Devante Parker has successful foot surgery(replaced screw)-ready for week 1

"ckparrothead wrote:

I think you misunderstood Rapoport's report. He said he will likely start TRAINING CAMP on the PUP list. That's different. He can come off that list at any time during camp.

Putting him on that list is a precaution against the possibility of setbacks in his recovery. If he were to have a setback then you would be happy that you started him on the PUP list in camp because now he's eligible to start the regular season on the PUP list, which means you can get him back as early as Week 7. If he hadn't started camp on the PUP list and he had a setback then you would be faced with either rostering him while he's hurt, or putting him on one of the Injured Reserve lists, be it the one that forces him to miss half the season or the one that forces him to miss the entire season.

Nothing Rapoport said is evidence that he won't be available Week 1.

Thanks.

Good: Dolphins are legitimately four-deep at wide receiver (which is not something I claim just for the hell of it) so they're in good position to deal with this.

Bad: Philbin already uncomfortable with rookies, missing camp and/or preseason will only make him more uncomfortable with Parker. I foresee a lot of frustration as fans and even front office people want to see Parker play more, but Philbin keeps insisting that Jennings plays. Parker's pure production will probably disappoint.

Good: As I said long ago, this could be the issue that gets Philbin fired even if the Dolphins continue to hover around 8-8/9-7.

"jdang307 wrote:

Let's see how important offseason chemistry is ...

lol, this stance of yours is so ridiculous.

You are basically saying in an action that requires two people, that those two don't improve the effectiveness with which they complete that action with practice.

And don't give me your typical standard of accusing me of saying things you aren't saying.

You are flat out saying a WR working more with Tannehill provides no benefit. Its absurd.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Good: Dolphins are legitimately four-deep at wide receiver (which is not something I claim just for the hell of it) so they're in good position to deal with this.

Bad: Philbin already uncomfortable with rookies, missing camp and/or preseason will only make him more uncomfortable with Parker. I foresee a lot of frustration as fans and even front office people want to see Parker play more, but Philbin keeps insisting that Jennings plays. Parker's pure production will probably disappoint.

Good: As I said long ago, this could be the issue that gets Philbin fired even if the Dolphins continue to hover around 8-8/9-7.

I'm going to predict the opposite. I think Parker will make it hard for Philbin not to play him more as the season goes along, and by the 2nd half of the season he'll be taking more snaps than Jennings.

As far as under what conditions Philbin gets fired, I think Ross is patient, but not that patient. 8-8 I think does get him fired. 9-7 is hard to tell and may depend on how the team was playing.

"cbrad wrote:

I'm going to predict the opposite. I think Parker will make it hard for Philbin not to play him more as the season goes along, and by the 2nd half of the season he'll be taking more snaps than Jennings.

The above scenario is not at all mutually exclusive from what I said. In fact it's virtually the same scenario. If it takes half the season before DeVante Parker starts to take more snaps than Greg Jennings, fans and even front office members will be pissed. And the degree to which Philbin insists Jennings be part of the rotation during that second half of the season will also piss people off.

As far as under what conditions Philbin gets fired, I think Ross is patient, but not that patient. 8-8 I think does get him fired. 9-7 is hard to tell and may depend on how the team was playing.

People thought 2014 was playoffs or bust. They certainly thought it was 9-7 or bust. Philbin went 8-8 and Ross gave him a blanket vote of support before the season was even in the books. It took seven consecutive losses to start the 2011 season before Ross decided to fire Tony Sparano. And it took his GM and Head Coach not even being on speaking terms before he decided to make a move on Jeff Ireland, and the form that move ultimately took was an offered promotion.

So you can predict this or that but keep those things in mind.

"ckparrothead wrote:

The above scenario is not at all mutually exclusive from what I said. In fact it's virtually the same scenario. If it takes half the season before DeVante Parker starts to take more snaps than Greg Jennings, fans and even front office members will be pissed. And the degree to which Philbin insists Jennings be part of the rotation during that second half of the season will also piss people off.

It's close to mutually exclusive for the "Parker's pure production will probably disappoint" part. Not sure how he takes over a starting role if his pure production is bad. There's some wiggle room on what "disappoint" there means, but that part is where we predict differently.

"ckparrothead wrote:

People thought 2014 was playoffs or bust. They certainly thought it was 9-7 or bust. Philbin went 8-8 and Ross gave him a blanket vote of support before the season was even in the books. It took seven consecutive losses to start the 2011 season before Ross decided to fire Tony Sparano. And it took his GM and Head Coach not even being on speaking terms before he decided to make a move on Jeff Ireland, and the form that move ultimately took was an offered promotion.

So you can predict this or that but keep those things in mind.

No doubt.. I think the big difference is most of us have a bit less patience than Ross. Ross has even said he cares about stability a lot. But Ross in an interview last year seemed to hint that he has patience but we do need to win now. So, it's a guessing game as to how much Ross cares about stability, but I'd say Philbin at 8-8 is more likely to break that patience barrier than not. Of course, none of us know and in this case I really hope we never find out!

Don't want to derail the thread, but I'm pretty intrigued about the whole interchangeable WRs thing we keep hearing about from OTA reports, paired with Lazor's quick snap concept. Obviously this will depend a lot on the execution of the players, but I think it'll be pretty tough to defend if executed properly, especially for teams that rely mainly on man coverage.

Imagine this scenario: we're lined up and got Jarvis Landry in the slot, Greg Jennings to the right, and Kenny Stills to the left, with Jordan Cameron at TE. We run the play, manage to gain yards, then huddle up for the next play...

We then suddenly break the huddle and quickly line up, but now you've got Landry to the left, Kenny Stills to the right and Greg Jennings in the slot. We then motion Cameron to WR and snap the ball, all in under a few seconds. You'll have the whole secondary and LBs stumbling to find their assigned receivers and someone will be sure to screw up, leaving one of our guys wide open. As I said before, this will depend a lot on execution, but I have way more faith in this group of receivers than I did in last season's.

"Brasfin wrote:

Don't want to derail the thread, but I'm pretty intrigued about the whole interchangeable WRs thing we keep hearing about from OTA reports, paired with Lazor's quick snap concept. Obviously this will depend a lot on the execution of the players, but I think it'll be pretty tough to defend if executed properly, especially for teams that rely mainly on man coverage.

Imagine this scenario: we're lined up and got Jarvis Landry in the slot, Greg Jennings to the right, and Kenny Stills to the left, with Jordan Cameron at TE. We run the play, manage to gain yards, then huddle up for the next play...

We then suddenly break the huddle and quickly line up, but now you've got Landry to the left, Kenny Stills to the right and Greg Jennings in the slot. We then motion Cameron to WR and snap the ball, all in under a few seconds. You'll have the whole secondary and LBs stumbling to find their assigned receivers and someone will be sure to screw up, leaving one of our guys wide open. As I said before, this will depend a lot on execution, but I have way more faith in this group of receivers than I did in last season's.

You know.. one of Tannehill's weaknesses up till now has been the ability to run a hurry up offense (whether it be no huddle or 2-minute/4-minute). His decision making is going to have to be a lot faster between plays in order to properly execute what you describe.

But yeah, we have the WR/TE personnel to do serious damage at least in theory.

"cbrad wrote:

You know.. one of Tannehill's weaknesses up till now has been the ability to run a hurry up offense (whether it be no huddle or 2-minute/4-minute). His decision making is going to have to be a lot faster between plays in order to properly execute what you describe.

But yeah, we have the WR/TE personnel to do serious damage at least in theory.

This isn't a hurry up offense though. It's Lazor's concept of quickly lining up, motioning and snapping the ball, which we tried to do last season, but for some reason it took a lot longer than he would have liked. Part of it is on Tannehill, but I think a big part is on the other offensive players in general. I think with another season under Tannehill's and the OL's belts, it will be closer to what Lazor wants. Which is why I think it'll depend mostly on the WRs who are new to the offense...

Kenny Stills did a lot of damage from the slot and Greg Jennings has a history of being used in the slot at least half the time. These are probably the driving forces behind the continued talk about moving the WRs between positions.

Problem is Philbin has TALKED about that since he got here. But he's done the exact opposite during games. Few teams have had their wide receivers more structurally anchored to their positions than the Miami Dolphins from 2012 to 2014. Especially 2013.

Maybe that finally changes this year. If it does, like I said I think it's because Stills does an especially good job in the slot and in motion, and Greg Jennings also has a strong slot history.

I agree with the sentiment that the likely, and hugely sucky, thing that comes out of this is that it gives Philbin an excuse to not play Parker, and/or minimize him in the gameplan. He looks for any excuse he can find to play a less talented veteran over a rookie as it is.

Silver lining, extreme optomist view: At least he won't blow out a knee in camp if he's on the sideline with a foot injury :unsure:

By no means is this ideal or a good thing for the Dolphins. But, let's all take a deep breath cause the sky isn't falling and it's June. Yes, I'd like him to get as many reps as possible but let's take a serious look this.

Replacing the screw, is viewed from what I've seen for the long-term investment (pretty big deal). Mando, stated it's very similar to the injury Jelani had last year that kept him out a game, and also said if it were in season he'd be ready to go.

Positives:
-Long term health of DVP
- Being done in June
- Falls into a position that may be our deepest and most talented

Negatives:
- Valuable repetitions and practice time
- Condition for DVP
- Chemistry

I hate foot injuries for WR's but Julio Jones had this same injury and judging by last year he looked fine, actually more like Elite.

I agree with some points made where this could factor into Philbin's Trust with Rookies, meaning if he hasn't practiced he could fear putting him into the game (foolish). The talent is evident and hopefully Lazor puts his foot down.

One underlying theme unlike past regimes, this is why you signed a proven Veteran in Greg Jennings, and despite my preference to trade Matthews for something this is why he has value to keep. Our unit will be fine regardless and from all reports seems he will be good to go for Week 1.

FYI, Odell Beckham missed all of Training Camp and went on to went OROY, we will be fine.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Kenny Stills did a lot of damage from the slot and Greg Jennings has a history of being used in the slot at least half the time. These are probably the driving forces behind the continued talk about moving the WRs between positions.

Problem is Philbin has TALKED about that since he got here. But he's done the exact opposite during games. Few teams have had their wide receivers more structurally anchored to their positions than the Miami Dolphins from 2012 to 2014. Especially 2013.

Maybe that finally changes this year. If it does, like I said I think it's because Stills does an especially good job in the slot and in motion, and Greg Jennings also has a strong slot history.

This WR is far more versatile than anything Philbin has had to work with so if the interchangeable parts aren't being interchanged then yeah, we have an issue.

I'm looking forward to seeing more two TE sets, especially vs teams with strong front 7s. Go with Sims at TE and put Cameron out wide with a Stills/Landry in the slot and Jennings/Parker at flanker. Who's gonna stay in base vs that look? Teams that go nickel will have a tough time stopping the run/read option. And that's before we even get to utilizing a 5 deep WR corps.

I envision flanker and bubble screens being more of a threat this year. Smash combos, dig-post, 4 verticals, on paper the guys we have now can attack any coverage or area of the field from virtually any alignment. Obviously it comes down to pass protection and staying balanced but I see a lot of reasons to be excited provided that Albert is healthy and the OL holds up.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I agree with the sentiment that the likely, and hugely sucky, thing that comes out of this is that it gives Philbin an excuse to not play Parker, and/or minimize him in the gameplan. He looks for any excuse he can find to play a less talented veteran over a rookie as it is.

Silver lining, extreme optomist view: At least he won't blow out a knee in camp if he's on the sideline with a foot injury :unsure:

I'm not seeing how being injured and missing time is an excuse. Not when there are three or four guys, all of whom have been productive, already on the roster and healthy. Why rush Parker into action when Jennings, Landry, Stills, Matthews, Cameron are available?

Philbin is anal about route running, this we know. He wants this release vs a press corner and that release vs a cloud corner, he wants the route broken off at 8 yards vs this coverage and 12 yards vs that coverage. If Parker is struggling to pick it up I have no issue w him being eased into the offense slowly. Again, we have guys who can get the job done as he gets healthy and learns the intricacies of the offense.

"Fin D wrote:

lol, this stance of yours is so ridiculous.

You are basically saying in an action that requires two people, that those two don't improve the effectiveness with which they complete that action with practice.

And don't give me your typical standard of accusing me of saying things you aren't saying.

You are flat out saying a WR working more with Tannehill provides no benefit. Its absurd.

I don't think it's that absurd. By no means does working in the offseason hurt, but I think Parker will be just fine, maybe we'll use Jennings a bit more early on and ease him into the lineup.

Immediately 2012 comes to mind Tannehill's rookie year when Hartline missed the entire offseason and preseason (I think) and then has his first 1,000 yard season with a rookie throwing him the ball.

I think we can relax a little. Fixing it now is better than not fixing it. He's still gonna be a beast!

"ckparrothead wrote:

Good: Dolphins are legitimately four-deep at wide receiver (which is not something I claim just for the hell of it) so they're in good position to deal with this.

Bad: Philbin already uncomfortable with rookies, missing camp and/or preseason will only make him more uncomfortable with Parker. I foresee a lot of frustration as fans and even front office people want to see Parker play more, but Philbin keeps insisting that Jennings plays. Parker's pure production will probably disappoint.

Good: As I said long ago, this could be the issue that gets Philbin fired even if the Dolphins continue to hover around 8-8/9-7.

Don't get our hopes up! Remember who our owner is!!

Due to Philbin, our depth chart, and the usual rookie learning-curve for wideouts, I wasn't expecting much from him early on anyway. Get this taken care of for the long-term. I imagine he can still serve as a nice RZ piece for most of the year, which is where we were going to feel his biggest impact anyway, imo.

The concern this raises is basically...another injury would REALLY suck. Especially Cameron, which is unfortunate because that's like his thing. But we still have options on the outside, and may even be more free to split Cameron out there more often where he's quite effective. Landry says he wants to play on the perimeter more too, though I'm not too optimistic.

This is not a huge loss, but another would be a blow. A small piece of me is happy that Mathews may get some more snaps as I still think he's legit and needs opportunities.

"Piston Honda wrote:

This WR is far more versatile than anything Philbin has had to work with so if the interchangeable parts aren't being interchanged then yeah, we have an issue.

I'm looking forward to seeing more two TE sets, especially vs teams with strong front 7s. Go with Sims at TE and put Cameron out wide with a Stills/Landry in the slot and Jennings/Parker at flanker. Who's gonna stay in base vs that look? Teams that go nickel will have a tough time stopping the run/read option. And that's before we even get to utilizing a 5 deep WR corps.

I envision flanker and bubble screens being more of a threat this year. Smash combos, dig-post, 4 verticals, on paper the guys we have now can attack any coverage or area of the field from virtually any alignment. Obviously it comes down to pass protection and staying balanced but I see a lot of reasons to be excited provided that Albert is healthy and the OL holds up.

I don't think that's going to happen. It would have if they had kept Clay on top of signing Cameron but they didn't do that. Their base offense in 2014 was a 3-WR/1-TE personnel package. They used that package a super majority of the time, something like 90+ percent. Now that they've added Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker and Greg Jennings...that's not going to go down. If anything it could go up even more.

Well, makes the signing of Greg Jennings more important.

I more have eyes fixed on Cameron Jordan, Wr's are not that difficult to replace (imo) Clay was huge in the offense, if Jordan does not live up to expectations we are in a bad way

In my dreams: Philbin under-utilizes Devante all year, Tannenbaum is in Ross' ear and Philbin is fired. Lazor promoted to HC. Parker returns, as does a now-motivated Dion Jordan after his suspension and with a Head Coach who connects with him.

Playoffs ensue.

Then I wake up.

"ckparrothead wrote:

I don't think that's going to happen. It would have if they had kept Clay on top of signing Cameron but they didn't do that. Their base offense in 2014 was a 3-WR/1-TE personnel package. They used that package a super majority of the time, something like 90+ percent. Now that they've added Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker and Greg Jennings...that's not going to go down. If anything it could go up even more.

But if they consider Cameron as more of a WR on some plays, they'll theoretically have 2 TEs on the field (Cameron and Sims) while still keeping true to the 3-WR/1-TE package that you state. I think they could play around with the idea of moving Cameron quite a bit.

"thejetssuck wrote:

Don't get our hopes up! Remember who our owner is!!

Whoa! Just saw a ghost for a second. You reminded me of someone else :wink2:

"Brasfin wrote:

But if they consider Cameron as more of a WR on some plays, they'll theoretically have 2 TEs on the field (Cameron and Sims) while still keeping true to the 3-WR/1-TE package that you state. I think they could play around with the idea of moving Cameron quite a bit.

They split Charles Clay off the formation like a wide receiver about half the time in 2014. That didn't make them any more likely to use 2-TE sets.

What I'm saying is if you are increasing your use of 2-TE sets then you are decreasing the number of snaps given to the WR unit. But the WR unit has a lot of higher profile players in it now, between Kenny Stills, DeVante Parker and Jarvis Landry, and even Greg Jennings. You'd rather have any of those guys on the field than Dion Sims unless there's a structural problem in the defense you're facing that you think you can exploit.

I think you're totally right, CK. I think that Sims will only really get on the field in short yardage/goal line packages and when Cameron needs a breather. He's about the 7th or 8th best receiving option that we have now.