Completing The WR/TE Puzzle

I'm confident that the WR puzzle is complete, but I have less faith that Clay completes the TE puzzle. I haven't seen enough of Clay to really make pronouncements about him at this point though. I'm just not sure whether he has enough speed to threaten the seam. If he can be effective doing that then I would say that part of the puzzle is complete. If not then it limits what I see as a big part of our offense. The TE seam pass is one of the easier throws for most QBs and IMO Henne in particular.

On the WRs though I like the way the top four complement each other. I think Bess and Marshall are arguably among the best at working the underneath zones and that Hartline and (hopefully) Gates can be effective at keeping the safeties back to create space and hitting the occasional long one. I'd also love to see Gates be the kind that could take a few hitches the distance like he was able to do in college. That's always the question of course, can he replicate that at the next level?

I wouldn't count on anyone picked in the 4th round or later to be a contributor. Hopefully they can be, but its not something the team should count on.

"rafael wrote:

I'm confident that the WR puzzle is complete, but I have less faith that Clay completes the TE puzzle. I haven't seen enough of Clay to really make pronouncements about him at this point though. I'm just not sure whether he has enough speed to threaten the seam. If he can be effective doing that then I would say that part of the puzzle is complete. If not then it limits what I see as a big part of our offense. The TE seam pass is one of the easier throws for most QBs and IMO Henne in particular.

On the WRs though I like the way the top four complement each other. I think Bess and Marshall are arguably among the best at working the underneath zones and that Hartline and (hopefully) Gates can be effective at keeping the safeties back to create space and hitting the occasional long one. I'd also love to see Gates be the kind that could take a few hitches the distance like he was able to do in college. That's always the question of course, can he replicate that at the next level?

Clay's speed is right there with DJ Williams and Green. That "should" be enough to get the job done.

May he "Float like a butterfly and Sting like a bee." :)

"Stringer Bell wrote:

I wouldn't count on anyone picked in the 4th round or later to be a contributor. Hopefully they can be, but its not something the team should count on.

I'm not counting on a whole lot from Gates this year. If he can give us better field position and maybe break a couple as a KR, and be the #4 WR making some plays while opening things up for others, I'm happy. I don't think that's much to ask for.

i think Gates will be worked into the mix slowly as a WR, but all-in as a returner .... hope would be that he'd start to contribute by mid-season ....

Gates doesn't need to do much to contribute a lot, in my opinion. The guy was picked due to his speed. Stick him back at the KR spot and hope he can help our average starting position (assuming he gets to return some with the newer kickoff rules). Assuming he gets some run as a wideout, I say you have him run fly patterns from the slot. He will burn most nickel CB's and eventually, if effective, they are going ot have to keep a safety on him as well, which helps clear up the middle for guys like Marshall, Bess and Fasano.

We used the bubble screen a bit to Bess last year, which made sense since his shifftiness helped him garner some yards. I would like to see those go to Gates this year with Marshall on the same side to block for him. If he gets a spec of daylight, he is gone. His speed translates in the NFL to where he isn't going to take long to get to his top speed and he is ismply faster than everyone else.

"Samphin wrote:

Gates doesn't need to do much to contribute a lot, in my opinion. The guy was picked due to his speed. Stick him back at the KR spot and hope he can help our average starting position (assuming he gets to return some with the newer kickoff rules). Assuming he gets some run as a wideout, I say you have him run fly patterns from the slot. He will burn most nickel CB's and eventually, if effective, they are going ot have to keep a safety on him as well, which helps clear up the middle for guys like Marshall, Bess and Fasano.

We used the bubble screen a bit to Bess last year, which made sense since his shifftiness helped him garner some yards. I would like to see those go to Gates this year with Marshall on the same side to block for him. If he gets a spec of daylight, he is gone. His speed translates in the NFL to where he isn't going to take long to get to his top speed and he is ismply faster than everyone else.

I'm with you, I say with that speed he should contribute immediately. I hate it when guys get caught up with route running and saying a guy is raw.
It used to be that Marino would send Duper on a fly route just by looking at him. It should be the same way with this kid. If he's single covered, send him deep...

What's more is that it's not like this kid is a beanpole. 6 feet, 190 pounds and solidly built, he's a faster, less polished Chris Chambers with a bigger vertical.

"Pandarilla wrote:

I'm with you, I say with that speed he should contribute immediately. I hate it when guys get caught up with route running and saying a guy is raw.
It used to be that Marino would send Duper on a fly route just by looking at him. It should be the same way with this kid. If he's single covered, send him deep...

What's more is that it's not like this kid is a beanpole. 6 feet, 190 pounds and solidly built, he's a faster, less polished Chris Chambers with a bigger vertical.

Route running is by far the most important part of being a NFL receiver. If having speed was enough why wasn't Moore, Wallace, Chris Williams or any other of the speed receivers brought into Miami over the last few years.

hell if all is needed is speed then the Raiders would have the top receiving corps every year.

Clay might bring something interesting to the table. he is a man of many talents & if used creatively could make an immediate impact in our offense. he can attack defenses in a variety of ways: FB, TE or as an HB or RB coming out of the backfield. Clay is apparently very explosive, especially in the passing offense.

"Samphin wrote:

Gates doesn't need to do much to contribute a lot, in my opinion. The guy was picked due to his speed. Stick him back at the KR spot and hope he can help our average starting position (assuming he gets to return some with the newer kickoff rules). Assuming he gets some run as a wideout, I say you have him run fly patterns from the slot. He will burn most nickel CB's and eventually, if effective, they are going ot have to keep a safety on him as well, which helps clear up the middle for guys like Marshall, Bess and Fasano.

We used the bubble screen a bit to Bess last year, which made sense since his shifftiness helped him garner some yards. I would like to see those go to Gates this year with Marshall on the same side to block for him. If he gets a spec of daylight, he is gone. His speed translates in the NFL to where he isn't going to take long to get to his top speed and he is ismply faster than everyone else.

Agree Gates does not have to contribute much, but I feel he does not have to be able to do much to contribute. Besides KR, simply getting behinds a CB will force a S back just in case even if he couldnt catch a cold. Every once in a while he might, see Ginn : )

Well, I can see Gates as the #5 Wr as the KR, if he shows enough he jumps ahead of Wallace and Moore.

For me, the real battle is #2 and #3 Te, I like Shuler but Clay can do more, and we have no "pure" blocking Te as of yet, which means we will see camp battles aplenty between Shuler/Epps/Mastrud with Clay moving all over the field.

CClay's role is whatever he can learn to do properly in the offense and he will have to play ST as well.

speed: have Sheets (RB) & Gates (WR) that can open the game up & return the ball on special teams

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Route running is by far the most important part of being a NFL receiver. If having speed was enough why wasn't Moore, Wallace, Chris Williams or any other of the speed receivers brought into Miami over the last few years.

hell if all is needed is speed then the Raiders would have the top receiving corps every year.

The thing is he doesn't just have speed. He's got exceptional speed...He's an exceptional athlete who knows how to go up and get it like a rebound or pass.
I just don't want to see a wasted year like Wake had. Let's find out if this kid can play or not.

Sheets is a long shot imo .

"dolfan22 wrote:

Sheets is a long shot imo .

Agreed, as much as I like Sheets, he has to show a ton in TC to make the team, he has to show his achilles is healed, he has to show he can block, he has to show he can return kicks, love the speed he brings to the table but reality is he has to show more than usual.

Unless Ireland is just going Kamikaze and relying on him to be the scat back to save the coin for a Sproiles.

"Pandarilla wrote:

The thing is he doesn't just have speed. He's got exceptional speed...He's an exceptional athlete who knows how to go up and get it like a rebound or pass.
I just don't want to see a wasted year like Wake had. Let's find out if this kid can play or not.

He is slower than Ginn.

The Raiders also have wide recievers with excellent speed and still not the best receivers in the game.

he is an exceptional athlete and if he learns how to run routes he will be an amazing receiver.

This is the NFL. There is a reason why not all 4.3 wide receivers make it. I am looking forward to seeing Gates play. I just do not have high hopes that he is going to tear it up as a wide receiver his first season.

"padre31 wrote:

Agreed, as much as I like Sheets, he has to show a ton in TC to make the team, he has to show his achilles is healed, he has to show he can block, he has to show he can return kicks, love the speed he brings to the table but reality is he has to show more than usual.

Unless Ireland is just going Kamikaze and relying on him to be the scat back to save the coin for a Sproiles.

IMO he also would have to show he can play on special teams , and not just returns.

Haven't seen him enough to dismiss him , we will add a speed back , I am virtually certain of that ( I have said before though ) so if he plays well and fast , he has a shot , albeit a long one.

"dolfan22 wrote:

IMO he also would have to show he can play on special teams , and not just returns.

Yep, he will have to play well enough to fill p cobbs old role at least, he COULD be a #2 Rb but will have to show a tonne.(Canadian spelling eh?)

Haven't seen him enough to dismiss him , we will add a speed back , I am virtually certain of that ( I have said before though ) so if he plays well and fast , he has a shot , albeit a long one.

Well, now what if he is a beast on Returns and breaks ankles as the Rb? I can see him being a comet on the jet sweep out of the WC, that 4.3 speed hitting the edge of the defense at 210 pds or more..you can see why they kept him around.

"PHINANALYST wrote:

i think Gates will be worked into the mix slowly as a WR, but all-in as a returner .... hope would be that he'd start to contribute by mid-season ....

TBH, I don't want that. I think he can come in right away and contribute. I want him to compete for a returner job, but at the same time, I think his potential is endless at WR. I think he is a huge piece to Henne's development. Not only does he give him another option to throw to, but he can be that deep threat we've been looking for and he can be used on screens to open up big plays.

I want us to throw him into the mix right away and start developing him now.

Gates will be our #3 before the season ends imo.

"Makados10 wrote:

Gates will be our #3 before the season ends imo.

Who is he replacing, if you don't mind me asking? He's gotta run more routes than a bubble, deep out (which videos show he needs help with) and Go to make it past the guys ahead of him right now. I would be surprised if he is that high up.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

He is slower than Ginn.

The Raiders also have wide recievers with excellent speed and still not the best receivers in the game.

he is an exceptional athlete and if he learns how to run routes he will be an amazing receiver.

This is the NFL. There is a reason why not all 4.3 wide receivers make it. I am looking forward to seeing Gates play. I just do not have high hopes that he is going to tear it up as a wide receiver his first season.

I think he may be faster than Ginn. In fact, I hope he races Chris Johnson. Didn't you read that he ran the 4.37 at the combine with a groin injury. This dude is a 4.2 guy.

"alen1 wrote:

Who is he replacing, if you don't mind me asking? He's gotta run more routes than a bubble, deep out (which videos show he needs help with) and Go to make it past the guys ahead of him right now. I would be surprised if he is that high up.

Yeah, he clearly needs help with the deep out:chuckle:

Maybe Hartline can tutor him on the fly:lol:

Or maybe Sparano can "fix" his running style:sidelol:

Nah, I'm sure our coaching staff will annoy the **** out of him and fleece him of his confidence.

while the excitement surrounding Gates and the kudos Boom and the gang gave him are awesome ... the kid has a ways to go to be a consistent contributor THIS year. it's asking a lot from him ...

outside of speed, i see NO parallel with Ginn .... Ginn was scared ... there is no indication thus far that this kid is -- which i can't even express how refreshing that is after watching and debating Ginn for 3 years.

saying he is better than Knox ... well, he might be 'tools' wise -- and we can surely hope so, but asking for that out of the box is not prudent.

i like others think he will start to become relevent by mid season ... relevent meaning, actually being a target and focus of some playcalling - vice just having the speed to get deep and open posing a threat (a la Ginn). also believe that his value to us immediately is in STs ....

i hope we go after Lockette as a UDFA .... to have '2' speedsters in the fold ....