choose to honor that to an extreme. We've done that a few times if we really thought the other team had a special player at Wideout (Especially on passing downs).

    Again, the best aspect of Quarters is that vs the run you have 9 in the box and vs the pass you have 4 deep completly limiting the deep and middle pass with a full zone. The whole concept is based on the Safeties being able to make that accurate read and provide overload vs whatever they read.

    I'm on vacation in Cabo this week, but will be posting a highlight film vs the run and pass from this years group for you to view that will show a kids version of what we are talking about. I may even have some Dallas Cowboy highlight video on it.

    BTW - Speaking on the Carolina (Clemson) area, I was actually offered a OC position at Riverside High School just outside Greenville a few years ago and an Asst. Coaching position at Greenville High School. I guess the coach at Greenville (they have uniforms that look like Georgia Bulldogs) is supposed to becoming a legend down in those parts. His Brother was the Riverside Coach. Seemed like great people with programs good for kids.
     
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  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Kudos on the dominant secondary!! And the coaching too. LOL.
    Looks like you didn't take the Greenville HS job. With how well you're doing now, I doubt you have any regrets. :wink2:

    Hamlin was the one shooting the line. He reads plays very quickly. Brown is a big back who doesn't cut back very much, so that could be what you're referring to with them playing back. Their positioning did seem to change based on who we played. All I know is they were rarely out of position to make a play.
    I'd love to see a video of it being successfully run in the NFL.
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Parcells has said in the past that he wants corners who are solid and willing run defense corners. Guys who will come up on the sweep and make plays. That would indicate to me that tackling ability and physicality are things he looks for.
    That would sound to me as exactly like Jairus Byrd. Now he isn't as fast as Butler and only ran in the 4.6s a week ago after recovering from a groin injury to where he could run. Butler on the other hand is blazing fast, and can stay with anyone, but he hits like a marshmallow and isn't likely to out muscle guys like Moss or Andre Johnson for any high passes.
    Byrd does very well on plays in front him. He isn't fast for the 40, but is very quick with good feet, but it sounds like you don't think he'd be as effective playing quarters.
     
  14. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Of course we'd like guys that will tackle, and it's not like the only coverage we'd use is Quarters even if we go to it, but if we do emphasize it more Coverage CB's will take on a bigger priority than a cover 2 type CB (Big physical CB).

    There's no doubt it would be a shift in philosophy in terms of our base, but given Bell and Wilson's strengths and weaknesses, I think there's a reasonable chance we might see some of it. The alternative would be running a mixed bag like last season, with Bell and Wilson dropping into both Cover 2 and Cover 3 (giving them deep coverage responsibility) in the middle of the field. I guess they could do that but I don't see that as their strengths.
     
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  15. phinnhedd

    phinnhedd Reality.

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    Listening to the recent interview with Gibril Wilson on WQAM on Aquavision there was a question posed by Kim Bokamper, which goes as follows:

    Bokamper: Have you talked to Defensive Coordinator Paul Pasqualoni about the defense, about the scheme, about where you'll fit into this picture?

    Gibril Wilson: Yes, I know that we're a QUARTERS team, we'll be able to move around a little bit more than usual. ...we'll be able to run a lot more disguises, different looks. I think this is a perfect fit for me...

    Pretty much sums up what you were thinking Coach DolfanMike.

    If you want to hear it from his mouth, just go to MD.com go to the aquavision player and look for the WQAM interview with Gibril Wilson. He talks about running as a quarters team at about 3:30.
     
  16. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    LOL...well that is outstanding! I hadnt seen or heard about that, but it just made sense based on Wilson's addition and Bell's resigning. I'm thrilled, and you just made my day! Thanks... it's good to see the last 25 years coaching taught me something!

    D-Mike
     
  17. KMoorez

    KMoorez New Member

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    Great read. It's something I thought about, too, when the Fins signed Wilson and then brought Bell back. Having 2 interchangeable safeties leads me to believe that we could see more quarters coverage.
     
  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Sooooo.... how soon should we be grooming Bell's replacement so we don't miss a beat when he's done?
    Can we say trading up for Eric Berry next year? LOL
     
  19. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Wilson also mentioned a key ingredient into running the Quarters run scheme I spoke of when he said that he and Bell were basically "inter-changable" and could be all over the field and disquise looks. Sometimes when we run it we don't ever switch Safeties. One always lines up Right and the other always on the Left.


    I'm very excited!
     
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  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Me too!!!! :hi5:
     
  21. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    i see youre from So Cal as well if you dont mind me asking what school do you coach for?
     
  22. joeydolfan

    joeydolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Berry is an absolute beat of a safety and I was really pissed when he chose Tennessee...

    I was hoping he would pick the Hurricanes who recruited him hard.

    Imagine a safety tandem of Eric Berry and Major Wright if both had chosen Miami.........


    Thats a nasty safety combo..
     
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  23. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Arlington High School in Riverside. This year I moved down to Coach the Frosh (Head coach and OC) so that I'd have time to also coach my son's team. I'm also responsible for getting our student / athlete's scholarships in football. I've been a Varsity OC for most of my 25 years coaching out here and have coached at Div I and Div. V, and Div. VIII schools.

    I'm also an Arlington Grad and won a CIF Championship here in 1981 (Starting Tailback) and was part of the staff that won it again in 1990.
     
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  24. Dolphin1184

    Dolphin1184 Member

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    I think this post is trophy case worthy for sure.
     
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  25. Philter25

    Philter25 New Member

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    Wow. Kudos Mike for making that call! A lot of people noted the similar skillsets of Bell and Wilson and figured it would give us more flexibility in the secondary, but you were the only person I ever read that stated we were going to switch up our base coverage. Great call man!
     
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  26. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Hey Coach, back to what MC was asking about how Byrd might fit into this scheme...what are your thoughts? Is he a good fit, or not?
     
  27. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    Would rather have Myron Rolle.

    ----------------
    Now playing: Explosions In The Sky - Lonely Train
    via FoxyTunes
     
  28. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I love Byrd and think he could play Safety or CB in Quarters. I could see him become a Pro Bowler in a few seasons in our scheme.
     
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  29. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    Honestly, if we're going to start running quarters then the thing to do would be to draft Hamlin in the third or fourth. Draft Rolle next year to make sure we have depth and let the cat sit back to learn the system.
     
  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Good thinking.... but let's give Wilson a year with us to see if it first merrits us taking a safety in the top 4 rounds next year. LOL.
     
  31. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I definately like the idea of Hamlin. He understands the angles already based on the film I've seen posted recently. Some of the other names that I hope we consider on draft day are J. Byrd, Macho Harris, and Sean Smith. I like Smith as CB but Byrd might be able to play either. Harris sounds to me like a Safety after a year of putting on some weight.
     
  32. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Thanks. I figure I've been coaching other peoples kids for 25 years, I may as well give my own boy some of my time while he's still at home. Right now, he's looking like a really promising OL, so it's an exciting time in his development. We're hoping he keeps growing and stays healthy.

    I enjoy doing the "Coaches Corner" and my hope is to do some more before the season begins.
     
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  33. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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  34. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I like Byrd as a quarters corner and Sherrod Martin of Troy. Darius Butler played an awful lot of cover 4 at UCONN and as Mike mentioned in his outstanding analysis, Sean Smith is another who can cover down the field and who possesses great feet. Another guy worth mentioning is Asher Allen of Georgia.
     
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  35. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    Really? I've never seen it. Never seen anything about the cat's game that convinces me he can be an NFL cornerback. Let's be real, he lucked into most if not all of his interceptions in college, whereas most of the other corners mentioned as first and second round material had to break to the ball and work for the pick.
     
  36. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'd pretty much have to disagree with everything you said there.
     
  37. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    So all those underthrown fades and bad passes deep that he picked was work? Please, I could've made those picks. What's worse is the cat is consistently two or three steps behind his guy in man coverage, which means he either has never seen a hip pocket he likes or is slow.

    What really scares me about this guy is that what happens if he's playing safety in the first full pad practice, reads run properly and Ronnie lowers his pads? Sean Smith will be lucky to come out of that exchange with a collapsed lung. I don't even know how the hell the cat played football for four years being skinny as he is, but he's going to get hurt trying to play as a Quarters safety.

    He'll be a decent free safety in a more traditional base coverage scheme or a cover 2 corner, but he doesn't have a position in Miami.
     
  38. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I don't see that at all. I think his feet are fine, and he is a ball hawk. His height is a plus and he'll bulk up more in the pro's. I think he can play CB in any system. He's not a slider by the sounds of it so far and almost everyone I've seen has him as a round 1-2 guy.
     
  39. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    I think you miss my point entirely. I'll agree that he has good footwork and seems to have a knack for finding the ball in the air. But that's not what I'm looking for first and foremost in a corner, because sloppy footwork can be corrected with fundamental drills and instincts honed. In a corner I want a fast and aggressive landshark, someone who is going to make both receiver and QB think twice about attacking him. I don't see that in Sean Smith at all. Presently there are six corners I would take in the first two rounds before I'd consider Smith.

    I project Smith as a safety and being perfectly honest there are at least three pure safeties I'd take before Smith because I know what they bring to the table as safeties and I have no clue with Smith. He reminds me of the perfect mix between J. Allen and Satele, a tweener technician. We've seen how well those two have worked out in Miami.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Best corner feet in this draft belong to DJ Moore. I am rather disappointed we seem to have no interest in him. Could it be height? Since we seem to have some interest in A. Smith who is an eighth of an inch taller, I wouldn't think so. Asher Allen is just 5/8s taller and we seem to have some interest there too.
    I don't buy the forty time as a reason. I don't care that DJ timed a 4.56 because he plays a lot faster than that.
     

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