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Day 4 Camp tidbits

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by finyank13, Aug 2, 2010.

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  1. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    this is good stuff, Sean Smith cannot play the deep ball, and it is starting to get concerning to me, and the news on Pat White isnt a shock...are they keeping 4 QB's or is he gone?

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...-training-camp-day-4-20100801,0,7057925.story

    Pat White usually doesn't look good at QB, but he looked SUPER bad on Monday morning.

    Brian Hartline beat Sean Smith for a 40-yard pass. It was a great sideline catch but Smith didn't play the ball well.

    Channing Crowder produced two sacks on inside blitz, once forcing Henne to fumble.

    Rookie FS Reshad Jones picked off a Chad Pennington pass intended for Marshall and had a decent return. He also had a nice deflection.

    Getting a glimpse of how the Dolphins will get the ball to Brandon Marshall as X receiver and I like it. Suites Chad Henne's strong arm.
     
  2. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    I think we'll start to see channing become more active in the opposing backfeild for once this season.
     
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  3. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I agree I think with Dansby, Channing will be very good, he cant handle being the man in that corp, but is good when he is free to roam....I would like to see him be that tackle machine again....last year he didnt handle too many responsibilities well before getting injuried...
     
  4. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    Fun stuff but I'm already ready to see some game action... COME ON 14th!!!
     
  5. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Thanks
     
  6. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Here's an interesting Tweet from Omar.

    Something to keep in mind as the battles in camp continue, especially at safety and guard.
     
  7. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    This was pretty evident throughout last season, highlighted when Sam Aiken, let me repeat that for dramatic effect -- Sam Aiken, ate his lunch on a jump ball en route to an 80+ yard touchdown. For those of you who erased the aforementioned play from your memory for purposes of maintaining your mental stability, here's a refresher:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eqyUwAIwL8"]YouTube- Sam Aiken Catch vs. Miami December 6, 2009 Highlight[/ame]

    I'm not ready to bury this guy for his poor execution on one play during his rookie season, but I need to see alot more from this young CB duo (especially Sean Smith) before I start tossing around the lofty comparisons I've seen on this board -- Madison and Surtain -- and if you want to go even further back, Troy Vincent.
     
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  8. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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    Sean Smith really needs to step it up a notch.
     
  9. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    yeah...because other corners never lose jump balls or get beat deep
     
  10. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Youre very correct. However, other corners also get interceptions. That is something Sean Smith does not have.
     
  11. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    What are you talking about?

    The above example was simply one of many instances at various points throughout last year where Smith's lack of awareness down the field hurt the secondary (a play with Braylon Edwards in the endzone during the game @ the Meadowlands also comes to mind). In each of those instances, he was in position to make a play and failed to convert. You combine his lack of awareness down the field with his lack of physicality (certainly not an issue in Vontae's game) and yeah -- I think you have an appropriate basis to question what exactly the Dolphins have in their young cornerback.

    EDIT: And here is exhibit B...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llDtylhECQQ"]YouTube- Braylon Edwards pounds his way into the endzone for the TD - MIA @ NYJ Week 8 2009[/ame]
     
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  12. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Thats not the point, the point is this guy cant play the deep ball good at all....he doesnt get his head turned around in time I have noticed. It happened alot last year, Smith was decent on the short range stuff, but long ball...not so much......that was last year....

    this year, we know Marshall smoked him repeatly the other day, which ehhhh give the kid a break, its Marshall, and the 1st day of camp, but now Hartline?? Dont get me wrong, LOVE Hartline, think he is good, but for the amount of size he has on Hart, shouldnt happend....and for Miami to go far into the playoffs, these long balls cant happen, quick plays, chunk yards, and TD's simply CANNOT happen....you only need to look at the Indy game for an example....that stuff cannot happen I dont know how many times I have to say it...but it cant....
     
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  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Head is awful...the fact that he isnt even ready when the ball is snapped, these types of mistakes cannot happen this year...it is just reality...this happens this year, and Miami is 8-8...if Miami is still generous with giving up long quick strike plays, they are 500 or sub-500...
     
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  14. yousamook

    yousamook New Member

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    Hia-****in-Leah
    IMO i think Vontae Davis and Will Allen will be the starters this season.
     
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  15. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Hopefully he can turn it around.
     
  16. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Which is really strange, because in college he seemed to play the ball really well in the air, and even in the preseason '09 he found it with some consistency.

    I'm just wondering if he's so afraid of losing his man that he forgets about the ball.
     
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  17. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Good news on the LB's so far...Our secondary looks like crap from what I'm hearing.
     
  18. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    All told, I love what the offense looks like on paper and despite some of the departures from the front 7, I'm confident they'll be solid against the run and able to generate pretty consistent pressure on the QB. That said, I am deathly afraid of the production -- or lackthereof -- we could potentially see from the secondary. In today's NFL, I think the FS spot is way too crucial a position to gamble on with the likes of two recent 5th round draft choices. Lastly, I have very real reservations about what types of players we have in our young CB duo acquired last year via the draft (Sean Smith especially). It certainly helps to have Will Allen (a very solid player) back in the fold, but he's coming off reconstructive knee surgery -- typically a two-year recovery time.

    There's no contingency plan for the secondary -- its pretty terrifying.
     
  19. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Reshad Jones seems to be doing his job well so far. One of the concerns the coaching staff has with him was knowing his pre-snap callouts and reads. I haven't been paying too much attention to him so far this camp, but he appears to be around the ball quite a bit so far.

    Can anyone expand upon this further? If true, we may have found our other safety and shored up a MAJOR concern of ours going in to the camp.
     
  20. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    Not surprised about White at all, although I am a bit concerned with Smith...
     
  21. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    You confusing Jones with Clemons? I may be off but I don't recall him having issues with reads and making coverage calls.
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Reshad Jones is a rookie too. So "this camp" is his first :D
     
  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I've been beating this drum since October. Sean has is strengths, but IMO, they are outnumbered by his weaknesses at this point.

    -He's not physical, borderline timid
    -He doesn't get his head around/find the ball in time to make a play
    -He does a poor job re-routing/jamming WRs at the line

    Not finding the ball or getting a good jam is forgivable and correctable. Not using your helmet or shoulder pads is the type of problem that typically doesn't go away with time.

    Smith was primarily a trail technique corner last year, and he'll be pigeonholed into that technique for the foreseeable future if he doesn't start hitting someone. He was beaten deep several times, but there were many occasions where he was beaten deep but the pass was overthrown, not a coincidence IMO. QBs are wary of under-throwing passes in Sean's direction, for obvious reasons. An under thrown ball @ 24 is likely to get picked.

    The other reason for the trail tech is YAC. Sean is no Vontae, he cant be relied upon to come up and make a tackle on a short throw. The trail tech is designed to prevent the short/underneath throw, and for the most part, Sean's lack of physicality wasn't exposed the way it would've been had he been playing in another scheme/coverage. I can live with a CB who doesn't tackle well, or gives up plays, IF he's making big plays for the defense as well. But Sean made no plays last year. He tipped a couple passes into Gibril Wilson's hands (Wilson dropped both) but that's not good enough.

    I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd rather see (a healthy) Will Allen starting in our base packages. Sean would be the nickel, but W Allen would slide inside to cover the slot while Sean stayed outside at RCB. Allen can play any coverage/technique. Having him on the field will help the young FS, and send a message to Sean that he needs to spend less time on Twitter, more time in the film/weight room, and that it's OK to hit someone every once in a while.
     
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  24. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Yeah I agree it seems likea mental thing with Sean

    All that in a pass happy league where you are playing Favre, Flacco, Palmer, Brady (2x), Big Ben, Rodgers, Cutler, and Stafford just to name a few.....say what you want about these guys, some had good years, some had down years, but they can sling it regardless....isnt hard to throw a ball long like Fitzpatrick did against Miami last year in Buffalo, and these guys all can....
     
  25. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    thought my point was pretty straight forward
     
  26. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    his is all over Twitter hahahaha......I would be willing to see Will too, I just wonder how good he is right now at this stage of his injury...
     
  27. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    No, I will have to find the article, but it was specifically about Jones and what the coaching staff needed to see form him. It came out around the time of mini-camps.

    I know he is a rookie. My point was, I have been looking at other positions so far during this camp, thus I haven't paid a ton of attention to him Jones or the other safeties battling it out. :up:
     
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  28. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    i think we 'knew' the secondary would take some more work ... exactly why we have put an emphasis on the DL -- to make up for it with pressure ...
     
  29. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    It can, should, and will happen. Just ask Sam Madison or Surtain. They got beat quite often deep, but what made the difference was that more often than not, the safeties were there to help. No Cb is NOT going to give up a TD to a long ball. It's a fantasy to think otherwise. Signed Tedd Ginn from Revis Island.. :lol:

    The guys only problem last season was getting his head turned around on some plays but for damn sure, the majority of snaps, he won, and from what we saw, he was in great position quite often. For a young Cb, he's done a very good job.
     
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  30. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Both of your examples show him getting beat but, imo a lot of it had to do more with the opposing Wr just making a GREAT play on the ball. This example may be a little better but the Braylon Edwards catch happened lighting fast and was a great throw, and catch. Smith still almost came away with it.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    OZ when are you gonna start earning that badge brother, I need my ozzy fix man.
     
  32. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    So your saying Smith cannot tackle well? I would beg to differ somewhat. He is a pretty decent tackler, but Davis is just excellent and Allen is as well. Smith is far better than Madison ever was and more on the lines of a Surtain when tackling.

    Totally disagree on the trail thing. BUT it would help him to stay more WITH the Wr or keep him more in front of him, if he was better at his line jams. The Cb is almost always keeping some sort of "trail" on his man if it is indeed man to man. He DOES need to be better at his outside techniques and with some practice, it is not too hard to do. It's all about strength and positioning of the hands and hips....
     
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  33. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Sean trails his WR for the most part. Meaning, he'll always be late getting his head around b/c he has his back to the QB and doesn't look for the ball until his WR looks back or raises his hands. If he could read, react, come up and make tackles (like Allen or Davis) he wouldn't have to play trail technique so often. But he cant/won't tackle, his speed and lateral quickness is average, so is his backpedal/transition. If he can improve in those areas, he can eschew the trail technique when needed, and he'll have more opportunities to use those great ball skills of his. Till then, we'll have to live with a lot almosts and near misses. Or start Will Allen.
     
  34. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'll get there a couple times this week. I have some crap going on with FPL at my job and have been totally whooped when i get home. So I have not been able to slip away....
     
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  35. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Well, I would not call trailing a set technique but it's something that Revis excells at. Whenever he is slightly beaten, he simply makes up for it with speed and great movements of his hips. Sean is hardly ever far from his man so I'd say he is not far off if, and sure, it could be a big IF, he works hard. Making tackles though, has nothing to do with what happens in the passing game. He just needs to be more physical and learn to jam his man for an instant. He played more scared to get beat than anything imo and some confidence would go a long long way there...

    I do agree with a lot that you say, just maybe not all the terms or exact reasoning. Not really trying to nitpick but just making convo...
     
  36. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Hey, nitpick all you want man. I learn something new every day from the sharps here, so don't hold back :lol:.

    I say trail technique in the sense that Miami was one of the few teams I've ever seen with CBs who habitually (and purposely) allowed WRs to get behind them, despite the fact that there was likely to be no safety help over the top. I asked a few defensive coaches about this and they suggested it might be b/c Sean's backpedal and transition are average, and his tackling is, well you know. That being the case, coaches might be more inclined to accept the risk of a long pass provided Sean could force a perfect throw. Rather that than allow teams to throw easy/short passes in front of Sean all game long and watch as the WR breaks his tackle attempt and runs for 15-20 yds. Just an idea, but it made sense when I heard it.

    I agree he needs to be more physical, and that's what frustrates me. He plays like a man 40 lbs lighter than he is, and it creates glaring weaknesses in his game. If he he adopts a more physical style, he could easily be an elite corner by year 3-4.
     
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  37. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Tony Sparano running the stairs at camp by self after a two-hour practice.
     
  38. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hmmm...I'm guessing Clemons will start at FS. Donald Thomas at LG and John Jerry at RG?
     
  39. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    im of course hoping sean smith takes that next step as a pro, but will allen was playing pro bowl caliber ball prior to his injury. we got serious talent at cb.
     
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  40. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    this isnt good.......against the 3rd team defense...

    MikeBerardino

    Sparano kept a close eye on third-string offense as Pat White ran things in half-speed drill vs. No. 3 D. Stood close and took notes

    MikeBerardino

    Nice leaping pick by Ross Weaver, rookie DB from Michigan State, vs. White, who locks in on 6-4 Roberto Wallace too much
     

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