Daniel Craig officially out as James Bond

"Paul 13 wrote:

Since he's married with child... I would have to say yes.

yeah but while she's banging him she's probably thinking of James Bond. :lol:

"ToddPhin wrote:

That's why they should go with a young up-and-coming British star like Nicholas Hoult who can pull off that refined, sophisticated look. See his Jaguar commercial below. In 5-10 years, Hoult is the ideal Bond, but they can use his youth to their advantage by doing a younger Bond [maybe showing how he became Bond, his initial training, plus his first assignment] in orderto break up the routine and rejuvenate fan interest.

For me, Hoult offers a better Bond presence hands down.

Pretty sure that this was called Casino Royale. I don't really need to see that remade again so soon.

How about Michael Fassbender?

I have to agree with VT, I liked Craig as a Bond. He was sharp and edgy while still being a ladies guy. Closest I can come to it is Phillip Winchester (Strike Back's Michael Stonebridge). Hardy wouldnt be a bad choice either.

Whoever suggested Jude Law must have loved Roger Moore as James Bond (easily the worst Bond selection imo). Thats beyond awful.

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

Pretty sure that this was called Casino Royale. I don't really need to see that remade again so soon.

No it wasn't. Daniel Craig was a badass from the moment he was introduced in Casino Royale, only he wasn't wearing his "Bond badge", but he might as well have been with the way he commandeered the frontloader and then navigated the scaffoldings en route to chasing down the bad guy. That's not character development, sorry.

......... And like you haven't seen 20 different "James Bond tackles the villain" movies? That's heavily more redundant than seeing a mid 20 year old James Bond becoming Bond. That's partly why Spectre was uncaptivating, because people have grown tired and bored of the same ol' "Bond goes on an action mission". Break up the darn monotony. What's the highest rated of the 4 Bond films with Daniel Craig? It's Casino Royale with an IMDb rating of 8.0. Quantum of Solace checked in at 6.7. Skyfall redeemed the series at 7.8.... and then Spectre dumped it back down to 6.9. So it looks like the "intro to Bond" episode was the best received of the four, just sayin.

Besides, Casino Royale was 10 years ago and isn't the same thing as what I suggested. The entire 30 & under crowd now was 20 & under when Casino Royale was released. Daniel Craig was 38 at the time. Nicholas Hoult is currently 26. If they're to use a new Bond, I personally would prefer to see some time spent on character development with the first movie rather than just jumping right into a seasoned James Bond followed by 3 more movies of "same story different day". IMO each new Bond should be provided his own new and unique back story.

At 26 years of age, Nicholas Hoult would allow us to take Bond to a new level of character development not previously seen. He'd allow us to see what Bond was like in his 20's. Have you seen that yet? Daniel Craig was 38 in his Bond 1. Pierce Brosnan was 41. Dalton was 43. Roger Moore was 46. Connery was 32. The closest we've seen to a "young Bond" was 54 years ago. So how 'bout an actual glimpse into his earlier life for once. Why was Breaking Bad so great? -because we didn't immediately see Bryan Cranston as Heisenberg. We were able to see the transformation from Walter White to Heisenberg. Someone like Hoult would allow us to see a deeper transformation. The next Bond will have at least 3 or 4 movies to his own. If you're suggesting we shouldn't experience any character development over that long of a span, then I say huey on that.

Skyfall is the highest rated Bond of all time on IMDb. You say Skyfall is a reason to not do another intro to Bond movie. Well, I'd say the highest rated Bond flick of all time is a reason to do another intro.... but with some actual depth this time.

Damien Lewis

Kevin Hart

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Welll im rooting for the first transgendered Bond. Straight up with a "twist".

Nicholas Hoult? Jude Law? Damien Lewis? No... just no... I don't even really like Hiddleston for Bond either. I would rather they look for more of an "unknown" than try and push a square peg through a round hole.

How about Andy Samberg???

"Paul 13 wrote:

Benedict Cumberbatch would be an interesting Bond.

No.

Seriously, NO.

Really enjoy BC's "Sherlock" and various other characters/movies, but hated him as Khan in that Star Trek wannabe movie; and, much like Pierce Brosnan, he lacks the physicality to be an effective Bond.

I am looking forward to his take on "Dr Strange".

"ToddPhin wrote:

What about Jude Law?

Another No. Forget the accents and mannerisms. Connery and Craig defined the role thru physical presence. They were intimidating. Moore, Brosnan, etc... were popular pretty boys with accents. Moore got the role via playing "The Saint", and Brosnan via "Remington Steele". And Timothy Dalton... yech... None were nearly as good as Connery, Craig, or even George Lazenby. Bond has to be physically imposing to some extent.

"Stringer Bell wrote:

These likely aren't analogous, because I don't believe the Bond series had race as an inherent element of it's storyline. Obviously race is the central part of the story for Malcolm X. IIRC, it was also one for Shaft, as racial tension played a large part.

Is there any component of James Bond that was based on race?

Yes.
Warning - tl/dr ahead, lol. A couple years after being orphaned at 11, Bond was sent to a boys boarding school- Eton College, founded in 1440 by King Henry Vl. Incidentally, Bond's creator, Ian Flemming, attended Eton. Photo of the impressive school:

Eton school's background: Over the years, it has educated 19 Prime Ministers and has been referred to as "the chief nurse of England's statesman". In 1970, of the 1000 peers listed as members of the British House of Lords, no fewer than 366 were educated at Eton. It's been deemed "the most famous public school in the world", and has the strongest ties to Oxford and Cambridge around. A 20th century historian of Eton wrote, "No other school can claim to have sent forth such a cohort of distinguished figures to make their mark on the world". In the 50's substandard work at Eton was punished via domestic chores, and misbehavior was punished by caning the bare posterior in a semi-public ceremony. Athletics were dominated by mostly white sports- rowing, rugby, soccer, cricket, and tennis. The school was and is firmly entrenched in white European culture and white European history dating back to King Henry Vl. It was written by an ex student who attended both Eton and a normal public school that attending Eton really heightens a student's ability to concentrate at levels not seen at normal public schools. That too had a hand in developing 007.

Here's the uniform that young Bond wore at Eton .


So as you can easily imagine, Eton was predominantly a white school . More than a decade after James Bond was created, there were only 2 black students in Eton's attendance. Dillibe Onyemama was one, and he was either the first or one of their first black students since its inception 600 years prior. So, not only was it unlikely for Bond to have been a black student at Eton, but the stressful life of being the school's first black student would've drastically altered Bond's future. Despite being the grandson of the King of Ibo and the son of a prominent Nigerian judge, Onyemama was so harassed and persecuted at Eton that he never could've become 007, as his mindset was understandably too fixated on highlighting, exposing, and fighting racial inequality. Read his book titles and see for yourself.

After Eton, Bond attended a second all-boys boarding school, Fettes College in Edinburg, Scotland.... AKA "Eton of the North". Photo:


Fettes College was founded by Sir William Fettes, a Lord Provost of Edinburg and wealthy city merchant. This alma matter to Tony Blair is another prestigious school based strongly on white European culture and white European history, with little to no African student population when Bond was created and still very little to this day. Incidentally, Fettes College was JK Rowling's inspiration for Hogworts School. Life at Fettes revolves around white sports like rugby, hockey, cricket, golf, table tennis, and squash in the afternoons and the various clubs and societies like sub-aqua, shooting, judo, fencing, CCF (Combined Cadet Force), debating society, drama, chess, war gaming, model railway, music society, and classic dancing club in the evenings. I can see why Ian Flemming chose this secondary school for Bond b/c it really sets the table for the creation of 007. Bond's father also attended Fettes, so you can see how that assisted the shaping of young JB into 007 as well. At Fettes, James entrenched himself among the traditionally famous athletic circles, and by the time he left at age 17 he had twice fought for the school as a light-weight and had, in addition, founded the first serious judo class at a British public school .

Photo of Fettes uniforms and student appearance [again, influencing JB's later sophisticated, cultured look as 007]:


Bond then attended the University of Geneva in Switzerland ...... and was then taught to ski in the small medieval Austrian town of Kitzbuhel (how many black folks were taking skiing lessons in the 50's, let alone in the heavily white, if not all white town of Kitzbuhel?).

In addition to Bond's school life at prominent Anglo Saxon boarding institutions, during a time when it was more exclusive to white folks, JB was raised by a pair of cultured, well-educated, sophisticated and adventurous parents who died climbing the French Alps (how many black couples do you think climbed the Alps when Bond was created?... or how about in the present day?). His mother was a Spy Hunter for Mi6 (what are the chances of there being a black female British Spy Hunter in the 1950's... or even 20 years ago?). He even drinks a "white man's drink", drives a "white man's car", and dresses like a wealthy white businessman. There's a reason James Bond is prominently the most cultured, refined, sophisticated, and educated white male action character in cinematic history. His creator went through great lengths to make him that way. It didn't occur out of sheer happenstance. His upbringing and schooling were strongly founded on white European history, white European/British society, and white European/British culture. I'd say that that more than qualifies as being "based on race". Forget the fact that Ian Flemming specifically created Bond as a white character and described him as being white, it's not plausibly possible for James Bond 007 to be black w/o rewriting his entire life..... but if you do that, he's no longer James Bond.

As you can see, 007 is as white as Shaft is black, and there doesn't need to be racial undertones for that distinction to hold true. Racially speaking, white people collectively not having had to face discrimination issues doesn't make a white individual any less white or any less void of foundation or depth, but it seems like some people treat it that way. Just as Shaft was shaped by racial issues, the absence of racial issues had a hand in shaping Bond. So either way, it's still racial, only one way is overtly racial while the other is subcutaneous and inferred. As far as prominent cinematic action characters go though, Bond is probably the whitest of them all if we're omitting Westerns and that racist bigot John Wayne. Is Bond's character entitled to less integrity just b/c he didn't face Shaft's racial issues? What about Bond succeeding in life after being orphaned at 11 ? Since white characters can't have racial obstacles to overcome, being a child orphan is the elementary equivalent to it, and being orphaned is an important aspect of both James Bond and Bruce Wayne's storyline in that neither would've become 007 or Batman without it. There's a reason Bond has been so iconic for so long, and that's b/c he represents the white man's fantasy life that they live vicariously through for 2 hours. That only happens b/c Bond is as white as it gets w/o being Mr Drummond.

There's nothing wrong with having a black actor cast as an Mi6 agent. He's just not James Bond. He'd have to be 006 or something and be given an entirely different backstory for it to plausibly fit. If they did that with Idris Elba or Chiwetel Ejiofor, I'd see it in a heartbeat.

Double O Fitty...

Seriously, there should be a woman Bond. And Kate Beckingsale would be perfect for Jane Bond. Or even Kate Winslet. Or Daniel Craig's real life wife Rachel Weisz. Or maybe even Zoe Zaldana.

"Fin D wrote:

Seriously, there should be a woman Bond. And Kate Beckingsale would be perfect for Jane Bond. Or even Kate Winslet. Or Daniel Craig's real life wife Rachel Weisz. Or maybe even Zoe Zaldana.

Seriously No.

Women have their own Spy Characters... Nikita, Alias, MI-5 girls, Covert Affairs, etc...

You would no more want a man to play Mata Hari, Nikita, or Sydney Bristow, then a woman to play 007. They can be 003 and a half or something.

(That's a joke)

BTW, Cate Blanchett played Charlotte Gray.

"Paul 13 wrote:

Double O Fitty...

Battling the evil deevil dizzle shizzle: Snoop DoggyMasterMind to thwart him taking over the Music industry and control kids minds with weed n rap. Wait... that's currently being done anyway. :shifty:

"cuchulainn wrote:

Seriously No.

Women have their own Spy Characters... Nikita, Alias, MI-5 girls, Covert Affairs, etc...

You would no more want a man to play Mata Hari, Nikita, or Sydney Bristow, then a woman to play 007. They can be 003 and a half or something.

(That's a joke)

BTW, Cate Blanchett played Charlotte Gray.

So?

James Bond, 007 is a title at this point.

"cuchulainn wrote:

Battling the evil deevil dizzle shizzle: Snoop DoggyMasterMind to thwart him taking over the Music industry and control kids minds with weed n rap. Wait... that's currently being done anyway. :shifty:

could have that black little person from Bad Santa as Mini Me... Snoop Pup.

"ToddPhin wrote:

It doesn't have to center around it to be pertinent. It just has to exist. Flemming created a backstory for Bond, a specific one at that, and that's all that matters. I'm of mind that you stay true to backstories for both character integrity and respect to the character's creator, and I know I'm not alone. If time's been spent bringing a character to life, he shouldn't be treated differently than a nonfictional character just b/c he's "fictitious". It's simple, Idris Elba changes Bond's backstory, which means he's no longer Bond. So rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and call it by the same name, take the extra time to give Elba his own backstory as an equally great spy/Intelligence Agent, and then give him his own name and own movie title.

When I mentioned a white actor playing John Shaft, you essentially retorted that it wouldn't be possible b/c Shaft's character was shaped by racial issues, as if that's fully exclusive to black individuals, which is inaccurate. It might be predominantly exclusive enough to form an archetype that an actor like Samuel Jackson better fits, but don't pretend that white individuals of all varieties, Hispanics, Asians, and Native Americans can't be similarly shaped by racial issues too, nor that they can't be anarchist types wanting to throw a monkey wrench into the white system and white corruption. There've been plenty of white individuals throughout history who've either been killed for attempting such or who stood up against discrimination and were thusly persecuted just the same.

Sidebar story that everyone should know, and shame on anyone who doesn't take the time to read it below. We all know the Rosa Parks story in Montgomery Alabama in 1955, but how many know the precursor to that event, beginning in 1952 in the same town at the hands of a wealthy, established, educated white socialite named Juliette Hampton who faced so much hate, persecution, and stress for standing up against racism that she ultimately paid the greatest price by taking her own life.

So as you can see through the above historical story, John Shaft could easily have been something like the male version of Juliette Hampton..... or he could've been 'The Jerk'- "I was raised a poor black child" and grew up with a strong firsthand understanding of racism that directly affected and shaped his being. Contrary to your intimation, it's not a requirement for John Shaft to be black. Taking it a step further, in the film, once Shaft has some money, he rejects his Harlem neighborhood and moves to the white area of Greenwich Village. He could've come from a poor white family growing up in the black community of Harlem. Now, traditional black thought at the time was that black individuals who became wealthy should give back to and invest in their communities of origin much like we witness today with pro athletes and musicians. However, as noted in the book Redefining Black Film, "Instead, the implication is that wise black John Shaft will want to sever his ties with the people of Harlem and find a place among the whites".

Not to mention, Shaft's original storyline intended him to be white. Actually, John Shaft was collectively created by a group of white guys , and it led to a flawed interpretation of race, as blackness depicted in the movie wasn't authentic. To generate a larger viewership, they fabricated the representation of blackness to appeal to both black and white audiences alike. It was noted in the book Framing Blackness: The African American Image in Film, “Equally important, Riley points out that the narratives about, and images of, blacks in these new blaxploitation films are no more than thematic templates reworked with black casts and updated stereotypes that reconfirm white expectations of blacks and serve to repress and delay the awakening of any real political consciousness.”

John Shaft's character was dramatically less about "the cause" than it was about masculine bravado, status, self-indulgence, materialism, sexuality, misogyny, sleeping with white women, upward social mobility in white society, and fighting bad guys........ and IIRC, Shaft wasn't an actual part of the Black Power movement, but rather that he merely enlisted their help to fight the Mobsters who kidnapped his client's daughter. He didn't fight racism; he fought bad guys for money, status, and everything else that beneficially comes along for the ride with it.

IIRC, nowhere in his backstory did it actually say John Shaft is black, nor did it offer specific details like the color of his skin or his physical appearance that lead us to believe he has to be black. Now, had they gone through the lengths that Ian Flemming did with Bond and physically described Shaft as a black individual, described his mother as a prominent blues singer, father an alumni of the predominantly black Tuskegee University, both parents murdered by the KKK at an anti-racism rally, and John himself attending Tuskegee after transferring from the predominantly black Howard University where he boxed and played on the basketball team, would you think Shaft could plausibly be anything other than a black individual? If you answer no, then it'd be heavily hypocritical of you to believe James Bond could be something other than a white guy, seeing as both situations parallel each other. So I ask you again, how would you feel if Shaft were played by a white actor ?

If you are arguing that race plays an equal role in Bond as it does Shaft, then agree to disagree. James Bonds race is as integral a part of his character as Madea's IMO.

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Shaft is considered by most to be prime example of the blaxploitation genre. While the original story was about a white character the movie changed that. Just looking at the Wikipedia for the movie Shaft, they have a section titled "Major Themes". In that section they only list two themes: "Portrayal of Race" and "Black Power through Masculinity". The clothing, the music were all about Shaft's "blackness". The Shaft character is about being a black detective in Harlem. His being black was an essential element to the character. IMO that was what made it an iconic movie. If a white character had been cast in that role it would simply be another detective movie. I doubt we'd even remember it now.

Are you ****ing kidding me? How does a topic about James Bond and who should be cast in the role next go so far off topic that we are talking about race in Hollywood films?

Back to the original topic. Thanks.

Hmm... Jamie Bell and Tom Hiddleston are the "finalists"

http://uinterview.com/news/jamie-bell-tom-hiddleston-finalists-james-bond-role/

Think I'd prefer Bell between the two, personally.

Too bad, I'd have liked for them to consider a few others as well, including Dan Stevens.

"cuchulainn wrote:

Hmm... Jamie Bell and Tom Hiddleston are the "finalists"

http://uinterview.com/news/jamie-bell-tom-hiddleston-finalists-james-bond-role/

Think I'd prefer Bell between the two, personally.

Too bad, I'd have liked for them to consider a few others as well, including Dan Stevens.

We've done younger starting out Bond. let's have a grizzled verge of retirement Bond. Make him angry, bitter. then cast Hugh Laurie.

"cuchulainn wrote:

Hmm... Jamie Bell and Tom Hiddleston are the "finalists"

waaaat? I actually thought about mentioning Jamie Bell earlier but then I was like, this guy's just shy of 5'7 and weighs about a buck twenty. The Bond girls are bigger than he is.

Jamie Dornan would've been a more intriguing Jamie finalist. He's a great actor, has the look, and if you've seen any of his roles, you know he can take on a lot of forms b/c he's strong at using eye expression to convey emotion & state. He can be really intense.. or mysterious... or confident... or coy & seductive, all the traits you want in Bond. You know what I mean if you've seen him in 'The Fall' as Paul Specter where he's a psychopath, an outstanding performance at that.

For anyone who hasn't seen The Fall, here's a cut up of him that offers a good feel for the show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj5WD2jddm8