Commissioners Office VETOED Manny to FLA

That's why I'm starting to hate the Marlins.

 

Your team can afford far more than it spends. They choose to put a team on the field for 21 mill, they have only themselves to blame for that.

 

For what, having the gall to actually build a team through drafts and careful free agent selections? For being in contention for the division title with a low payroll?

I'm not a Loria fan either, but can we at least admit that the guy has opened the checkbook when warranted?

 

Do not see the problem with compensatory draft picks.

 

Because MLB gives him a decent chunk of money to put a team together and he doesnt use really any of it. And you guys arent the only team that builds through the minor leagues and uses it's money wisely, you guys just refuse too often to use that money imo then want to cry about the teams that do.

 

Given that we've put together a team in contention for the division this year, exactly how much more money should we have spent? Should we have overpaid just for the sake of overpaying? Is our run this year somehow less legitimate because our payroll isn't $80 million?

Spending money for the sake of spending money is moronic.

Please show me one instance of anyone associated with the Marlins crying about the difference in payroll. I don't recall Loria, Samson, Beinfest, or anyone else bashing, say, the Red Sox for having an armada of money-filled dump trucks.

 

I agree spending money for the sake of spending is moronic, but I'm not talking about one year. Though an argument can be made it could help draw more fans, thus increasing revenue and isnt a complete waste. How good were you guys last year, or in '06? How good will you be next year? You guys overachieve and get away with young players who have developed quickly, once they start coming up for FA we'll see if the next group can do the same thing.

It takes nothing away from what this group is doing, but you cant tell me your payroll doesnt contribute to the way you guys yoyo from good to bad.

I was talking about the fans.

 

I agree with this post. I think a big reason that the Marlins don't draw is because of the high turnover of players from year to year. The Marlins FO and scouting departments deserves a lot of credit for drafting and developing some very good players however I think the Marlins management could try harder to keep a lot of these guys instead of shipping them out once they're starting to earn some money. How are fans suppose to support a team when as soon as they bring up a superstar they dump him the next year because of money? Just look at the franchise type players they traded in the past 5 or 6 years. I feel badly for the fans down there that really care about the team, I really do.

 

Sure I can. You do understand most of these guys are on their rookie contracts, right? Not exactly a whole lot of experience on this team. Personally, I would blame the coaching far more than I would the payroll.

Haven't seen any fans talk about any other team's payroll, except the occasional pointing out of how teams like the Yankees have astronomical payrolls with not much more to show for it than the Marlins--and that's only when the argument is broached by someone else.

 

jeez, I wonder why that would be. And I'm aware they're on their rookie contracts, it's the only way you could put a team together for 21 mill, and if they werent on their rookie contracts they'd be on a different team...

We see different things than.

 

What people are forgetting is that our farm teams were going to be raided by the Pirates, and those two picks would have only filled in what we were losing to the Pirates.

 

Hence the lack of loyalty from the fans down here. Many just don't want to get emotionally attached to the team, for fear of being let down once again.

I think the Hanley signing was a step in the right direction, but if the stadium deal is not done by the end of the year, or is totally derailed, I believe you'll see Hanley shipped out before they have to pay the $ 10 million he is owed next year.

 

Yeah I agree if there's no deal in place for a new park there's no way Hanley finishes out his contract in FL.

 

Hey! Who said you were allowed to point out the obvious?

It's amusing how this thread is degenerating into generic criticisms of the Marlins FO, none of which are particularly insightful or have anything to do with the topic. The last page alone could have been done through copy-paste.

 

We all cant be all-star posters like you unfortunately...

 

Clearly.

But really, there are better responses to "Selig rejects trade" than "Loria sucks."

 

Of course this thread could have been closed after the 3rd post, when I simply pointed out that according to the article Manny wouldn't have waived his no trade clause to come to FL so people complaining about the Commissioners Office cancelling the deal is a moot point really.

 

I've said it multiple times. Read the Marlins thread.

The point is that "Loria sucks" isn't really a legitimate response to "Selig rejects trade." It's not even close to being the issue. If Roger Goodell had blocked the JT trade, would "Huizenga sucks" be a topical and legitimate response? Very much doubt that.

 

Build through the draft ? Really ? have you checked Beinfest's draft record ? Its not really glowing, especially his 1st round picks.

The talent pool left by Dombrowski a few years ago is starting to run dry, and now we are left with Beinfest's drafts and his trades (his forte). Unless he can trade Hermida and get something based on his potential, that will not net us a front line prospect. Uggla, will not bring us more than a possible front line prospect, and I am not sure even that.

Unless Beinfest can make some of his wayward drafts become winners, the Marlins are going to become the new Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

Last year Samson opened up his big mouth (typical of him) and complained when the Mariners signed Ichiro Suzuki to a longterm deal.

http://ballhype.com/story/david_samson_and_the_end_of_the_world/

He was immediately called out on it, and if you haven't noticed, Samson, has had a much reduced public role this year, and was striped of his "Team President" role, and that was given to Beinfest (who is not really the GM anymore, but Hill is the GM).

 

You sir made a post worthy of giving you the title

 

Apples and oranges here bro. Huizenga hasn't won because he has not spent money, but because he has had bad jugement on those looking for and leading the talent. Loria is now refusing to spend anything close to a normal payroll, which is not all bad, but for two of the past 3 years he has had a team in contention, and done nothing to bolster them and give them a fighting chance. The players must feel letdown, and its showing right now in their play. They play like a team that is depressed.

 

i don't agree with it being apples and oranges, this thread had nothing to do with Loria, it had to do with the commish vetoing a trade.

 

Thank you.

PMZQ, why can't you post this kind of stuff in the Marlins thread? We need the factual material in there, not in this totally off-topic Marlins bash-fest.

 

You were seriously unfair to many of the draft picks beyond 2004. Aaron Thompson, Jacob Marceaux and Sean West are some of the best prospects in our system. Ryan Tucker is only 21 and is putting up superb numbers in AA.

Brett Sinkbeil has struggled this year but he probably wasnt ready for AA. Many scouts still see him as a good prospect.

I'm not sure why Coghlan was put down because he doesnt have Uggla power. Last I checked only Chase Utley and Dan Uggla have Uggla's power. Not to mention Coghlan is hitting .302 in AA.

Matt Dominguez as of right now a top 100 prospect in all of baseball.

And I cant blame them for drafting Kyle Skipworth if they felt he was the best player on the board. And you wont blame them if he turns out to be Joe Mauer either.

And I'm certainly not mad at them for drafting Mike Stanton, Logan Morrison, Gaby Sanchez, John Raynor, Kyle Kaminska, etc.

 

To the Loria bashing and pocketing of all that revenue.

This loan, combined with the stadium loan could put the Marlins into as much as $150 million in debt by 2011.

To quote a friend of mine who has studied this and is a major in economics:

 

Why did Selig approve the transfer of ownership in the first place, then?

 

This I agree with.

 

And so, finally an appropriate and relevant response.

 

As do many threads, the conversation went off the main topic. Dude don't be anal

 

I'm not being anal. Desides has been trying to make the point that Loria has nothing to do with this thread for a few pages now.

 

The Marlins "bought" a World Series ? How so did they "buy" one and other teams who have mega payrolls escape this "assumption". That crap has always irked me. You mean the Red Sox, by trading for Lowell & Beckett, and other players haven't "bought" their WS titles ? Its just jealousy is all I can see. How about the Diamondbacks ? Did they buy theirs with Schilling & Johnson ? What a crock of cowdip that is.....

Why only call out the Marlins, how about doing the same for the Yankees, Red Sox and Diamondbacks.

And don't forget to include the Cubs if they happen to break the curse this year.