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Coffee Break from Draft and Logos. Zach Thomas HOF? NLF.Com have Zach as our 3rd best

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FanMarino, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Im posting this because everytime i read up on Zachs Stats and seeing him play im wondering why Zach is always a huge question mark for a bust in Canton. Ive just see him pop up 3rd on NFL.com on our best players drafted behind Dan and Czonka. Thats serious company. Jason Taylor (future HOF) and Dwight Stephenson (HOF) below him on that list.
    Fifth-round pick, undersized, 12 years in Miami, making seven Pro Bowls and finishing his career with more tackles than all but four players in NFL history. If Superbowls are a reflection on getting into Canton then it's a pretty poor reflection on experts opinions and footballers careers and stats. Stats dont lie do they?
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He'll always have my vote.
     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The only reason why I see him overlooked is because he played at the same time as Ray Lewis.

    I know other players are not supposed to color people's opinions of players, however Ray Lewis was so dominating during his time.

    When voting for the Hall people look at people who defined a generation. When you think of linebackers during their time, the first one that comes up is Ray Lewis.

    Here is a stat. Zach Thomas was a 5x first team All-Pro.
    Dan Marino was 3x first team All-Pro.

    Unfortunately Ray Lewis was a 7x first team All-Pro.
     
    SICK likes this.
  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    His play overlapped a fair bit with London Fletcher and Brian Urlacher also, not just Ray Lewis.
     
  5. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see London Fletcher being a factor in Zach's Hall of Fame chances. The Ray Lewis thing is certainly a factor.
     
  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Lack of a title hurts "fringe" guys like him - if he and JT had a ring, would probably be a shoo-in. But without? Right or wrong, that also colors perception.
     
  7. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    London Fletcher is so undervalued its bordering on criminal. I dont buy the Lewis tag. Ive heard that so many times. Marino played his career with so many HOF QB's its rediculous. Favre, Montana, Young, Manning, Aikman, Fouts, Elway,Moon, Kelly. If One player (Lewis) can undervalue Zach Thomas then its a slight on the LB position imo.
     
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  8. BayAreaFinFan

    BayAreaFinFan D'oh Club Member

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    He's a HOF in my book. But we got to see him play every Sunday, while nationally he wasn't a big name. We know he was great but he certainly didn't have as much exposure as a ray Lewis or Brian urlacher.
     
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  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Quarterback is different than linebacker. There is no way the Moon of linebackers gets into the hall of fame.
     
  10. ChrisKo

    ChrisKo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He also overlapped with Derrick Brooks which, coupled with the other mentioned LBs during the same time, doesn't bode well for Zach's chances. I'm hopeful he'll eventually get in, but it's going to take time and he'll need the media's help.
     
  11. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    4TH all time in tackles and he has to wait to even see if he makes it? 5th Round pick and undersized? USA. Country of opportunity? If any player bonafied that thens its Zach.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't think he should, however I am not someone who makes the decision.
     
  13. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    There are other contemporary linebackers in the Hall - Nitschke and Butkus were contemporaries, and they are both in. Zach deserves it as much as Lewis or Urlacher.
     
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  14. sloppyjoer

    sloppyjoer New Member

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    I definitely think ZT should be in. Comparing to QBs isn't really fair, apples to oranges imho. By some examples here, it would seem legit to let Dilfer in because he won a ring...makes me vomit.

    Altho I get that winning is the end goal for everyone, and the accolade sure looks nice on a resume, however should not matter. Being a force at your position is the key. The likes of JT and ZT, altho were not common household names, you can bet your bottom dollar that opposing offenses sure as hell knew about them.
     
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  15. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Jason Taylor will be first ballot Hall of Fame. I think Zach gets in, but it might take a couple of years.
     
  16. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    But Nick Buonconti only got into the HOF because of his rings. Buonconti was to Butkus what Thomas is to Lewis .i.e. the blue collar efficient player who was every bit as good as the flashy spectacular player.

    I know that the stats don't track this but my feeling is that while Lewis has slightly better 'big play' stats such as interceptions and forced fumbles he played a riskier brand of football which meant that he missed more plays than Zach did. So my gut feeling is that if you added up 'big plays' made and then subtracted 'big plays' given up then Zach was in fact marginally better than Lewis.

    In a similar but different sport, Rugby, tackles missed is considered a more important stat than tackles made.
     
  17. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Same
     
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  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm a huge ZT fan and IMO he was a better individual player than Lewis. That being said, I don't believe he makes the HOF.
     
  19. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I loved Zach but I'm borderline his getting into the HOF. I think the HOF has watered down a bit (though certainly there have been some guys in the past a bit questionable and there are true greats still out there).

    I don't buy into the whole, "Greatest of your generation" as what actually leads to a HOF induction (in practical terms). It doesn't matter that there are players who dominated at the same position. It matters that you were simply an all-time great. Marino was contemporary with Young, Montana, Kelly and Elway (that's one reason he wasn't 1st team all pro several years). They are all in. Even Dan Fouts (HOF) crossed over for 5 seasons + with Dan, Joe, Kelly & Elway.

    Perhaps an even better parallel: Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders & Thurman Thomas were all contemporaries and all three are in the HOF because all three were simply great RBs. If there are 4 or 5 who are just incredible - well then that's a unique thing.

    It all comes down to how dominant a player you actually were. Zach was a great player and had a lot of tackles but he wasn't as dominating a force, imo. Number of tackles doesn't tell the story (sometimes Zach would have a lot of tackles and the D was still getting run over in the running game - his tackles were just further down field and no one else on the team was getting them). It is what it is there. And, quite often the Dolphins D - in the very heyday of Zach and JT - got blown up at the end of the season and in the playoffs when games really counted and people really watched. That wasn't all Zach's fault but that definitely leaves an impression on voters as to how dominating he was.

    JT's sack numbers are what will make a difference in getting into the HOF - but I don't think even he's as big a lock as one thinks - because the overall D was not great.

    I do think Zach could make it eventually. But, right now I think he is borderline and I think that's probably about right.
     

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