Comparing the Dolphins Starting WRs to the League's Best

When you blame an under thrown ball on hartlines physical limitations, which makes no sense, it's an excuse. An excuse of talent.
And no need to be overdramatic. If you don't like people replying to you, stop replying to them.

 

Excuse the crassness but it's time for a few end-threat type stats to show how embarrassing Hart & Bess's lack of scoring is and how unspecial their stats are.... since you seem to love stats so much.

• Jerricho Cotchery--- more TDs in 12 starts w/ rookie Sanchez than Hart & Bess combined this year.
• Plaxico & Holmes--- 16 TDs last year w/ Sanchez The Terrible. (don't see any pathetic excuse-making needed for them)

Hartline vs Jerricho Cotchery (12 starts with rookie Sanchez)
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
catch%
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
avg [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
TD[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
YAC[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20+
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st downs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st down%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cotchery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]59.8%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.75[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]805[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]282[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]43[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]46.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hartline[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58.8%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.74[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]891[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]190[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]39[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]38.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


****Let's take it a step further & remove each's best game to gain a more ACCURATE picture of what the bulk of their 11 game production is like.
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
catch%[/TD]
[TD]

avg​

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
TD[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
45+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st downs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st down%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cotchery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.71[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]697[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]38[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hartline[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]57.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7.60[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]638[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
**Even with a better rookie QB and no one eating into Hartline's snaps, Brian can't outperform the backup Jerricho Cotchery.



From 2006-2009 the Jets had GARBAGE at WR behind Cotchery. IE: no receivers to steal snaps & production.
But from 2010-present, he's been a backup/complimentary player where he belongs (hint hint).
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]

catches[/TD]
[TD]

catch%[/TD]
[TD]

yards[/TD]
[TD]

avg[/TD]
[TD]

TD[/TD]
[TD]

1st Down​

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st down%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cotchery'06-'09 avg[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]73[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]63.7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]942[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]41.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Shou, if you were instead a Jets fan you'd be foolishly supporting Cotchery's eye-appealing yet inflated numbers as evidence of a great primary receiver despite the Jets passing offense sputtering over those 4 years averaging a 73.6 QBR, 17 TD, 20 INT, 3198 yards, just as our offense has sputtered with Hartline & Bess.


It's ALL perception. The above numbers don't make Cotchery a solid primary receiver no more than Hartline's do his, yet for some crazy reason you seem to prioritize individual stats over total offensive success/passing success. Cotchery had solid "statistical" numbers in 2008 catching 71 for 858 yards & 5 TDs, but that didn't help Favre or NY's passing offense as Brett had a bad year compared to his outstanding 2009 Minnesota season around a vastly improved surrounding cast. But according to your false logic, Cotchery would be a better receiver and greater asset to the offense than Percy Harvin b/c Cotchery's "stats" looked better on paper.

Hartline & Bess have some stats on paper, but the reality is they're no different than Cotchery was in NY. There's absolutely no depth behind H&B to steal snaps & production, and there's no talent to push them to a complimentary role.

Honestly, what do some of you think, that a passing game will disappear to zero stats if the starting duo isn't good? That's insane. No matter who is at receiver there will still be passing stats, and if there's no one to challenge their snaps & production their stats will obviously be further INFLATED. If anything, the stats Hart & Bess have put up are disturbingly bad as a whole considering this all.

/end thread

 

Disagree. Bess n Hartline don't even have paper stats. They are plain Janes and need smaller roles.


End thread x2

 

If you say so, Lucy.... I mean Lucky.

I don't blame the underthrow on Hartline. He's not the one who got pushed back into the QB to prevent Tanny from getting enough on it.

However, I blame Hartline's inability to come back to a ball on Hartline, especially when he sees the throw from the time it leaves Tannehill's hand yet he continues traveling 16 yards downfield. SIXTEEN! The ball wasn't underthrown by 16 goddam yards, not even close to that. If Hartline had a clue how to judge distances & track a ball he would've easily stopped his route and made an easy catch.... but no, time and time again he shows that a catchable underthrow is usually an incompletion for him as he falls down all discombobulated. You treat this like it's some absurd special skill, but it's not. It's a routine play for many receivers.

If a receiver has 16 yards of space & time to position himself for a slight underthrow and he's unable to do so, then his goddam tracking ability is worse than a bloodhound's with his nose chopped off. For you to excuse this ineptitude just b/c the pass wasn't perfectly placed is ridiculous. I love ya, but it's ridiculous.

 

So does that mean this is all over?

 

nah, this is too fun. If you feel like a rebuttal, go for it. I don't mind testing your level of hypocrisy.



Hey, perhaps we should trade for Cotchery to supplant Hartline since he obviously was more productive with an even worse rookie QB.
Then we'll really be rollin'!

 

so now hartline has no depth perception. gotcha. Like I said............

 

You'll get me tuned back in when you address the original post in an objective, unbiased manner. I don't think you're capable, however.

 

No offense, but do you know what a "QB rating" is or what it measures? Because if you did, I don't think you'd be making statements like that.

 

What I know is that the QBs with the highest QB ratings are generally also the ones widely regarded to have the most ability.

 

Thanks for dodging the entire post.


So let me get your honest opinion on a scenario:

• let's pretend we're playing catch (assuming you've played some football or at least backyard stuff).
• Mr Clean offers you a 10,000 bucks to catch a 40 yard pass.
• You're running a vertical & looking back at me the whole way.
• I throw a pass that's short of your current pace & rate of speed. (IE: if you maintain your pace you're gonna run past it.)
• So, with a $10,000 on the line, are you gonna make an effort to slow down or stop running ASAP to make a controlled catch or will you haphazardly continue traveling 16 yards further and then fall down backwards trying to complete it?

Truthfully, do you think all receivers possess the same tracking ability? Have you ever seen an infielder who is great at catching short stuff but runs around in circles trying to catch a shallow outfield pop-up that drops in front of him as he's clumsily falling down? It's no different.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's entirely normal for a starting NFL receiver to consistently not be able to come back on throws despite sufficient time & space to do so.

 

no ones avoiding anything but you. The only thing you've done is post smilies and try to trivialize everything hartline has done as well as flail about because you know you're pretty much full of it. By all means continue.

 

Wow, another non-answer. How convenient.

Why is it when anyone provides objective material that doesn't make Hartline look like Paul Bunyan, Hartline fans resort to useless posts with zero rebuttal?
No, you're obviously right. Hartline has no flaws to his game. He's an All Pro who will get paid $10 million/year in FA due to his tremendous ability and flawless play.


Hey, so if we could swap Hartline for, let's say, Jeremy Maclin, would you do it?

 

no ones avoiding anything but you. Again, in what way are you not trying to compare talent level for tanny and saying that is a factor? Keep flailing and trying to change the subject. Im not everyone else though, I see through your weak tactics.

 

Unlucky, you and Shou have avoided EVERYTHING.

• objective stats comparing Hartline to Cotchery under similar circumstances [rookie QB & no depth behind them]? ignored
• showing Hartline & Bess's combined production over 92% of the season? Ignored
• 2 combined TDs? (QB's fault)
• 3 Hartline TDs in 3 years? (QB's fault)
• Our starting duo being less productive/efficient inside scoring range than Clay, Fasano, Marlon Moore combined? Ignored
• 3+ years of objective stats showing Hartline's downfield production is mediocre [compared to about 50 other WRs]? Ignored
• Cecil Shorts & Henne's 3 TDs in 3 games to rebuke the "It's the QB's fault" argument? Ignored
• Plaxico & Santonio's 16 TDs with Sanchez the Terrible to further dismiss the "It's the QB's fault" argument? Ignored
• Detailed & accurate illustration showing Hartline's inability to track a ball? Ignored
• Using the opening post's corrected & updated stats to show how Hartline & Bess are much inferior to Julio & Roddy? Ignored. Oooh, it's unfair to compare H&B to a quality WR duo!!... (As if we're not allowed to strive for that. ).

 

no one again has avoided anything. You've trivialized him getting close to 1k yards. You've trivialized him getting behind defenses. When you can do that "objectively", then you get to put the roll your eye smilies and such. Till then it's bogus like your arguments. Here, here's a couple more smilies so you can do your self mastabutory exercises some more

 

weak tactics? that's rich coming from a guy who's doing nothing but running his mouth rather than attempting an inkling of a rebuttal.

 

I've rebutted enough. Again tell me how your attempt at trivializing everything at hartline is remotely objective or realistic, then we can talk. Till then keep posting your weak, self compensatory smilies

 

Trivialized him? hahahaaha

I just compared him to a backup receiver [Cotchery] who averaged 1046 yards over 2 years in NY b/c he had no depth behind him and no one to push for his starting job (hence received a buttload of targets). Do you think Cotchery is special and deserves a parade, too? LIke I said, we should trade for Jerricho if yards are all that matters. He's probably got a bigger jock for you to tug on.

How have I trivialized him getting behind defenses?! You're ****ing delusional.
I already did it "objectively" by pulling up ALLLLLL the below receivers' stats since 2009.
Remind me how far down Hartline is on this list. No seriously, my ADD makes me lose focus after about 30 or so.
I've earned the right to as many smilies as your ole lady can dish out.

The below stats looks at how many receptions each receiver has on throws of 31+ yards, 21-30 yards, and total TDs & yards on those throws. I used ESPN, from 2009 - present (with a few noted exceptions). The stats are updated through week 3, so these are what I used.

.............throws of 31+ yards...... 21-30 yards..... TDs........ Yards

Wallace ..................... 2 26....................................... 11................ 20 ............. 1539
DeSean Jackson........ .. 25......................................... 7................ 10 ............. 1460
Marvin Harrison.......... 16 ...................................... 16 ............... 14 ............. 1289.... ('04-'06)
Randy Moss................. 18....................................... 10................ 17 ............. 1171 ... ('07-'09)
Vincent Jackson.......... 13....................................... 17................ 10 ............... 946 ... (39 games)
Andre Johnson............. 13....................................... 14.................. 7.............. 1045 ... (39 games)
AJ Green ....................... 10......................................... 5.................. 6................ 609 ... (20 games)
Calvin Johnson............ 14....................................... 14................ 13 ............. 1124
Meachem...................... 18.......................................... 8................ 15 ............. 1090
Torrey Smith.................. 8.......................................... 6................... 5 ............... 376 ... (19 games)
Jennings........................ 12....................................... 12................... 9 ............. 1041
Steve Smith ................. 13....................................... 12................... 8 ............... 979
Burress.......................... 14........................................ 10................ 10 ............... 945 ...(2005-2007, 3 full years before the shooting)
Nicks............................. 10........................................ 16.................. 8 ............... 942
Fitzgerald....................... 9........................................ 17.................. 8 .............. 795
Malcolm Floyd........... 11........................................ 14.................. 5 ................941
Maclin............................ 9........................................ 14.................. 9 ................845
Marshall......................... 9........................................ 14.................. 5 ................825
Braylon Edwards ..........9.. ......................................14 ................10 ............... 878 ... (first 48 games)
Wayne.......................... 12.......................................... 9................... 8 ............... 704
Denarius Moore............ 6.......................................... 2................... 4 ............... 360 ... (15 games)
Manningham................. 8... .....................................16 ............... 11.................869
Brandon Lloyd............11........................................ 10.................. 6 ................ 771 ... (36 games)
Britt................................ 8 ........................................ 10 ................. 5 ................ 452 ... (32 games)
Garcon........................... 8......................................... 10.................. 9 ................ 622
Dez................................. 7........................................... 7.................. 5 .................409 ... (30 games)
Julio Jones.................... 4........................................... 4.................. 2 .................302 ... (17 games)
Sidney Rice.................. 8............................................5.................. 3 .................662 ... (34 games)
Jordy Nelson................ 7........................................... 7...................7 ..................603 ... (2011 alone)
Nate Washington ....... 5......................................... 15.................. 7 ..................821
Colston ........................ 3......................................... 17.................. 8 ................. 646
Bowe ............................ 4......................................... 14.................. 8 ..................600
Roddy White............... 8........................................... 7.................. 8 ..................511
Santana Moss ............. 7........................................... 8 ................. 7 ...................591 ... (30-33 years old)
Miles Austin ............... 5......................................... 10 ..................8 ................. 586
Boldin........................... 6........................................... 8.................. 5 ................. 464
James Jones ..............4. 4......................................... 11 ................ 9 ..................650
Devery Henderson... .44......................................... 10 ................ 4 ..................605
Mike Williams............. 3......................................... 11 ................ 5 ..................457 ... (35 games)
Crabtree......................... 8........................................... 4................. 4 ................. 480
Breaston........................ 6........................................... 9...................1 .................486
Harvin............................ 5........................................... 8.................. 6 ... .............460 ... (mostly a slot receiver)
Holmes...................... ..33..........................................10 ..................8 .................409
Mark Clayton (Rams)..7........................................... 4.................. 5 ..................452 ... (1st 3 years)
Hartline......................... 6........................................... 7 ................. 0 ..................497 ...
Louis Murphy.............. 4........................................... 8.................. 3 ..................448
Lance Moore................ 3........................................... 9.................. 6 ................. 407
Massaquoi.................... 3........................................... 9.................. 3 ................. 425
Hines Ward................... 3........................................... 9.................. 1 ................. 426 ... (33-35 yrs old)
Driver ............................ 3 .......................................... 5 ................. 2 ................. 526
Jacoby Jones ............. 44........................................... 5 ................. 4 ................. 342
Mike Thomas............. 22......................................... 10 ................ 2 ................. 353
Mike Jenkins................ 2........................................... 8 ................ 2 ................. 342
Austin Collie................ 1......................................... 10 ................ 4 ................. 363 ... (41 games)
Kevin Walter................ 2........................................... 6 ................. 3 ................. 260


​

 

FWIW, I have not seen enough out of Hartline or RTs play to make either of them worth defending. I have seen some good moments from both and some awful moments. Overall they have both been playing below average and its a big reason why our offense has not produced points. Hopefully Philbin (someone else who has had a below average coaching debute) figures out how to get us in the endzone, with or without either or both of them.

 

Honestly Unlucky, with all jokes and stuff aside, what's your interpretation of this?

Hartline vs Jerricho Cotchery (12 starts with rookie Sanchez)
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
catch%
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
avg[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
TD[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
YAC[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20+
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st downs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st down%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cotchery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]59.8%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.75[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]805[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]282[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]43[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]46.7%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hartline[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58.8%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.74[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]891[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]190[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]39[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]38.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Hartline vs Cotchery (removing each player's best game to see how the bulk of their seasons compare)
[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
catch%[/TD]
[TD]

avg​

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
TD[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
20+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
45+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st downs[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
1st down%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cotchery[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]58.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.71[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]697[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]38[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hartline[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]57.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7.60[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]638[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40%

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

While we're at it we should steal Breaston from KC!! Dude had 1000 yards in 2010. Imagine him & Cotchery?!! SUPERBOWL!!

 

Actually if you want to further this line of reasoning, which may actually have some merit, you ought to present an unbiased, objective analysis of how the types of receivers you covet really do make teams win Super Bowls.

Of course the alternative hypothesis is that receivers like Cotchery and Breaston may be interchangeable with the ones who have been on Super Bowl teams. Do we know? I'm happy to learn.

 

I've actually done that in other posts..... I broke down how many SB winning teams featured a HOF receiver. The number is quite high.... which is one reason I'm drastically for upgrading ours.

There's also a strong correlation between HOF QBs and the quality of his surrounding cast.
Here's a list of some old research I did:

(9 of NFL Network's All-Time Top 10 Receiving Corps are on this list. I included a few non HOF QBs who just miss out on the honor.)

Fouts: Charlie Joiner (HOF), Kellen Winslow (HOF), John Jefferson (4x PB), Wes Chandler (4x PB). "NFLN All-Time Top 10 WR Corps"

Van Brocklin: 2x Champ; Elroy Hirsch (HOF), Tom Fears (HOF), Tommy McDonald (HOF), Pete Retzlaff (5x PB) "NFLN Top 10 Corps"

Marino- Duper (3x Pro Bowl), Clayton (5x PB), Moore (1x PB). "NFLN Top 10 WR corps"

Griese: Won 2 SBs with Paul Warfield (HOF) + HOF back Csonka

Unitas: 5x Champ. Raymond Berry (HOF), Lenny Moore (HOF), John Mackey (HOF TE), Jimmy Orr (2x PB), Roy Jefferson (3x PB).

**Earl Morral (backup QB): 2 Championships with Warfield (HOF), Mackey (HOF), Orr (2x PB), Willie Richardson (2x PB),

Aikman: 3 SBs with Michael Irvin (HOF), Jay Novacek (5x PB), Emmitt Smith (HOF)

Terry Bradshaw: 4 SBs with Swann (HOF), Stallworth (HOF), Franco Harris (HOF),

Starr:3x Champ. Carrol Dale (HOF), Max McGee (Packer HOF), Boyd Dowler (60's All Decade Team).

Montana- Won 4 SBs with Rice (HOF), Dwight Clark (2x All Pro), & John Taylor (2x All Pro). "NFLN Top 10 WR Corps"

Steve Young: 1 SB with Rice (HOF), Terrell Owens (future HOF), John Taylor (2x AP)

Staubach: 2 SBs. Bob Hayes (HOF), Drew Pearson (70's All Decade Team), Tony Hill (3x PB), Dorsett (HOF)

Namath- won SB with Don Maynard (HOF) & George Sauer (4x All Star)
*** Maynard & Sauer combined for 2400 yards, 20 avg, and 14 TDs during 69 SB season.

Jurgensen: Bobby Mitchell (HOF), Charley Taylor (HOF), Tommy McDonald (HOF), Pete Retzlaff (5x PB). "NFLN Top 10 WR Corps"

Blanda- 2 straight AFL Championships w/ Charley Hennigan (AFL HOF) & Brill Groman (1x All Star)
*** Hennigan & Groman combined for 5100 yards, 47 TDs, and 20 avg those 2 years!!!

Lamonica- 1 Championship. Fred Biletnikoff (HOF), Billy Cannon (2x AP), Warren Wells (2x PB), Raymond Chester (4x PB).
*** 16 TDs in first 4 years in Buffalo.... then 145 TDs & 6 PBs next 6 years in Oakland.

Stabler- 1 SB with Biletnikoff (HOF), Dave Casper (HOF), Cliff Branch (HOF nominee). "NFLN Top 10 All Time WR corps"

Plunkett- 2 SBs with Casper (HOF), Branch (HOF nominee), Chester (4x PB), Christensen (5x PB), Chandler (5200 yards, 48 TDs)

Theismann: 1 SB. Art Monk (HOF), Charlie Brown (2x PB), Gary Clark (4x PB) "NFLN Top 10 Receiving Corps"
*** Doug Williams & Mark Rypien: Won 2 SBs with this trio (plus Ricky Sanders)

Elway: 2 SBs. Shannon Sharpe (HOF), Anthony Miller (5x PB), Rod Smith (3x PB), Ed McCaffrey (1x PB), Vance Johnson (5700 yards/37 TDs).

Peyton Manning: 1 SB. Harrison (2000 All Decade Team), Wayne (5x PB), Clark (1x AP). "NFLN Top 10 WR Corps"

Kelly: 4 SB appearances. James Lofton (HOF), Andre Reed (7x PB), Thurman Thomas (HOF)

Kurt Warner- won SB with Bruce (4x PB), Holt (7x PB), Faulk (HOF); "NFLN Top 10 All Time WR corps"
Kurt Warner- almost won another with Fitzgerald (6x PB), and Boldin (3x PB).

Moon- Earnest Givens (2x PB), Drew Hill (2x PB), & Haywood Jeffires (3x PB).
*** Best WR foursome in NFL at the time per Wade Phillips. Moon did little before their arrival.

Otto Graham: Dante Lavelli (HOF), Mac Speedie (40's All Decade Team).

Tittle- Del Hoffner (60's All-Decade Team)
*** played together in straight 3 championships. Best 3 years of Tittle's career.

Brady: Troy Brown (1x All Pro), Wes Welker (3x All Pro), Randy Moss (7x PB), Gronk (future HOF), Hernandez (best Hback in NFL)

Favre: 1 SB. Sterling Sharpe (5x All Pro), Antonio Freeman (Packer HOF), Donald Driver (3x PB), Greg Jennings (1x PB), Sidney Rice (1x PB).

Esiason: 1SB appearance. Cris Collinsworth (3x PB), Eddie Brown (1x PB), Tim McGee (5200 yards, 28 TDs)

*** there's some outstanding running backs on this list, too.

A few notables:
McNabb: Best season was his only full season with Terrell Owens--- 2004 Offensive POY; 32 TDs; 104 QB rating (20pts higher than career avg).

Jeff Garcia: his 63 TDs in 2000-01 (w/ Terrell Owens) were most by any QB during that time. Best TD production w/o TO was 13.

Jon Kitna (76.6 previous career QBR): in Dallas's potent 2010 offense (Dez, Austin, Witten), Kitna posted an 88.9 QBR and scored 27.8 points per game (2nd best in the NFL) during his 10 starts.

 

I've said a hundred times---- quarterbacks are only as good as their surrounding talent allows them to be. If you any of you guys think these QBs didn't have WRs making MANY plays for them and turning some mediocre games into things of beauty in the stat column b/c of it then I don't know what to say TBH.

Only QB not on that list IIRC is Tarkenton, but he was saved by his mobility b/c without it he was likely a league leader in coverage sacks.

 

And how many Super Bowl-winning teams did not feature a HOF receiver? What is the percentage of teams with and without one?

 

I believe it's less than half but I don't remember the numbers. I'd have to find it.

 

Well Jesus, if it's less than half but more than let's say a third, that's not a very good argument for needing one.

 

No, it was like less than half the teams had one. The opposite end of the spectrum you're on.
There's like 36 SBs with a HOF WR or TE HOF just on the list above. I know there's a few more than that.

 

Ah, well that's an even poorer argument, then.

 

how 'bout the argument that they help QBs reach their underlying HOF potential?..... along with the high number of HOF WRs in SBs.

 

Keep posting stats bro. But yes, you trivialize what he does. Someone points out a good play, you say no it's because a break down in defense. Never mind he was able to exploit said break down. That is the very definition of trivializing. The fact you don't see it, would make you the delusional one. Till you do see it, everything you post is noise.​

 

They both help each other. It's a system, that's what entities of a system do.

 

We've already had this argument. Please state in a quantitative manner, why you believe yards have no effect on the game. K thanks.

 

Tannehill + Hartlline#1WR = HOF

Buy your bus pass for Canton now, Lucy.

 

I'm not really sold either way on hartline nor on Tanny. I do think it is unnecessary to make him appear worse then he is though. I do think he is a good wr.

 

Huh? Why does this pass the statistically significant test? You can't just cherry pick circumstances without actually quantifying the significance.

 

Oh, they do have an affect on the game, especially when they involve the player crossing over the goal line..... or getting closer to it once you cross midfield (don't believe you get a half a touchdown for crossing the 50). I already posted the stats showing what the YARDS look like for the bulk of the season (92%), which are less than inspiring for a team's top receiver..... buuuuuuut apparently you and the other Hartline-huggers© believe one game of effective yardage translates into an entire season of the same. So you see, if anyone believes yards have no affect on the game, it's the Hartline-hugger bunch for downplaying the 92% bulk of his season. And that doesn't broach the touchdown subject..... or the playmaking ability subject.... or the disappearance inside the opponent 40 subject. No, to you, the only need of a team's top receiver is to help move the chains over the first 60 yards of the field in this game or that.

Seriously, just play along here---- If you're told that Receiver X has 7 games this year (58% of his season) at a 37 yard avg, 45% catch rate, 6.5 avg, and 0 TDs, what would your initial thoughts be? "Probably a backup"?..... "Is he an inline tight end?"?.... "Does he play for the Jets?"?..... "Has he got clubbed feet?"?


BTW, we actually win more games the less we throw Hartline's way.
5 wins: 5.6 targets/game
7 losses: 10.6 targets/game