Coyle starting to understand..I think.

Mods you could merge this in one if the panther threads if you want, didn't know if the panther fans wanted to read stuff like this.

i use jordan spying cam newton ! use odrich at re and starks and soliai ,them 3 should be stout enough vs there 3 way run attack of williams,stewart,tolbert

Essentially, Jordan should have been playing linebacker all along.

Jordan as a linebacker is the way to go. I love watching him freelance behind the D-line. Someone gave him the nickname praying mantis and it's perfect, you can do so many things with him at LB.

"KB21 wrote:

Essentially, Jordan should have been playing linebacker all along.

Yes sir..could you expound on that?

“Those are big plays and we understand that those are targets for these quarterbacks,” Jordan said. “If I’m able to eliminate that target then it’ll create a big play. It’s a lot easier, too, when you got guys like (Cameron) Wake rushing and putting the pressure on him so everything kind of just falls into pieces with the athletes we have on our defense. It’s just eliminating certain targets for quarterbacks and just trying to create bigger opportunities for the defense just to make plays on those critical downs.”

I like his willingness to eliminate targets and creating big plays be it by sacking the QB or eliminating targets, and he gives credit where it's due.

I also like that he is seeing the field in regards to playing time. We need versatile guys and we have a few, and I'm happy they're getting on the field.

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

Jordan as a linebacker is the way to go. I love watching him freelance behind the D-line. Someone gave him the nickname praying mantis and it's perfect, you can do so many things with him at LB.

Also, having him in the game may allow them to let Jones freelance more, as he is better when he freelances than he is when he is put into coverage.

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

Jordan as a linebacker is the way to go. I love watching him freelance behind the D-line. Someone gave him the nickname praying mantis and it's perfect, you can do so many things with him at LB.

"freelance".... That's the key word....that why I call him the freestyler....that's how you get the best out of this young player while you develop him..This is how he can make his mark in the NFL..reading and reacting...with explosive measurables and unprecedented range.

I'm not sure even he understands that he has Lawrence Taylor potential.

"djphinfan wrote:

Yes sir..could you expound on that?

Well, he's better in coverage than any of our linebackers, and he's also better at putting pressure on the quarterback than any of our linebackers. The way he played at Oregon, his game was prototypical for a linebacker. I said when he was drafted that he would be great as a SAM backer in a hybrid scheme.

"KB21 wrote:

Also, having him in the game may allow them to let Jones freelance more, as he is better when he freelances than he is when he is put into coverage.

Exactly. Losing Dansby and Burnett not only downgraded the LB group but it also weakened one of your best defenders in Reshad Jones because now his assignments are different.

"KB21 wrote:

Well, he's better in coverage than any of our linebackers, and he's also better at putting pressure on the quarterback than any of our linebackers. The way he played at Oregon, his game was prototypical for a linebacker. I said when he was drafted that he would be great as a SAM backer in a hybrid scheme.

So with guys we already have would you: Jordan SAM, Ellerbe MIKE, ????WILL (Misi? Jenkins? Someone else?)

"KB21 wrote:

Also, having him in the game may allow them to let Jones freelance more, as he is better when he freelances than he is when he is put into coverage.

He has the skillset to take up more space and allow others to cover less, basically the old cliché of he can make everybody better.

Great point about Jones..that's probabaly what has happened..we had better cover linebackers last year..makes sense.

"KB21 wrote:

Well, he's better in coverage than any of our linebackers, and he's also better at putting pressure on the quarterback than any of our linebackers. The way he played at Oregon, his game was prototypical for a linebacker. I said when he was drafted that he would be great as a SAM backer in a hybrid scheme.

Shouldn't we redesign this defense around this skillset.?..

"KB21 wrote:

Essentially, Jordan should have been playing linebacker all along.

And really, the Dolphins defensive personnel are probably a much better fit for a 3-4 IMO.

"sports24/7 wrote:

And really, the Dolphins defensive personnel are probably a much better fit for a 3-4 IMO.

I do not agree. I think they are better fit for a hybrid type defense.

They don't have the linebackers for a 3-4.

Who comes off the field to make room for Jordan?

"shula_guy wrote:

Who comes off the field to make room for Jordan?

Any number of people.

Rotate!

"djphinfan wrote:

Shouldn't we redesign this defense around this skillset.?..

Typically, Kevin Coyle(and the Mike Zimmer run defense he's emulating) have used former 3-4 OLB type players as the SAM in the defense. Manny Lawson, James Harrison, Koa Misi, etc. I was surprised that Jordan wasn't in that role, and an edge rusher in Nickel

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I do not agree. I think they are better fit for a hybrid type defense.

They don't have the linebackers for a 3-4.

I don't think the problems with Ellerbe/Wheeler are either assuaged or complicated if you'd move to a 3-4 or 3-4 oriented defense.

Misi, Vernon, and Jordan would all benefit from playing 3-4 OLB, I think. Wake wouldn't really benefit, but I don't think he'd be hurt either.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I do not agree. I think they are better fit for a hybrid type defense.

They don't have the linebackers for a 3-4.

I agree with this right now. I think they've got 3 of the 4 spots you'd need a 3-4 defense filled. I think the one thing they currently lack is a thumper in the middle. They don't have a Karlos Dansby, Brandon Spikes, or someone of a similar size to stop the run.

Not directed at you, but before anyone asks, no I don't think Koa Misi is that type of player, and now his extension seems superfluous if Dion Jordan is going to eat into his snaps, as Dion Jordan should.

If I had my druthers and Miami was running a 3-4 defense, I'd have Jordan and Wake on the outside - you can matchup Jordan however you want. I'd have Olivier Vernon as my top backup at either. In the middle, I think you've got that "Moe" spot filled with Dannell Ellerbe, as he played it in Baltimore. Jelani Jenkins would be my top sub as a coverage specialist.

The open spot would be filled by, just me spitballing here, a guy like Shayne Skov or A.J. Johnson via the draft, or you could pay Brandon Spikes if New England lets him loose.

And, to boot, you can still get guys like Olivier Vernon and Jelani Jenkins an ample amount of snaps in sub packages. Guys it probably lops off the roster who are currently on it at present would be Koa Misi (too expensive for depth) and Derrick Shelby (bad schematic fit). It might also be a boon for a guy like Josh Kaddu who keeps bouncing between the 53 man roster and practice squad. I think you could still keep one of the three between Freeny, Spitler, and Trusnik for special teams purposes and emergency depth.

"djphinfan wrote:

Shouldn't we redesign this defense around this skillset.?..

I don't think it needs to be re-designed; they've just been horrifically slow as a staff figuring out how pieces work. Then, they ended up extending Koa Misi based on his 2012 season, which essentially is a stop gap to where Dion Jordan SHOULD have been playing all along. Olivier Vernon's play also clouds the issue.

In 2014, if the same scheme is in place, I would highly expect Dion Jordan to be starting over both of those two.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I don't think the problems with Ellerbe/Wheeler are either assuaged or complicated if you'd move to a 3-4 or 3-4 oriented defense.

Misi, Vernon, and Jordan would all benefit from playing 3-4 OLB, I think. Wake wouldn't really benefit, but I don't think he'd be hurt either.

I don't think Vernon or Jordan would benefit from playing a straight 3-4. I do not like Wake AT ALL as an outside linebacker in a 3-4.

By the defense Miami has, I think a hybrid, never know what is coming slashing defense is best for their personal.

I'll try and post parts of this over the weekend, but I have an old excerpt from a coaches manual that details Jack Dooley's "Eagle" defense that he ran at Virginia Tech. It was originally a concept run out of the "50" and "50 shade" defenses (what we now know as the 3-4 front). It's been filtered into more and more looks and ultimately, I personally would consider it to be the overarching concept behind these hybrid defenses.

Nick Saban used it sparingly in Miami until he figured out Yeremiah Bell was better than Tavares Tillman, but he's used it a lot at Alabama with guys like Mark Barron, Robert Lester, and Vinny Sunseri. Seattle two years ago ran it pretty much exclusively, they've backed off of it more this year. Pittsburgh, at the height of Troy Polamalu's reign, ran it a lot out of their 3-4 scheme (probably the truest connection to Dooley's defense I've seen). Miami ran a very similar look to it quite a bit the 2nd half of last season (though Miami's is a bit different given Wake's propensity to rush exclusively from the defense's left).

The principle states that you want to have your best pass-rusher, coverage linebacker, and best overall safety lined up on the same side of the field every snap. Miami did that last year a lot with Wake, Burnett, and Jones. It's faltered this year because Philip Wheeler's had lapses in coverage and they've played Wake in techniques tighter to the center than he has in the past. Reshad Jones has been pretty awful at times as well, so it just hasn't clicked.

I'll see if I can scan some of it in over the weekend and make a separate thread about it. I just think if Miami's willing to make a transition to the 3-4, the benefit of having 3, maybe 4 guys in Wake, Jordan, Vernon, and potentially Misi that all play on the edges outweighs the value of having guys like Ellerbe and Wheeler playing on the inside that can blitz.

"Fin D wrote:

So with guys we already have would you: Jordan SAM, Ellerbe MIKE, ????WILL (Misi? Jenkins? Someone else?)

stay with Wheeler temporarily since he's under contract while giving Jenkins another year to see how he progresses before throwing a higher draft pick at the position. The bigger question is how to handle RDE. I'd rather go big and athletic there, someone capable of 2-gapping like a 3-4 DE rather than a traditional 7 technique end.