HIs stock is rising from what some outlets are reporting. I like what i've seen from him. Would be happy to take him at 25, if he still on the board.

 

I did a similar thread in the Club forum.
IMO he's the top Rush LB in the draft with Team Captain, All Pro, and potential HOF written all over him. ;)

A lot of people see him as a risk b/c he's only played 1 year DE, but that's one of the very reasons I'm extremely high on him. He's proven that he can make a position change and dominate at it very quicky. It took him all but one offseason to do so. LOL.

Add to that, that all the rush LBs except for Sintim will be making a position change, he has proven to me that he was shortest learning curve out of all of them.

Abstract intangibles (leadership, heart, desire to win and be the best, motor, character, etc) are TOP NOTCH and unparalled in my book.

 

Barwin might be a good pick, especially considering his versatility. But, I think he's a bit of a reach at #25. He should be there for us to consider in the 2nd round.

G

 

That's just it. I think you may be picking up on a lot of internet hype. Most of the mocks/projections I have seen to date do not have him coming off the board in the first round.

Of course, come draft day all bets are off. ;)

 

I read somewhere today that he is on New Englands radar and they are really interested in taking him. I hope we do take him at 25 because I have a hunch he is going to be a good one and will be gone off the board somewhere in the first round.

 

I really hate how New England managed to snag that early second. You know they will take someone we have been looking hard at.

 

What the analysts think have nothing to do with what the scouts/coaches see, and we'll never see their big boards to find out. LOL. They could care less where the draftnik community has someone.

Look at Jerod Mayo....or every WR last year. ;)

If you guys want someone who really seems to assess players/talent like a top FO, then pay $9.99 to join TheHuddleReport.com. Their senior analyst, Drew Boylehart, watches a ton of film and calls it like he sees it. He has the ability to really look into a player for much more than overall talent. He sees things that no one else sees...and a lot of aspects you would never even think of. He says he can see into a players soul, and I totally believe him.

You see a lot of desparity around February between mainstream analysts and his player rankings/ assessment....and by end March the curve seems to coincedentally and congruently shift toward how he values a player as each of his player profiles come out. He spends a lot of time evaluating a player through out their career, so it takes some time for his profiles to be released.
My point to all of this....is some of these gems like Connor don't show up on the radar till weeks before the draft, after word has had a chance to spread.
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Or....one could visit Simon Clancy's FREE breakdown of Connor Barwin in his week 5 draftwinds breakdown on the Sun Sentinel. He even interviewed him after having watched every snap he's taken.

Barwin is a special talent that I hope continues to be overlooked. If we could get him with 2a or 2b, I'd be elated. He's got great hands and explosiveness. Those are the two things I look for in a pass rushing linebacker, and he's got it in spades.

 

I've had him in the 1st round for 3 months and to the Pats at 23 for half of it.....and people laughed at me! LOL. I really feel he is a top 10 talent, and if NE is going to take him, then I hope the Packers take him at 9 first :D
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Just curious, why do you like English and Matthews better? English is a projection from a 4-3 DE, same as Barwin and isn't as athletic or versatile as Barwin. Matthews did less in his one season as a starter than Barwin did, and Clay was surrounded by a lot more talent.

 

I agree. Drew's profiles are worth the subscription price to that site. Don't say his name too loud around here though, some guys still like to hammer him because he suggested in 2004 before the draft that Carey would make a good center. That one comment is enough for some guys to completely disregard the guy's opinions forever. Just like some who will disregard Russ Lande forever just because he likes Sanchez better than Stafford and had him #1 over in his top 99 for a while.
The thing of it is, EVERYONE makes mistakes when it comes to analyzing college players before a draft. But, some who do so, only want to point out other people's missed calls. No draft analyst is always correct, whether they work for an NFL team or post on a web site.

 

Totally agree with all of that.
The Pats seem to make a lot of picks that go against conventional wisdom. Most were surprised by the Mayo pick last year and also the Logan Mankins pick a few years ago. The thing to me is though, when the Pats make a surprise early pick, it usually pans out.

 

Everyone but Sintim will have to make the switch, including Mathews. The only thing Connor's 1 year tells me regarding the entire bunch is that he can learn a new position pretty damn fast! LOL. :yes: That's the guy I want! You can tack a question mark onto everyone else on that list as to how much they can learn in 1 year b/c we don't know how long it took them to learn what they know now in order to make them as good as they are now.

If Mathews, for instance, will be a furure impact player.....but it takes him 5 years to get there, then I don't want him when I know Barwin makes a quick transition. This "one year" for Barwin is actually a confidence builder when drafting him, not a detractant. :wink2:

 

I've posted this a few times... but has anyone gone back to the 2nd half of the Senior Bowl to watch the series when Barwin is at TE going head to head against Mathews? Barwin absolutely manhandled him. There is no way that I take Clay over Connor! :no: LOL.

 

Drew is awesome! He sees things in more than just football talent. I sent him my 1st round grade Connor Barwin profile to him back in January before he released his own.... originally he thought he was a 3rd rounder before he had a chance to really break down his film. Then after he broke down Barwin's game, he changed his mind to absolute 1st rounder through and through.... said he reminded him of Ted Hendricks. Good comparison I think. :wink2:

We'll never know about Carey.... who knows- if they transitioned him to center like Drew said, maybe right now he is holding his own against Wilkford and Jenkins and is a frequent visitor to Hawaii the end of every season. The last I was aware, Vernon hasn't quite lived up to the expectations of his draft status. LOL. SHHH. After all, the Ravens did the same thing with Jason Brown... and that was after Drew mentioned moving Carey in order to become the new wave of dominant centers. I guess his vision about the future of massive, mauling centers was right all along. LOL.

 

Matthews has spent time in a 3-4 alignment as a strong-side linebacker. USC plays a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and he's part of the rotation there. Not as much as Sintim but he's played some.

 

Good point. I agree...but I was more referring to being an every down started in that position along with all the reps it brings. ;)
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Alen....at least getting some reps is better than none, right.... And will no doubt help shorten his transition some IMO ;)
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Totally agree.
DJ made a good point in another post when I said that I thought Barwin is "Zach Thomas".... but only taller, faster, and more athletic. I agree DJ, maybe we should move Connor to ILB where he can use his insane instincts and ability to read a QB when his field of vision is directly in front of him. After all, despite all his athletic ability/Combine numbers, it's his instincts that are the best part of his game. Put him on the right, and you impede his view of the QB's eyes.... put him on the left and he can only disrupt plays/passes to his side.... put him in the middle and he can be a menace in every direction!

If the only knock on Barwin is being slightly tight in the hips, then put him at insidebacker where he can excel both laterally or straight ahead. After all, he positions himself extremely effectively with very little wasted movements. BBall drills probably helped in that regard a bit. His arms are long, coupled with his vertical will probably disrupt a ton of passes when he can see the QB and diagnose the play without actually having a tackle on him at all times as he seems to dominate when he's in space. I guarantee that teams would be running very few screens on us, and he would take away dump offs and short/ intermediate routes across the middle like Nnamdi shuts down corners...and with Connor on the field- broken plays should stay broken.

The reason we won 11 games last year was due to a great turnover margin. If we wan't to keep that going, then we need a big time playmaker in the middle to make up for Channing.

 

On PATH TO THE DRAFT last week Charlie Casserly said Barwin is too raw of a player to take in the 1st round. I hope most GMs are thinking likewise and the Dolphins have a shot at Barwin in the 2nd round.

I would be cool with taking him in the 1st round too. However I would love it if we could get a CB, WR, ILB, or NT in the 1st round and still get Barwin at #44.

 

Agree with you there.

Another name that I think won't have a difficult time transitioning to the weakside spot in a 3-4 alignment is Georgia Tech's Michael Johnson. I know many don't like him and I'm not the biggest fan of his when you put everything together but when it comes to talent, he's top notch. He's also very fluid for a man his height. I think he's a guy who needs to pack on quite a bit of weight though because he gets jarred back by stronger OT's, receivers and running backs. He's at 266 now but he's lacking the strength in the upper body IMO. At times, you'll see him throw down Tackles such as he did against Ciron Black and then you'll see him get thrown around like he's a rag doll. Nevertheless, that's a guy, when motivated, can be very good. Question is, when is he motivated? Its a weekly issue with him.

 

I'm not campaigning for the selection of Michael Johnson; I was merely saying that he is a guy who could make the transition as an weak side linebacker in a 3-4 alignment.

 

I completely agree with you on Johnson...about all of it including not being one of his biggest fans.
I feel he has the talent to be a #1 overall pick to Detroit, but hasn't lived up to the bill. Is that unaccurate?

IMO, if most teams also feel he is a top talent yet he's on the board at 25.... that means that about a dozen teams passed on him for a reason. If that's the case, I don't want him. Is this wrong logic? LOL.

 

IMO, that's inaccurate. We are not talking about a great college football player and a guy that dominated at his level of competition. Johnson flashed potential all over the place but didn't do it on a consistent basis. He's still not a guy whose filled out his frame in my opinion and I still don't think he sets the edge very well. He's OK at it but not great. I'm sure some will disagree with me. He's got tremendous potential and could be a Julius Peppers clone early in his career, if he hits the weight room hard and further expands his game. However, he can also be a complete flop due to motivational issues. IMO, the talent and potential is worthy of a top ten pick but not number one. As you can tell, I'm on the fence with him. Love what he can bring but man he has some issues. And next year, we will likely see the same thing with Ole Miss's freak of nature Greg Hardy; a player that I absolutely LOVE but he's got many issues. Getting a bit off-topic here but next year, there's going to be a nice group of conversion players too and one that could be next years Lawrence Sidbury is James Ruffin of Northern Iowa.

I think its a wrong logic. The reason is because those other teams are looking at several different things then you are. They have different needs, different set of standards for a character evaluation (i.e. Atlanta and Cincinnati), different thoughts on the player and their thoughts on how the coaches can relate to the player as well as possibly turn his team around. Some teams may feel that they can't change his habits while a team like the Dolphins for example may think that they can turn Johnson around by being strict and harder on him. There's many factors that come into play and if you base your decisions off of what someone else thought, you won't be successful when it comes to drafting because you want to form your own opinion on the prospect and how he relates to your team, not others.

 

Thats all that I was looking for. Top 10 will suffice for my argument. LOL. I'm not trying to make a case that he should be #1. Far from the opposite. :wink2: I was just trying to establish first that he has greater talent/potential then the #25 pick would suggest. Personally, I wouldn't draft him with our 2nd round pick.

I'm not worrying about what Miami feels they can do with him. LOL. You're reading too much into where I was going with this. If a player's a top 10 talent, you don't get passed over for someone less talented unless there is a reason. That was my point. Take Orakpo- he's a top 10 DE/OLB talent. What are the chances he lasts till Miami? None. There are too many teams who need DE/OLB this draft to let him fall that far. That's the same thing I'm saying about Johnson. If you're a top 10 talent and teams who need a DE/OLB like KC, Cleveland, Oakland, GB, San Fran, Buffalo, Denver, Houston, Chicago, Detroit, and NE all pass on a Top 10 talent.... then that throws up a red flag IMO. That means that 11 teams passed on him, some of which will have drafted a lesser talented DE/OLB instead of Michael.

 

I'd take him in the second round if I needed a weak side rusher.

Gotcha.

I think it goes back to what I was saying, in terms of teams passing him up or selecting him based off the character evaluation. If a team thinks they can turn the guy around, he could go early. If they don't, then they won't select him. They believe that he won't change much and want to go with a safer pick. Personally, I'd consider taking him at #25 because of the player he is. I'd consider it.

 

True, however there is a point reached where a Front Office simply must believe in their internal player evluations, it's quite simple to take "numbers" players, but the plain fact is the difference in actual numbers is usually very small.

Compare Sintim to Maybin for example, add Barwin into the mix and the spread is usually less then 5% in any individual drill "he ran a 4.78 v a 4.69 for the other guy" at some point a organization is either a slave to the numbers (and countless busts have been based solely on numbers) or they have an eye for talent.

Look at the teams picking in the top 10 this year, the majority consistently pick in the top 10, there is a reason for that ToddsPhins.

 

I completely agree with part of what you say about forming your own opinions. The other part is where we differ. If 11 teams pass on a guy who has the potential to go top 10, then that's confirming the same thing that I already feel about him- that he's a risk. I don't base my decision on what they do or don't do, but it helps strengthen my belief if a handfull of other evaluators feel the same way. I know a lot of coaches have a God complex and feel they can change players, but personally I'd never take that approach with a 1st round player... there's still an entire draft of talented players left whom I wouldn't have to worry about changing habits with.

 

I agree with you when it comes to changing a players habits. I think its very difficult to do that. However, some don't.

 

I completely understand what you're saying Padre. People are reading too deeply into my belief and over analizing it. .... so I'm just going to stop with the subject. LOL.

 

That's all I was really referring to... that if a top 10 talent who has some question marks about his game lasts till #25 when there are a ton of teams who need a top pass rusher, then it would lead me to believe that they feel the same way that I do- that he is a risk. Hence if that many teams feel he is a risk, then I don't want him at 25 b/c I'm not into wanting to change players habits, even if he is a top 10 talent.

Over the course of 10 years I'd rather not take players I'd have to worry about changing and end up with 50 solid players but no superstars... than thinking I can change players and end up with 25 solid players, 10 stars, and 15 busts. LOL.