Damontre Moore, DE - Texas A&M

I want the Da Monster on the team.

Absolutely love this guy. Such a complete game with room to grow still.

I like the idea of drafting him, but I don't like the idea of trading in this draft. This draft will have a lot of talent in the first couple days where the Dolphins are loaded with picks. If you make all 5 of those picks there is a good chance you're coming out of the draft with at least 2-3 good players.

I don't think it's impossible Moore gets to 12 though. There are always surprise guys who fall and what we think the draft boards will look like now will be very different in a few months. Right now most seem to feel Jones, Moore, and Werner will be gone by the time we pick, but most people thought that about Robert Quinn would get out of the top 5, let alone fall to 14 at this time in 2011. Same thing last year with Quinton Coples. But even if those 3 are taken, there are some other intriguing pass rushers that are more likely to be there.

I heavily doubt Miami considers trading up for Damontre Moore.

I would be hard pressed to draft him at #12 overall let alone trade up for him. I doubt the players I would need to see off the board at 12 will all be off the board to where I find myself drafting Damontre Moore. It might not even be possible for all of them to be off the board as I'm not sure I'd have Moore amongst my top 12 or 15 players.

About that video, I'm not sure I'm supposed to get a great impression of him from it. He was fully controlled for the most part on his pass rush attempts, and in the run game he was either finding himself on the carpet or not getting off the blocks to make a play, unless he was unblocked to begin with.

For instance look at the sack at 1:09. Look how much Xavier Nixon (who is barely a top 10 offensive tackle in this Draft) walloped the guy on initial contact. He sent a punch to "Da Monster" that sent him flying backward. Nixon had Moore easy peasy on the play. That's not a top 5 overall player. Only reason he got the sack was because the Center tripped over the defensive tackle who was on the carpet behind him as he backed up.

The second sack he got was a total coverage sack. He stayed at home to spy on the QB, unblocked, and when he held the ball too long and started to run, he committed.

There was another disturbing lack of strength play at 2:39 in the video. He stunts to the inside, and has essentially 7 yards of free space to gain steam before he meets Jon Halapio (who IMO isn't very good, from what I've seen of him over the years) who picks him up in zone. With that much steam, Damontre Moore needs to win this. He should be able to knock Halapio backward and shed him. Instead it's like he ran into a brick wall. Halapio completely reversed Moore's momentum. Then at 3:05 he does the same thing but this time meets the Center, and Halapio gives him a shove and knocks Moore straight to the ground. Weak.

At 3:49 he actually makes a quality move to the inside after pushing Xavier Nixon on a vertical rush, but again this is where lack of strength shows up. You can pause at a certain point and Damontre has Driskel dead to rights. His shoulders are square to the QB while Nixon's are square to the line of scrimmage, Moore has a hand on Nixon to maintain separation while Nixon has a hand on Moore's chest. This is either going to be a sack or a holding penalty. Except it's not either, because Nixon drives forward and slams Moore straight into the turf.

He gets another sack and again this is just Driskel holding onto the football and scrambling to exactly where Moore was. Try and pretend you're evaluating Xavier Nixon on the play and not Damontre Moore. Do you give Nixon anything but positive marks on it?

And in its own way the play at 5:12 was also disturbing. Moore makes a move to the inside and he's going to bull rush Jon Halapio, who as I said I don't have a very high opinion of. Halapio is backing up preparing for the bull rush as he's seeing it coming and he's got his shoulders behind his hips, which is a big mistake as one big punch to the chest from Moore could put him on the turf. Just before Moore gets to him, Halapio punches out, but starting from the body position he did it's not going to be a very strong punch and Moore should be able to drive him backward. But again he broke against Halapio like a wave breaking against a rock. No push.

His best rush of the game came against backup right tackle Kyle Koehne after Chaz Greene went out of the game. Koehne makes Halapio look like an All Star. Even so, Moore had to fight for every inch.

Even tight ends were blocking him well enough to keep him from making plays when he was in position to make them...all except one play toward the end of the video. But even on that play Moore canceled the good effort by grabbing the RB's facemask. Couple plays later though he's being driven backward like 6 yards by a skinny tight end's drive block.

I'm being harsh on Damontre Moore, I realize. It's not like I hate the man. There's a certain point you'd draft him. He uses his hands reasonably well and you can't coach the 2nd and 3rd step he has to take a tackle deep on the outside rush. But his lack of strength is evident everywhere in his film and you can't really think about pulling him back to linebacker because get him out in space and he's really not that great of an athlete. He's like a slightly better taught but much less athletic and much weaker version of Dion Jordan.

"ckparrothead wrote:

I heavily doubt Miami considers trading up for Damontre Moore.

I would be hard pressed to draft him at #12 overall let alone trade up for him. I doubt the players I would need to see off the board at 12 will all be off the board to where I find myself drafting Damontre Moore. It might not even be possible for all of them to be off the board as I'm not sure I'd have Moore amongst my top 12 or 15 players.

About that video, I'm not sure I'm supposed to get a great impression of him from it. He was fully controlled for the most part on his pass rush attempts, and in the run game he was either finding himself on the carpet or not getting off the blocks to make a play, unless he was unblocked to begin with.

For instance look at the sack at 1:09. Look how much Xavier Nixon (who is barely a top 10 offensive tackle in this Draft) walloped the guy on initial contact. He sent a punch to "Da Monster" that sent him flying backward. Nixon had Moore easy peasy on the play. That's not a top 5 overall player. Only reason he got the sack was because the Center tripped over the defensive tackle who was on the carpet behind him as he backed up.

The second sack he got was a total coverage sack. He stayed at home to spy on the QB, unblocked, and when he held the ball too long and started to run, he committed.

There was another disturbing lack of strength play at 2:39 in the video. He stunts to the inside, and has essentially 7 yards of free space to gain steam before he meets Jon Halapio (who IMO isn't very good, from what I've seen of him over the years) who picks him up in zone. With that much steam, Damontre Moore needs to win this. He should be able to knock Halapio backward and shed him. Instead it's like he ran into a brick wall. Halapio completely reversed Moore's momentum. Then at 3:05 he does the same thing but this time meets the Center, and Halapio gives him a shove and knocks Moore straight to the ground. Weak.

At 3:49 he actually makes a quality move to the inside after pushing Xavier Nixon on a vertical rush, but again this is where lack of strength shows up. You can pause at a certain point and Damontre has Driskel dead to rights. His shoulders are square to the QB while Nixon's are square to the line of scrimmage, Moore has a hand on Nixon to maintain separation while Nixon has a hand on Moore's chest. This is either going to be a sack or a holding penalty. Except it's not either, because Nixon drives forward and slams Moore straight into the turf.

He gets another sack and again this is just Driskel holding onto the football and scrambling to exactly where Moore was. Try and pretend you're evaluating Xavier Nixon on the play and not Damontre Moore. Do you give Nixon anything but positive marks on it?

And in its own way the play at 5:12 was also disturbing. Moore makes a move to the inside and he's going to bull rush Jon Halapio, who as I said I don't have a very high opinion of. Halapio is backing up preparing for the bull rush as he's seeing it coming and he's got his shoulders behind his hips, which is a big mistake as one big punch to the chest from Moore could put him on the turf. Just before Moore gets to him, Halapio punches out, but starting from the body position he did it's not going to be a very strong punch and Moore should be able to drive him backward. But again he broke against Halapio like a wave breaking against a rock. No push.

His best rush of the game came against backup right tackle Kyle Koehne after Chaz Greene went out of the game. Koehne makes Halapio look like an All Star. Even so, Moore had to fight for every inch.

Even tight ends were blocking him well enough to keep him from making plays when he was in position to make them...all except one play toward the end of the video. But even on that play Moore canceled the good effort by grabbing the RB's facemask. Couple plays later though he's being driven backward like 6 yards by a skinny tight end's drive block.

I'm being harsh on Damontre Moore, I realize. It's not like I hate the man. There's a certain point you'd draft him. He uses his hands reasonably well and you can't coach the 2nd and 3rd step he has to take a tackle deep on the outside rush. But his lack of strength is evident everywhere in his film and you can't really think about pulling him back to linebacker because get him out in space and he's really not that great of an athlete. He's like a slightly better taught but much less athletic and much weaker version of Dion Jordan.

Oh wow. You melonfarmer... if I didn't have to get to the gym then a buddy's place to watch RayRay go ape-**** on Peyton I'd so be giving you the business on this post!!

lol.

Okay, I'll watch your points, and then post another video of more plays and my response.

Mainly though... weaker than Dion? Really?

Oh absolutely weaker than Dion Jordan. Not even a question, IMO. Significantly weaker.

Sorry but I just don't see us giving up multiple picks to move up seven spots. Not when we have huge needs at WR...TE....CB......our O-line....besides just needing another DE.

"Roman529 wrote:

Sorry but I just don't see us giving up multiple picks to move up seven spots. Not when we have huge needs at WR...TE....CB......our O-line....besides just needing another DE.

Well we don't know what will happen in free agency. Any number of those holes could be addressed there.

"Roman529 wrote:

Sorry but I just don't see us giving up multiple picks to move up seven spots. Not when we have huge needs at WR...TE....CB......our O-line....besides just needing another DE.

I think Vernon flashed enough to consider DE later.

Vernon IMO is a try-hard, high-motor run defending 3-4 OLB that might be able to shift inside and pass rush over a guard on obvious pass downs. I don't think you make personnel decisions based on his presence. Unfortunately I don't think the Dolphins front office will agree with me on that.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Vernon IMO is a try-hard, high-motor run defending 3-4 OLB that might be able to shift inside and pass rush over a guard on obvious pass downs. I don't think you make personnel decisions based on his presence. Unfortunately I don't think the Dolphins front office will agree with me on that.

1000% the case. He's an excellent SOLB prospect being played at rush DE despite no real rush ability.

DT-playing-at-DE Jared Odrick managed at least the same sack numbers from DE on NON-passing downs as our 'rush end' Vernon managed.

Man, we need a DE meant to actually play at DE.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Vernon IMO is a try-hard, high-motor run defending 3-4 OLB that might be able to shift inside and pass rush over a guard on obvious pass downs. I don't think you make personnel decisions based on his presence. Unfortunately I don't think the Dolphins front office will agree with me on that.

That's why I don't this Miami will spend a 1st on a DE unless Werner falls. We got some nice run defending pieces. I would like to see a pass rusher at some point early but who knows what Ireland is going to do. Free agency will help clear a lot of things up.

"Bpk wrote:

1000% the case. He's an excellent SOLB prospect being played at rush DE despite no real rush ability.

DT-playing-at-DE Jared Odrick managed at least the same sack numbers from DE on NON-passing downs as our 'rush end' Vernon managed.

Man, we need a DE meant to actually play at DE.

Probably most of those sacks from Odrick came from DT on pass downs though.

But yeah, Vernon shows no real pass rush ability.

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

That's why I don't this Miami will spend a 1st on a DE unless Werner falls. We got some nice run defending pieces. I would like to see a pass rusher at some point early but who knows what Ireland is going to do. Free agency will help clear a lot of things up.

Could go with DE just not necessarily the DEs people are thinking. More Zeke Ansah or Sheldon Richardson, POSSIBLY Alex Okafor.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Vernon IMO is a try-hard, high-motor run defending 3-4 OLB that might be able to shift inside and pass rush over a guard on obvious pass downs. I don't think you make personnel decisions based on his presence. Unfortunately I don't think the Dolphins front office will agree with me on that.

The thing is, didn't they know that from working him out and watching his film? I don't think I saw or learned anything about Vernon this year watching him with the Dolphins that I didn't already know from watching him at the U. He seems like the same player that he was at the U. Don't get me wrong I like him, but I think he is one of those players with a mid-to-high floor and low ceiling.

"UCF FINatic wrote:

The thing is, didn't they know that from working him out and watching his film? I don't think I saw or learned anything about Vernon this year watching him with the Dolphins that I didn't already know from watching him at the U. He seems like the same player that he was at the U. Don't get me wrong I like him, but I think he is one of those players with a mid-to-high floor and low ceiling.

His total lack of success in being able to pressure offensive tackles from the edge as a pass rusher surprised me. I knew he wouldn't necessarily be good at it and that his best bet would actually be rushing guards from the interior, but I didn't know he would be as bad with it as he was.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Could go with DE just not necessarily the DEs people are thinking. More Zeke Ansah or Sheldon Richardson, POSSIBLY Alex Okafor.

I'd be okay with Ansah. Isn't Richardson a DT. Same mold as Fletcher Cox?

"ckparrothead wrote:

Oh absolutely weaker than Dion Jordan. Not even a question, IMO. Significantly weaker.

What I see is Jordan as a more aggressive player that uses leverage better than Moore and is better at shedding blockers- he has a pretty vicious rip move where he'll get his body weight behind him, for example here at :25 (that is a TE he's against here, I believe)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdpzGUxkek4

So if that's what you mean, fair enough, but I'm not so sure about Moore being physically weaker than Jordan if that's what you mean. Moore does get stonewalled by OT hand punches a few times, but that doesn't tell the whole story - he is more of a finesse DE, but yeah you're being kind of harsh on him, more criticism than he deserves imo. There are plenty of plays where he handles himself just fine physically, and he is a premiere edge pass rusher. Moore got stonewalled plenty of times in the Alabama game as well:

But Jordan gets stifled and kicked out wide any number of times- I'm just going to go by this clip and look at :58, 1:05, buried at 1:30, taken for a ride at 1:52, etc etc.

That being said- I like Jordan quite a bit, even more so now after watching particularly for the strength aspect of his game- better than I originally thought. I have my doubts that Jordan is physically stronger than Moore, but he plays stronger, more aggressively. I do think that Moore is an OLB candidate, but Jordan looks even quicker and I think could make a great OLB- look at him at 2:18- they're basically playing him a lot at stand up DE/OLB anyway, look how he moves horizontally and vertically, that hint of a back pedal.

These are my two favorite DE/OLB pass rushers in the draft, I'd be happy to get either one. Tough call, but I'm leaning towards Jordan as my favorite. That being said, I do think that you're downplaying what Moore has to offer, he's a darned good player and I'd think that he could provided us with some much needed pass rush opposite Cameron Wake. In terms of value, I still like Corey Lemonier and your guy Okafor is a good player, too.

ps Barkley may actually be underrated now. I never was a big fan, too much Matt Flynn in him for me, but the Jets should be all over him imo. They might get a second chance after screwing up as per Russell Wilson.

That post sounds like you initially disagreed with me strongly and started writing exactly that, while watching more video of the two, and by the end coming out in total agreement with me while not quite wanting to admit it. :)

"ckparrothead wrote:

That post sounds like you initially disagreed with me strongly and started writing exactly that, while watching more video of the two, and by the end coming out in total agreement with me while not quite wanting to admit it. :)

Not exactly, but I have to give you credit- you pointed out pretty well how Jordan plays pretty strong for a rather thin guy, and that Moore is more of a finesse guy. I think that you went overboard in terms of saying that Moore plays weak or that he is weak, though. It seems that he prefers chase/read and react to smash mouth football, but I think that he still plays some good physical football and you're not giving him nearly enough credit for that. But as to your comparison of Moore to Jordan, for the most part I would say good point- Jordan has a more physical style of play from what I looked for and noticed after your post.

What you pointed out and then I looked for, if I understood you correctly, is how Jordan PLAYS strong for a guy of his thin stature- dude is kind of a twig at 6-7 240 compared to the OLs he goes against, but man is that guy fiesty. He seems to know how to use leverage, and in doing so he reminds me a bit of Andre Tippett. But Moore is a much thicker guy, different body type and he looks much stronger in the upper body, wider base, etc.- we'll find out at the combine.

Moore is imo the best pass rusher in this class at turning the corner. You can call it turning the corner or bending the arc- whatever you call it, Moore is impressive, great first step and his lean is something else- your guy Woerner does it well and he's a full sized 4/3 DE, but Moore does it better imo. In terms of overall burst, I think that I'd go with Jordan over Moore- very, very quick guy, better chance that he can play OLB, though I wouldn't discount Moore in that regard.

Jordan has some real pop to him, very good first step and this guy can move all over the place, a metaphorical queen on the chess board. In a word, he's dynamic and I think that a defensive coordinator would love to get him in some sort of a combo DE/OLB role, or a straight up OLB. To me, it's hard not to do a comparison between Jordan and Anthony Barr- similarities in size, pass rush, explosiveness and both seem to be DE/OLB tweeners.

Again, I think that you made some very good points about both Jordan and Moore. I just think that you took it too far as per Moore playing weak and/or being weak. On that one play you mentioned Halapio (320 lbs btw) thumped him in the chest and stopped him cold, but Moore was tracking the QB with his eyes and he released and made a good play down the left sideline. The Alabama OL pushed him around a bit, but that was pretty typical for them. But from what I've seen he sheds well, attacks well, and sometimes he does get stonewalled as you pointed out, then kind of waits around to see if he can track down the play- he likes to chase. But as per our pass rushing needs, I'd take Jordan or Moore gladly if either were there at #12. Which one first? Tough call, but maybe Jordan.

Damontre Moore only weighs 240 lbs. I don't know why it should be so shocking that when you really break him don he looks like he lacks strength and is able to be handled physically by OLs that get hold of him.

To me Moore looks closer to 260 than 240. You make an interesting point about Moore, I just think that you take it too far. And as to Jordan, look at this clip against USC or any number of other clips and you'll see him getting handled as well. Both Moore and Jordan have issues in terms of getting stonewalled, and one of my initial reservations about Jordan was how it looked like he got regularly ridden out wide by OTs when rushing the passer. I said it then and I'll say it now, it's a concern.

I like what Jordan does here at :08, then in the following play he's rendered useless at stand up RDE. He's tall and thin, it's going to happen with him like it happens with Moore, but Dion is a more aggressive player- not necessarily stronger, but more aggressive. 240 sounds awfully light for Moore.

I have looked at Jordan critically. On many occasions against many opponents, including against USC. He's stronger than Damontre Moore, period.

I have concerns about his flexibility running the arc and changing direction, and at times he seems heavy footed to me. IMO Moore has some bust potential b/c he's not a good enough pure pass rusher to be worth a high 1st round pick in my eyes, and he might be a liability as a strong side end vs the run against quality right tackles who have a 50+ pound weight advantage. Personally, I feel Ansah and CK's kid Okafor have a greater ceiling at strong side end.