1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Could have had Sharper instead of Wilson

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jetssuck, Oct 25, 2009.

Tags:
  1. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Caution.........reading this is about as painful as swallowing glass



    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...-gibril-wilson-could-be-dolphins-free-safety/
     
    Rhody Phins Fan and CashInFist like this.
  2. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Hindsight is 20/20
     
  3. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Not when it's starting to develop into a pattern of too many crappy FA moves.....which it has.

    We've done well in the draft but in FA, there's MUCH room for improvement...
     
  4. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

    1,299
    433
    83
    Oct 16, 2009
    Agreed,I have seen this happen to us many times already where we could have had somebody instead of somebody else. We just have to try and win with what we have. Also,who knows maybe,hopefully Wilson can get his game together.
     
  5. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Banned

    1,358
    234
    0
    Oct 8, 2009
    I have a feeling that Gerbil and/or Bell might make a play today. Don't crucify me if I'm wrong though.
     
  6. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,862
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    Randy Moss, Drew Brees, Anquain Boldin, where does it end???
     
  7. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

    4,749
    1,940
    113
    Oct 9, 2009
    New York
    So we gave the Saints Brees AND Sharper? If they win the Superbowl can we have half the trophy? They owe us! Let us win!
     
  8. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

    4,749
    1,940
    113
    Oct 9, 2009
    New York
    Don't forget how we giftwrapped and handed Wes Welker over to the archrival Patriots for nothing! Thanks Cameron! Everytime I see Brady throw a pass to Welker I cry a little inside. That could've been out #1WR right there. I'm imagining Henne to Welker...Dolphins will you ever make the right moves outside the draft?
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    106,201
    61,099
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    sharper performing at this level at his age gives me more proof that the average age of a nfl player in his prime is going up...30 to 34 is the new 28 to 32.

    The evolution of the human body meeting NFL experience equals a valuable football player these days..
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  10. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

    10,688
    4,955
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Live from the Internet.
    I truly do not understand point of these threads.
    Really don't.
     
    Stitches, first&goal, Samphin and 3 others like this.
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,976
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009

    Not really. For all the bad signings, the FO has made same very, very good signings. Pennington, Grove, Smiley, Randy Starks, Davonee Bess and Dan Carpenter.
     
  12. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

    1,333
    457
    0
    Aug 4, 2008
    I think the reason the FO looks bad at FA is because they are signing a lot of stop gap players and really building the team through the draft.

    Wilson, right now, it's a miss. Maybe some improvement in the future, but it has been horrible. We did draft a safety so the FO obviously wasn't TOO sold on Wilson. I assume he was just a stop gap signing. Similar to Greene; that CB we signed and cut this year. The FO obviously knew they were going to draft at least 1 CB in the draft. So Green was never going to be around long term.

    Is 5 years 25 million deal that big? I honestly don't know. Peppers for the Panthers is getting $17 million this season alone ( he's got the franchise tag ).

    Our FO has done a pretty good job overall. You are right the FA signing's haven't been amazing, but they have done a decent job. Remember Smiley and Grove are FA. Pennington WHO WAS HUGE for us and won the AFC east.

    Just my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions :)
     
  13. F.O

    F.O New Member

    124
    55
    0
    Sep 26, 2009
    I don't remember a single Miami fan calling to sign Darren Sharper.. So threads like these are just silly.

    Sharper, at 34 years of age, signed a one-year cheap deal with NO.. If teams felt he was this awesome player at this stage of his career, he would have signed long term.. Not even his last team thought he was worth it. I know he made the pro bowl in 07, but we have all seen players fall off the map at age 32 and 33 (it happens to the best of them).

    Sharper benefits on the Saints because he can roam back there as opposing teams are down 20 points and need to pass all game long.. So he has gotten a ton of opportunities that the rest of the league's safeties haven't gotten.

    To me, Jabari Greer has been a better UFA signing.. He has been great for the saints.. Greer covering so well one-on-one allows Sharper to roam back there..
    Tracy Porter and UFA signing Jabari Greer have been good for the Saints at the corners so far this season.. So this helps Sharper roam back there.

    But keep in mind they also played bad or inexperienced QB's like Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Kevin Kolb and Trent Edwards in 4 of their 5 games this season.

    That also has made their secondary(and defense overall) look better than it really is. It always helps your secondary when you face bottom 10 QB's in 4 out of 5 games.. The Dolphins intercepted Trent Edwards 3 times too.
     
    eric and azfinfanmang like this.
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,976
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    That's an excellent point.
     
  15. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,862
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    Well we traded for Grove. But still looks like a good pickup so far. Its true we havent hit on many of our FA signing since the trifecta took over. But they also have hit on a few, Pennington, Fergy, Smiley, Cobbs, Ayodele(trade), Fasano(trade), and Starks. But notice many of these guys are stop gaps. We are building this team through the draft and in time, we will yield many wins and hopefully a Super Bowl from our investments.
     
    mbmonk likes this.
  16. ChrisKo

    ChrisKo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    3,304
    2,590
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Desert
    We got a 2nd and a 7th for a guy that was a UDFA cut from the Chargers. I wouldn't call that nothing. No one thought a team would give up a 2nd rounder when we tendered Wes, so you cannot say it was gift wrapped. Also, Randy Mueller was the GM and not Cameron, so you're blaming the wrong guy too.

    I was and still am a Wes Welker fan, but the Patriots gave up a lot to get him. Belichick isn't afraid to go after guys he thinks will produce under his system and unfortunately, he had huge respect for Welker.
     
    GridIronKing34 and azfinfanmang like this.
  17. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

    1,333
    457
    0
    Aug 4, 2008
    I thought the same thing until I researched it about two months back. He was actually a FA signing.

    Linky:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3948645

    I thought we traded for him as well man :), but not the case.
     
    FinSane likes this.
  18. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

    8,474
    1,991
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    RI
    What is the point of this thread?

    No where does it say that Miami even thought about signing him.
     
  19. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    Welker isn't and never will be a #1 receiver. You put him on any other team and his success drops off by a lot. He has the benefit of not being 'the man" on his team.
     
  20. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

    4,749
    1,940
    113
    Oct 9, 2009
    New York
    Who did we use those picks from welker on? something Wright-dont even know where he is now, maybe a gym teacher. Satele was a good pick, but I'd take Welker over him. Even with Matt Cassel at QB he led the league in receptions and had back to back seasons with over 100 receptions, which is rare.
     
  21. DaFish

    DaFish Well-Known Member

    2,055
    732
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Forget that punk. Every time I see him catch a pass I just wish for someone to lay him out. He didn't want to be in Miami anyway.
     
    Ozzy, muscle979 and first&goal like this.
  22. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    I'll be more than happy to explain then;]

    We have already had a run stuffing type safety and we needed a ballhawk.....

    We passed on Sharper who is ball hawking his *** OFF for a guy in the same mold as the safety we already have, only he sucks.

    "Hindsight" is under-rated.....it reminds you that you need to do better, be smarter......and when it comes to FA, we certainly do
     
  23. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    A one year stop gap until we could have drafted a safety sounds a hell of a lot better than giving a scrub like Wilson 8 mil guaranteed......cap money you can bet your *** we'll be eating here in the near future.

    You can make all the excuses you want for Sharpers play......lets see you make some for Wilson's?
     
  24. F.O

    F.O New Member

    124
    55
    0
    Sep 26, 2009
    I haven't made any excuses for Wilson's play.. So it was silly for you to bring that up.

    Please show us all where you were pimping Miami to sign Sharper this past offseason ?

    That's what I thought.

    Because Sharper was sitting for 3 weeks while no one wanted him.. He went to a situation in NO that is great for a safety.. Has a great offense there forcing a lot of opportunities for him, combined with a couple of good corners allowing him to roam freely, and often.

    And of course he went up against crappy QB's like Sanchez, Kolb, Edwards and Stafford-- guys who are turning the ball over all over the place.

    You can disagree with the Wilson signing, and that's fine.. But the staff saw Wilson a lot when he was with the Giants.. Sparano mentioned how Wilson made things hard on them, and he made it tough when the Cowboys were preparing for the Giants.. So if he regressed since then, it certainly wouldn'tt be the first time as more often then not free agents aren't worth the $$ they receive.

    You can go back to any draft or any free agency period and wish you had a player or two.. Like all the Raider fans wished they re-signed Jake Grove now all over their message boards.. Hindsight is 20/20

    But unless we saw you calling to sign Sharper in the off season, you really have no right to point the finger at anyone... Because you didn't claim that he would produce like this either (and against some turnover prone and bad/inexperienced QB's the saints have played this year).

    And for you to say Miami hasn't hit on any free agents is silly.. Look around the league. Most teams don't hit on them every time.. And they pay a lot more than Miami has.

    Would you have rather Miami spent $82 Million on one position like the jets did ? Drafting a bust like Gholston and paying Pace $40 Million ? An overrated player and a bust = $82 Million.. Miami has not come close to making mistakes like that.

    The free agents Miami has signed are not of the high priced variety. They are guys who were younger who were affordable- like Starks who was only 24 and led Miami's D-line in metrics last year with an astounding 27% win rate..

    Justin Smiley is not expensive at $5 Million a year.. Alan Faneca was ranked 30th in pass blocking last year of all the left guards in the league, and had a lot of issues with pass blocking the previous 2 years in Pittsburgh (that's why they didn't want him back).. Faneca is a lot older than Smiley.. And the Jets made Faneca the highest paid offensive linemen when they signed him last season.. The Jets paid all that money for a one dimensional offensive guard.. Which is real stupidity.

    Bart Scott, as I predicted, would be a terrible signing at the money he got.. Look at that contract, he isn't worth half that.. While he looks okay making a tackle, he has always had trouble disengaging off of blocks.. 6 years at $50 Million for Bart Scott was STUPID ! Scott is not even a top 15 ILB/MLB.

    When do you see Miami making stupid moves like that ? You don't.

    Seriously man, you should go around the league and see how many teams, and how many players don't live up to their free agent contracts over the last couple of years.. There are A LOT of them, on most teams.

    Did you see what Foxworth signed for in Baltimore ?? Ozzie Newsome is considered one of the best GM's in football.. And Foxworth has looked HORRIBLE this year.. Foxworth signed with $16.5 Million Guaranteed. I can go on and on around the league.. Teams make bad free agent signings all the time.. WHY do you think Ireland and Sparano keep saying that they will build this team through the draft ?

    One Gibril Wilson signing with $8M guaranteed is not going to kill the Dolphins future, or their cap.. A lot of teams have far more bigger issues than that.. And it's a lot easier to manage the cap than you think.. Teams can do a lot of restructuring.. Look at the Jets, they were $23 million over the cap, and they still found the cash to pay for plenty of free agents. so even a stupid team like that can figure it out.. And Miami is not near the situation they were in (and are in with older players on the Jets D-line which they need to revamp, two O-linemen getting older, while they have no depth on their roster, and keep giving away picks for quick fixes).

    So You're overreacting.

    This Miami team is doing it right.. Building through the draft, building a "young" team properly. They don't throw away their picks like other teams do.. And they hit more than they miss on the free agent market-- which are of the lower priced variety and still in their low to mid 20's.. JT was an exception only because they knew him, and he was only a $1.5M signing.. But this regime is not going to bring a bunch of 34 year old stop-gap players.. That's not how you build a good young team for the future. Those 34 year old stop gaps very rarely work out.

    Parcells is slowly but surely building a powerhouse team in Miami. Just be patient. Great days are ahead.
     
  25. F.O

    F.O New Member

    124
    55
    0
    Sep 26, 2009
    To add to that:

    The last time the Colts won the super bowl, 48 players on their 53 man roster were drafted by the Colts.

    When the Steelers won their super bowl in 2005, 19 of their 22 starters were drafted by the Steelers.. I didn't check last year's team. but I am sure it's high as well.

    The last time the Patriots won the Super Bowl, 18 of their 22 starters were drafted by the team.

    Do we see a pattern here ? There is a reason why super bowl winners year after year in this decade are the teams that draft the best.. That's why all you hear from Parcells, Ireland and Sparano is Miami will build this team via the draft.

    Free agency is not the answer.. Ask the Foreskins and Jets.

    You don't see teams like the Steelers and Colts paying for high priced free agents.. Or signing many free agents at all. The reason why they are good year after year after year, is because they know how to draft.

    Now the Dolphins had to sign a few free agents like Starks, Smiley, Pennington, and trade for an older player like Ferguson, as well as trading a 4th for Fasano and Ayodele (Miami got the 4th back in the Lorenzo Booker deal)-- because Miami was coming off a 1-15 season.. Miami didn't have many super star players, and didn't have any depth on the roster at all.. So this regime needed some bodies to put on the field.

    They had no choice, they needed some bodies coming off that garbage 2007 team.. And since then there are 40 new players on the roster.

    This regime took over an expansion type roster when they came in.. So as time goes along, and they build this team through the draft, year after year bringing in more talent and depth, you will see less and less free agent signings.

    Did you really expect them to build a super bowl contender in just a year and a half ? When they took over an 1-15 expansion type team that had no superstar players and no depth ? In fact, many would argue that the team this regime took over was worse than an expansion team.

    Miami is currently the 5th youngest team in the NFL.. They're doing it right. Building a team that's going to be consistently good over the next decade.

    I like the fact that they made sure that the entire O-line is signed over the next 3/4 years.. And that we have such a promising and young D-line.. Starks, Merling and Langford are signed over the next few years.. And Soliai may just be that NT is he keeps improving and developing as he has (but who knows, if not then the only position they need to look at on the lines is NT)... They're building the team right, and started in the right places.
     
  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,684
    4,598
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Take Moss off the team and watch his production drop. Hes good at what he does, but that is NOT being a #1 reciever. The fact that we failed to capitalize on what we got for him doesnt mean that we should have kept him either. The fact was, at that time it just wasnt a good idea to swallow the poison pill we would have had to in order to keep him.

    Trade him with Cam or Bess on our team and I doubt we see much more production than we are getting. He is the beneficiary of an offense that he ideal for right now.

    Regarding Sharper vs. Wilson, this is a stupid debate. We never even considered him. We brought in Wilson as an attempt to find a long term answer. Sharper is not a long term answer. We werent trying to get older. Right now, his skills are ideal for the team he plays on (as has been mentioned). Putting him on Miami there is no way to guarantee those numbers.
     
  27. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    I was posting an article....get over it or don't read it. All the same to me
     
  28. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Regardless...everyone signs FA's.......and it makes a huge diff if you sign the right ones.

    You act like I'm calling the FO a failure.....I just posted an article and gave my opinion and you felt the need to grandstand and post a novel, basically doing what you accused me of. What a joke....
     
  29. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

    7,661
    2,275
    0
    Dec 14, 2007
    Dolphins made the right choice at the time. I also think Wislon's biggest problem is Bell. However I believe that Bells biggest problem is Wilson. We have two run stopping safeties and one needs to go. I would rather have Wilson and get a good cover SS.
     
  30. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Jake Grove was a free agent signing. Everyone seems to think that he was traded to Oakland for Satele, which simply is not the case. To set the record straight, we signed Grove to a LUCRATIVE multi-year deal on March 3rd of this year.

    As for Sharper, different scheme and skillset than what we were working for. Wilson has been a bust so far, but Sharper never was on our radar, as fans, or from management. It wasn't like the Brees situation at all, where we simply picked the wrong guy (Culpepper). Sharper wasn't anywhere near us.

    As for the front office, I think their track record is more positve than negative when it comes to free agents. People forget that in addition to Grove, Justin Smiley, Chad Pennington, Jason Ferguson, Jason Taylor, Cam Wake, and many others were brought over via free agency. All have contributed to the success and turnaround of our franchise.

    So yes, they whiffed on Wilford and Wilson, but the net gain leaves me with confidence.
     
    jetssuck likes this.
  31. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Agreed.....

    However I think that you really have to question the thinking behind deciding on Wilson.....he really didn't fit the need we had at safety, it's showing and worst of all, it has hurt us.....

    I guess I should have just kept that article to myself....lol
     
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

    37,392
    14,745
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    new york ciity
    honestly i couldnt care less whether we have sharper or wilson. next year their replacement will be starting. sharper has picks but his best days are well behind him. sharper wouldnt have been some brilliant move. the major problem in the secondary has been trying to get two new players in the secondary to mesh well with the two leftovers. it seems to be improving. I doubt sharper plays any better for us than wilson. Our secondary is going through what our offensive line went through. I think the secondary will improve upon its own once evryone knows what the other guy is thinking
     
  33. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

    5,596
    3,609
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    It seems as tho Crowder is doing a good job QBing the front 7 but I guess YB is supposed to be doing that for the secondary and it seems like it is lacking.. I think we miss R Hill a little more than we figured he knew exactly where to line everyone up on every play...his physical skills are below par but he could make the calls early and get everyone lined up.
     
    adamprez2003, first&goal and cnc66 like this.
  34. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,358
    9,641
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Northwest New Jersey

    I think Mr Moss has a ton to do with that!:wink2:
     
  35. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    where we have been missing is with lower tier FAs filling positions of need ...

    why do we try to fill with a younger player with an upside ??

    because we are trying to strike gold with a younger player and a reasonable contract ... while at the same time -- drafting a player in the draft ... so, worst case you get a stop gap player

    of course, such as Green ... you get neither. IF that had worked though ... consider the position we would be in WRT our CB position.

    Grove was not this type of signing ... he was specifically targeted ... just like Smiley, and much like Merriman will be next year (IF he shows he's healthy by the end of the year) ...

    Pennington was a gift ... the FO gets no credit for that one ...
     
  36. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

    6,771
    1,680
    113
    Mar 15, 2009
    Alabama
  37. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

    925
    335
    0
    Oct 25, 2009
    Miami
    Agreed, you forgot Jason Taylor and Lou Polite. Polite is playing like a Pro Bowl FB.
     
  38. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    the defensive backfield is coming into its own
    would not underestimate Wilson, he'll do just fine
    have Clemons to push the two for a safety spot
    excellent backup & needed competition
    look for the the entire secondary to step up today
     
  39. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

    5,556
    4,925
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    NJ
    Wilson sucking at FS was not really a hindsight 20/20 issue. When we all learned that Wilson was going to play alongside Bell this year, we all predicted our biggest problem will be the big play over the top passes and covering TEs. And that's exactly what our biggest problems are on Defense.

    Now I'm not gonna kill the FO for this move. It's a mistake. Many teams make them, but I will say this:

    If you're gonna let Renaldo Hill walk, you better have a well thought out plan, and I don't think Wilson was a well thought out plan. More like the best we could do.

    My biggest beef this offseason was giving Crowder and V. Carey money and not R. Hill. IMO, they should've let one of Crowder or Carey walk and signed back Hill.
     
    Stitches likes this.
  40. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

    1,690
    252
    83
    Dec 16, 2007
    Linden,NJ

    Agree 100%,Some people think bill like a god and trust all his moves are out of this world.



    He has made a couple bad moves in my book but again a realize no one perfect.
     

Share This Page