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Dave Hyde: How Henne and Henning didn't work together

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/spo...g/2011/01/hyde_how_henne_and_henning_did.html

     
  2. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Serious question because I don't have the time to research it. Is it true Marshall had less then 15 targets in the endzone once we were in the redzone?
     
  3. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Cool...now I can fist pump this one as well.

    This and the Culpepper manifesto are the two greatest pieces of writing I have seen since being part of Fh/TP.C....
     
    SeanP likes this.
  4. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    More proof that it's ALL in the coaching. I'm fairly confident that if we can get a good OC and QB coach Henne can play and play well in this league.
     
  5. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    Great work, as per usual.
     
  6. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Certainly possible. About 1/3rd of Henne's passes went towards Marshall, and Chad only had like 46 passes in the red zone. One could then infer that the 15 red zone targets is about right.
     
  7. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    CK your too modest. The title of this thread should be "Chris Kouffman: How Henne and Henning didn't work together"
     
  8. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    I read that and was floored! Biggest most powerful wr in the league and we don't exploit that in the redzone!
     
  9. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I wouldn't pin that all on Chad, but he certainly shares in the blame. He missed at least 2 gimme TDs to Marshall iirc.
     
  10. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the worst part about this is that this really gives us a skewed view on Henne. It's hard to say what the outcome would have been if we didn't run PA as much.

    I've never seen a QB catch so many unlucky breaks (Receivers falling down on routes, not running the right route, tipping the ball into a defenders hands instead of catching it, etc) that lead to ints. He made quite a few boneheaded ints that were 100% on him though.

    If nothing else, I'd say that these stats suggest that if Chad Henne somehow is our starter in 2011 people shouldn't be rushing to lynch Sparano. The guy deserve a chance to compete for a starting job, because maybe there was something behind his inflated int line that was more due to playcalling than actual skill.
     
    FinFan_Est.1984 likes this.
  11. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Excellent article CK.
    You should email this to Sparano :)
     
  12. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    And I dont know how anyone reads this...and doesnt come away thinking that will the proper coaching....Henne cant be the franchise QB we were hoping for. Not saying you read this and come away knowing that he is....but you at the very least can tell there is more then enough to work with if he has the proper development.
     
  13. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hope everyone reads to the end, including the addendum. THAT..........puts it all in perspective....and I TOTALLY agree, it is/ WAS ......both of them. And Henne is NOT a good QB, just as you said.

    Nice writeup CK. thanks for your efforts.
     
  14. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Loved this piece in club level and glad to see it getting some big time recognition. Shocking that our offensive coaches weren't able to identify these statistics. So glad most of them are gone.
     
    brandon27 likes this.
  15. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    What this tells me is that if you take a young QB with some potential, coach him (and the team) poorly adding in poorly designed game plans not to his strengths you find that the QB will regress. You take away a few INTs and add a couple of TDs instead and you find he is a better version of Phil Simms, the guy Parcels probably wanted when Henne was drafted.
     
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  16. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Funny how it takes this article to start opening up people's eyes.
    Didn't you people see that Henning was putting us behind the eight ball while you were watching the games.
    Good God. Sometimes I just shake my head and wonder.....
     
  17. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    LOL... So, he's not good, huh?

    Would you mind pointing out your reasons for coming to this conclussion. This is your conclussion, right? You don't need to see anymore of him to reach a conclussion, right?
     
  18. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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  19. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    We're gonna argue this round and round.....

    But if you look at the numbers he posted......theres no reason to think he CANT be a good QB. Is he a good one now? No....Im just not ready to think that a good QB coach and OC cant make him into a good QB.

    Look at all the QB's that have made the pro bowl....

    Dante Culpepper
    Derek Anderson
    Gus Frerotte


    In 1995 Jeff George had a 89 Qbr...threw for 4100 yards, 24 Tds and 11 Ints....in 1999 he had a 94 Qbr....

    Jeff Blake

    Look at how good Jake Delhome was at one point.....

    Many so called bad Qb's....have developed into good ones at some point in their career.



    Henne is never going to succeed in my opinion even in the face of bad coaching. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady most likely would have been great QB's regardless.....might not have the same career numbers....but they still would have been good.
     
  20. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    More proof that it's ALL in the coaching. I'm fairly confident that if we can get a good OC and QB coach Henne can play and play well in this league.

    Edit,,, thought i had replied to this from MarinePhinFan

    Here in lies the problem. How much of our problems were henne's? How much were coaching problems? I am not a team gm/scout/personnel guy or coach for a reason,,,, i don't have the knowledge or skill to be one. This organization needs to make big decisions and none is bigger than the qb position. Can henne be THE guy is THE question. i wouldn't be all upset if henne comes back the starter, I wouldn't be all upset if we mortgage some serious draft picks/players to move up and get WHICHEVER qb this staff feels can be our franchise qb. I would be some what miffed to see these guys waffle and invest some 2/3/4 round pick on someone who needs development,, if we recoup our lost 2nd,,, although if its weeden, Ck has me almost sold. I just want a decision, direction, and commitment to solve the qb position.
     
  21. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    All great points.

    And we won't know just how much of last season's problems were Henne's until we see him under a different OC and QB coach. If we had a running game that would be better also. What we DO know is that Henne has shown flashes of being pretty good over his short career. I would also like to see Sparano and Ireland bring in some competition for Henne. Nothing wrong with that at all.


    I could be the greatest guitar player in the world. However, we'd never get to find out if my music teacher keeps putting me on the drums.
     
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  22. krypto

    krypto Banned

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    What kind of analogy is that? Your analogy is implying that the coaches made Henne play a position that he doesnt play....
     
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  23. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am not here to argue, although I will post my thoughts and usually back them up once, then let it go. I dont mind reading what others are arguing. I just try to not let this get to heated because of something I say.

    I believe I have seen enough to know Henne doesnt have........IT. He has terrible touch on his long passes. I dont believe that can be taught. You either have touch, or you dont. An example of that, for me, was watching Seattle play Sat. where Matt. H. threw a couple of odd projectory passes, over defenders to complete it for nice gains. He has touch on the long ball. He understands, without having to sit down and think about it, what it takes to get the ball from me to you, around an obstacle, like a DB, to get the job done. Its different than in college, where, a large percentage of the time, you can just throw it on a line because the WR is so open. Look at the guy in Tampa. He has IT. He can complete it from anywhere, with touch if needed. He knows when to throw it high, or drill it in there, or lead his rcvr to the open side of the field, or what ever. That is just a natural thing, as far as I am concerned. Henne doesnt have that. He either under or overthrows way to many for me. That isnt from a bad play call. That is not having ....IT. The natural ability to process what you need to do and do it the right way to get it done.
    The only thing I am going to say about Hennes...NUMBERS..... You could probably complete that % if given the opportunity since he is mr check down. If you watch how Penny worked the check down and how Henne did it, its not close to the same. Penny hit them on time and led them where they needed to go. Henne just threw it out there, whenever, and gave them little chance to get the YAC. What were his TD to INT ratio. That's what the pros say counts the most. That ratio. He can improve on that, I give you that one. But not by a lot, because of the above weakness. He might do OK in a west coast, quick throw offense, but I am not really sure about that. He reminds me so much of Sage Rosenfelds in every thing except Sage is better off than Henne at the deep ball. Both have consistency problems, both throw Ints. They both have all the physical tools, but something is missing from them both also.
    I have been posting my feelings on Henne the last few days because I see the same guys saying the same things over and over, with good coaching........ Coaching will not teach the IT factor. That is a natural thing.
    Culpepper was only good when he could chuck it up there and let Moss go get it. All that QBR stuff depends so much on the circumstances of the team, its all useless. TD - INTs. What are you PRODUCING on the field? No playcall MAKES Henne throw it where it will get intercepted. He makes THAT call. The rest are just excuses, IMO
     
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  24. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    DID you read the addendum from CKs article? CK says the same thing. As far as MY reasoning........check out post #24 I explained it there. In my words.
     
  25. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    No you didn't. To be honest I didn't read your entire post due to the way it's formatted. But from what I did read you're relying on that mythical "it" factor and your own subjective opinions. Nothing more. No offense, but I don't think I want some guy on the internet telling me who should be the QB for the team I root for. Unless you're some kind of NFL talent evaluator or a former/current NFL GM. Are you either of those things?

    As for the "it" factor I've asked and asked and asked those who believe in this myth to please show me some measurable or tangible proof of just what this "it" is.

    So far, no one has even attempted to answer the question.
     
  26. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    you forgot one important part of playing qb in the NFL though. Henne no good at moving in the pocket, avoiding the rush while keeping his eyes downfield.
     
  27. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    No I didn't "forget" anything. If you want to go over all the things needed to succeed in the NFL as a QB... start a thread. My post was keeping to the point of this thread.
     
  28. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    well to my knowledge CK isnt a current or former NFL GM or scout, so I guess we are all just wasting our time here then. as these are the only people you would feel comfortable getting QB evaluation advice from, correct?
     
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  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Great post. Several people, myself included, have been beating this drum all year. Props to CK for breaking it down so succinctly. Next we need a thread on how Henning handicapped the running game by insisting that we run power plays when it was obvious that Incognito wasn't a good puller. Getting rid of that bum was the best move we'll make all off season. Guaranteed.
     
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  30. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree that coaching is a major problem on the Dolphins. That is the reason I will not be renewing my season tickets next year after being a season ticket holder for the last forty years. I would have renewed my tickets if Ross had hired, Harbaugh, Gruden, or Cowher. He decided instead to keep Sparano, so I'll just keep my money next season. I also agree that Henne is not a good QB. Hopefully after next season, Sparano and Henne will both be coaching and playing somewhere other than for the Miami Dolphins.
     
  31. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    I really tire of having to over-simplify everything.

    I'm assuming you're referring to what I wrote to ATLFINFAN?

    Did you understand what I meant when I said that he was using the "it" factor and subjective opinions?

    Well, CK, in his article, was not.

    Understand?
     
  32. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    im becoming tired of you talking down to people. im all for a lively football discussion, but lets try and stay respectfull. the "it" factor means different things to different ppl. many times Ive heard Jaworski and Steve Young refer to the "it" factor. no one can really explain what it might be as each will see it differently i suppose. i can tell you Chad Henne doesnt possess it.
     
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  33. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    You're right, and I apologize. You're not one of those people I'm talking about. I can see how my post wasn't clear.

    I just don't believe in things like "clutch" or "it" etc etc...
     
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  34. finsbuck719

    finsbuck719 New Member

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    Finally, someone else noticed this. Honestly one of the best Dolphins articles I have seen in a long, long time. I always wondered why we would go play action when we are losing at the end of the game or on 3rd and long plays. 1. It's not fooling any defenses. 2. Why would we be under center in those situations? 3. It takes longer to develop play action plays, which allows the defense some extra time to get to the QB.

    I love how he pointed out the NE and CIN interceptions. I've been pinning those 2 ints on Henning for the longest time and noone ever seems to believe me.
     
  35. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Some people just beat to their own drum.
     
  36. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    i think MANY people have noticed the PA on 3rd and long. lol
     
  37. finsbuck719

    finsbuck719 New Member

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    Maybe. But, I have never seen anyone on here or any other Dolphins forums post anything about play actions. 99% of Dolphins fans put the blame on Chad Henne over Dan Henning no matter what.
     
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  38. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I have the answer and can help both of you out

    IT IS:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K3eotZERd4
     
  39. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    really? ive seen COUNTLESS people call out Dan Henning. go over to Finheaven.com and take a gander at some of the threads there. Dan Henning is called out pretty often. lol
     
  40. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Marino had skill, accuracy, strength, smarts, athleticism, determination, tenacity, heart, size, and work ethic.

    All measurable. All proven. All seen.

    I still have no clue what "it" is.
     

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