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Did Henne just take another baby step in his development?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by adamprez2003, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Check your facts. McNabb is a VETERAN QB yet his QB rating is only 0.6 higher than Henne's. :lol:

    McNabb: 77.1 rating..... 14 TDs.... 15 INTs..... 58.3%
    Henne: 76.5 rating...... 13 TDs..... 15 INTs..... 60.5%

    Yup, McNabb's really putting young Henne to shame.

    All these guys you mentioned have VERTICAL THREATS & TEs who can stretch the field and make plays!!! Orton is the ONLY one who doesn't have both, although he has a stud surrounding cast at WR!!

    You really don't understand what it means to create space for your offense to work under do you? ...... and you clearly disregard the importance of a stud TE & reliable vertical threat and how much they help a QB (especially a young QB). You seem to think 2 good WRs and 1 average WR are ALL that a QB needs to succeed. Don't think you'll win this argument if you took it up with an NFL QB. LOL.
     
  2. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    With all due respect, If Manning can go 1-4 with 13 INTs in 5 games with a more talented surrounding cast than Miami has, then I really don't see how your comment holds any truth. Even he couldn't come in here and do something with only Marshall, Bess, 2 undrafted rookies, a slow TE, and no legit outlet back..... or even worse: Bess, 2 undrafted rookies, Fasano, and no legit outlet back. No one could make anything with that. This is why talent is talent; it's why first round picks are paid more than 7th round picks and expected to produce more than 7th round picks.

    The Colts KNOW the Peyton can NOT do it by himself which is why he's had 8 1st round skill players surrounding him throughout his career. A QB can ONLY be as good as the talent he has to work with lets him. I've never (or rarely) seen a HOF QB emerge with a average cast..... heck, you rarely see a ProBowl QB emerge with an average cast. Our group as a whole (WR, TE, RB) is no more than average.
     
  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    and this type of philosophy drives me nuts b/ it places SOOO MUCH PRESSURE on an offense to be perfect and operate at a high level for 16 games. I think you'd have to agree that this type of philosophy is NOT conducive for a young QBs development.
     
  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    They don't have a worse ground game then us. They simply prioritize the passing game. They have much better backs than we do (who are geared more for helping out Manning in the passing game rather than pounding it on the ground. Their pass sets up the run.)

    "Outside of Wayne"? :huh: I like how you conveniently removed one of the best WRs in the game to support your argument.... as if he's small potatoes. Garcon is better than Hartline.... Tamme is a MUCH better receiving TE threat than Fasano..... Blair White puts Wallace and Moore to shame..... and there is NO comparing Ricky or Ronnie to Donald Brown out of the backfield.

    How about when we remove Marshall from the equation? I like how you don't address that aspect even though he's missed 2.5 games when our passing game has stunk. W/o Marshall, we flat out STINK at skill position talent. Has Manning been w/o Wayne? NO.
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    He took over for a team that was SET. Nice try to use the previous year as if he came in and changed it all. Stats don't work in this case..... at least not for anyone who watched that season.
     
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Give me a break!!! Marshall has missed 2.5 games recently (which is when people have been really calling for Henne's head).

    Marshall------ 11 games with Miami and Henne............. Reggie Wayne------- 10 years with Manning.
    Fasano------- 3rd year as a starter (2nd with Henne)......... Dallas Clark------- 8th year starting with Manning.
    Bess---------- 3rd year in NFL. (2nd with Henne).............. Pierre Garcon------ 3rd year in NFL (2nd starting with Manning)
    Hartline------ 2nd year in NFL......................................... Austin Collie--------- 2nd year in NFL

    WR
    Wallace------ UNDRAFTED ROOKIE
    Moore--------UNDRAFTED ROOKIE
    Pruitt---------UNDRAFTED ROOKIE
    Foster--------2nd year (NO NFL STATS)

    TE
    Mustrad------UNDRAFTED ROOKIE
    Epps---------UNDRAFTED ROOKIE
    Shuler------- 7th round ROOKIE


    PLEASE TELL ME YOU DON'T BUY THIS GARBAGE you're trying to push!!! Take away an injured Marshall, and we have NO ONE with more than 3 years of starting experience.

    If our WRs/TEs don't scream inexperienced then I don't know what does! For someone who constantly tries to pull out his "red marker" to correct everyone's posts, you are REALLY showing a lack of football intelligence with a post like this.

    I'd think someone of your football smarts would know that there's a 3 year curve in the NFL FOR A REASON that pertains to players first entering the league. According to the 3 year curve, we have ONLY 2 GUYS at WR/TE who have met this curve. However, we have 8 guys who have been in the league for 1 full season or less, 6 of those are rookies, and 5 of them are UNDRAFTED ROOKIES. It doesn't get very much more inexperienced than this!!!
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Delhomme had some serious talent on the field (guys who forced defenses to defend the entire field). Henne doesn't have that luxury. Just sayin.
     
  8. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Of course your reply would be something snide about Henne when you have no clear rebuttal. :wink2:
     
  9. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    you hear this from a lot of folks at the game, receivers being open and Henne just unable to find them. He cant go through his progressions, so if its not his main WR, hes not going to see him. hes going to hit the TE for a 2 yard game right in front of him.

    these are things we cant see at home.
     
  10. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    OK...They were good..but how may I ask did they magically become a great team when just the season before they were 5-11? 8-8 year before. so its not like that just had a down year with a bunch of injuries.

    Yes outside of Wayne meaning he is better then anyone on our offense. I didnt exclude him in the overall talent evaluation. and are you serious, they have better backs then us? LMAO! Donald Brown and Javaris James? Better? oh god...

    So funny how you fail to mention Bess in that argument. I dont think Garcon is better then Hartline personally, and I would take either Moore or Wallace over White. Blair White sucks. Not that Moore or Wallace are any better, but White is worse. Manning makes anyone look like that. Tamme is MORE productive because of Manning. He is not a MUCH better receiving TE by any means. What makes him better?

    Why would you want to draft Dez Bryant? He ran a 4.5!?!?!?

    never said McNabb was putting him to shame, I said he was playing better.

    Orton has a stud surrounding cast at WR? LMAO! His top 3 wideouts are Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, and Eddie Royal....seriously?

    Im not saying a seam busting TE isnt important, but for the most part, they arent making a big impact of these guys? i understand that helping open up the offense doesnt show up on the stat sheet...But Jay Cutlers TE is 5th on the team in receiving, Orton's 7th, Rodger's 6th, Manning's 4th, and Fitzpatrick's 4th. Wheres Sam Bradfords seam bursting TE?

    Peyton, Orton, Fitzpatrick, and Detriots QB...all their TEs average 10 YPC or LESS!

    Infact, Chad Henne's TE, averaged 5th in NFL with 13.7 YPC. More then ANY TE that plays with any of the QBs I mentioned. So its really hard to argue that Fasano simply can not get vertical, but yet all those other guys actually DO.

    You seem to think that 2 good WRs, 1 average WR, 1 average TE, a good pass blocking OL is not good enough to succeed in the NFL at the QB position. Dont think you'll win that argument if you took it up with any NFL QB. LOL
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    75 was good against Oakland, especially with henne throwing him the ball. 70 was good against Chicago with a horrible game plan and Thigpen looking completely lost.

    he would have over 100 yards and two touchdowns if not for Chad henne's horrible downfield passing.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    He does have a TE that can threaten the seam and a WR that stretches the field.

    He cannot make all the downfield throws. He is still really bad at any long touch pass and he no longer can make long throws.
     
  13. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    TP. Give it up bro. You use stats to attempt to make your opinion valid and when someone else does the same thing you say stats don't work for their case. You are the epitome of a player homer. Henne is not the player everyone thought.
     
  14. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Lol,I should have known the most intelligent (in his own mind) on this site.Brady sure sucked yesterday in 40 mph winds and snow.Hell anybody can play in those conditions and throw for 369 yds and 2 tds.I guess he won't deserve the 2010 mvp because this guy doesn't think he deserves it.
     
  15. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Damn!

    I thought I flushed...
     
  16. m ino

    m ino New Member

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    not nearly,other than a couple passes he was awful.when the line didn't fall apart he was horrible.a baby step would be winning 2 in a row and thats him winning them not our defense so he still hasn't accomplished that feat yet.it's a shame our only other qb is thigpen otherwise henne would probly still be benched.
     
  17. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    I'm still waiting for you to show the thread or post where people compared henne to brady or manning.

    Once again, nearly ANY QB in the league would play lights out on the Pats of the 2000's. It's already been proven when Cassell started his first season since high school, hell, his first GAME since high school and played very well.

    Again though, your attempt at a strawman is pathetic. You put in bold a request of mine and showed nothing. I asked for pictures of a 'Vette and you showed us a Pinto.

    Good work though, "pumpdogs" is impressed. LMFAO!
     
  18. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    Or... he may not and we will be having the same conversation 2-3 years from now.

    Who knows, you could be right or you could be wrong. I just don't want to really risk a 1st round pick on a QB, when we have a QB thats passable, I would rather use it on another position.
     
  19. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Wow,you got me there.Funny guy.
     
  20. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    In the name of your chosen god man. THE POINT IS THAT HE STILL SUCKED BUT A TEAM WAS AROUND HIM THAT MASKED HIS SUCK AT THAT POINT!
     
  21. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    If someone really thinks the Jags have a worse supporting cast, the Raiders have worse RB's, the Dolphins have a good O-Line and that Denver doesn't have good receivers doesn't deserve to be debated.
     
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  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    They were more of a veteran team than we are now. They made less mistakes as a whole; had better coaching; and had a defense that was pretty much lights out from beginning of the season (17 pts/game). Us on the other hand are young and inexperienced all across the board. We're coming together on defense but we don't have the coaching, Oline, or veteran experience at WR/TE for the most part.



    Donald Brown and Joseph Addai are better backs than Ronnie and Ricky. R&R are one dimensional. Brown is a better receiving back than Ronnie or Ricky.





    because Dez Bryant is a playmaker. He's the 4th pass catcher on the team behind Austin, Witten, and Williams, yet he's 3rd on the team in receiving yards and 1st on the team in TDs. He also returns punts (which we aren't the greatest at). Dez running a 4.5 doesn't matter. Who cares if a DB catches up to him; they're not gonna out-fight him for the ball. You can't say the same for Hartline. Dez should be double covered; cant say that for Hart. Dez will make you pay in single coverage; can't say that for Hart. Dez is a threat to score whenever he touches the ball; Hart is NOT. If you're a playmaker like Dez is with a size/leaping advantage, then you can afford to have 4.5 speed. Hartline has none of this; Brian's not a threat to juke or run over 5 players in route to a 50 yard TD. You can't trust him on a lob. He doesn't return punts for TDs.... and he doesn't command double coverage.

    Dez would've helped to even up the coverage so Marshall could make more plays..... and even though Dez only runs a 4.5, defenses still have to respect the deep pass because of his size/ strength advantage, ability to highpoint, and out-battle or out position a DB.

    BACKUP QB Jon Kitna with a 77 career QB rating OVER 14 YEARS has an 89 rating with 13 TDs in 8 games BECAUSE OF THE TALENT AROUND HIM. The surrounding talent makes the QB, not the other way around. The Cowboys have 3 pass catchers playing better than ANY 1 of ours. That's sad.



    He's not playing better. He's playing about the same.

    Lloyd is a top WR in the league this year. That's a laugh? He's 3rd in yards, 5th in TDs, has a 19 yard average, and is clearly OUTPLAYING Marshall. He's more than just a stupid possession WR.... he's a vertical threat.
    -Royal is a tough 4.39 guy.... and if his 1930 yards and 10 TDs (2 on returns) in 3 years is a laugh, then so is Bess's 1985 yards and 6 TDs.
    -Gaffney is a veteran and more reliable & productive than Hartline over the past 2 years (that's not debatable).
    -It's nice of you to leave out Demaryius Thomas, their 1st round pick. Yeah, he has zero talent. The kid's a beast and was drafted to replace Marshall.
    -Moreno isn't a slouch either.... but I guess you'd rather have Ricky or Ronnie instead. :shifty:

    The last I checked, Bradford isn't lighting the NFL on fire. lol. He's having a good rookie year, and that's it. If he wants to get to the next level, he need a big body over the middle to help him out. It doesn't matter how many yards they have as much as what their presence provides. Those guys outside of them will catch more balls and make more plays b/c defenders have to worry about the TE beating them. That's huge. Look at the passing production from the teams you mentioned, too. It's pretty good last I checked.
    They're going to have less yards b/c of the nature of their position. They're not going to run "as many" routes as WRs that will allow them to have greater gains. Try telling the opponents of Indy, Chicago, and Detroit that they don't need to worry about Dallas Clark, Greg Olsen's or Scheffer/Pettigrew's 10 YPC presence. lol. Their 10 YPC isn't what's important. Their "threat of the big play" at any given time is what's important. That changes the ENTIRE dynamics.


    He has more YPC but he doesn't change the dynamics of anything. Teams don't stay up at night wondering how they can make sure Fasano doesn't gash them for 100+ yards etc. I didn't know 13 yards was considered "vertical". lol. He's only had a few intermediate catches. Much of his gains has come from short passes/screens where he's had some daylight (hence his 5 or 6 yard YAC), but he's not beating teams over the top like these other guys are. That's where we're lacking.


    you're leaving out "what happens when these guys get hurt and there's no depth behind them to where it becomes: 2 good WRs, 2 horrible WRs, 1 ave TE, 1 horrible TE, an Oline that's giving you no time b/c your rt tackle is like a New Orleans dam or your passing lanes are less than stellar, and you have no outlet back who can scamper for some easy chunk yards. :tongue2: But I respect how the wheels in your noodle are churning.
     
  23. F.O

    F.O New Member

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    No emotion or will to win. No pocket presence, slow feet, clumsy, poor decision maker, has no athleticism to speak of, no touch, terrible fundamentals (slow as molasses release, low release point, poor in the shotgun, etc.), picks the wrong throwing lanes, has more batted balls at the line than any QB in the league, inaccurate , can't beat shell coverages, stares down receivers constantly...

    But other than that, he is a pretty good QB.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    If Oakland's secondary weren't riddled with injury, he might've had zero receptions. :tongue2: And he got open what--- 1 time in the Browns game. I'd rather have consistency throughout a game rathered than some scattered open routes. lol.
     
  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Who are they? lol. I didn't know we signed some guys in the past few hours. :tongue2:
     
  26. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    How can one man be the savior and **** so many times in one season? Ravens game? ****! Titans game? WOOOO! (except some idiots). Raiders game? **** YEAH! Brown game? **** YOU! Jets WIN? **** YOOOUUU! I mean seriously, don't ignore what is obviously the ups and downs of a guy still learning on the job.
     
  27. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm not talking about Henne so please don't tell me what or who I'm talking about. I'm talking about our skill players. Oh yeah, that's right----- I can't say anything about them b/c the only reason they don't threaten the entire field, catch every ball, break off more big plays, is ALL BECAUSE OF HENNE. How dare me to suggest that we're actually deficient at our skill positions as a whole. Sorry, but I could use your logic against you and say this makes you a "Miami Dolphin skill position" homer. :lol:

    There are times to use stats, and there are times when stats don't tell the whole truth. I merely use them when they matter.
     
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Brady had WRs running open all over the field yesterday.... and when you hit an open guy at 12 yards with no one around him, then he's gonna pick up a ton of YAC in the snow will he not? Brady's pass catchers allow him to have a huge day even in the snow. It's like shottin fish in a barrel for him. lol.
     
  29. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    people are bashing Henne and how rough it is with him developing, yet they want Cam in here to save the day?! LMAO. Starting a rookie QB like Cam will set us back for another year at least. People think he's gonna march right in here and learn the NFL while lighting up complex secondaries right away are in for a fun treat. :lol: (massive amount of sarcasm)
     
  30. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    no kidding! :pity: There's nothing homerish about giving a young QB his due time to develop...... but it IS homerish to give this entire an offense a pass b/c IT'S ALL THE QBs FAULT.

    Thinking that our collective of WRs, TEs, RBs, Oline blocking is "good as a whole" is pretty funny. I watch a lot of NFL games every week, and as much as I love Miami, I'm not going to "upgrade" our offensive talent level into something it's not.

    Defense on the other hand.... yeah, I'll go there.
     
  31. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Go back to the 3:25 minute mark of the 3rd QTR. Henne puts the ball in a perfect place for Marshall to go up and get it. Only thing is BM doesn't. Hitch in his step and mistimed any attempt for a jump. Marshall has to make that play. That was his type of ball.

    Long throw and our best WR lost focus and showed limited effort IMO........
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Raiders do have a bad offensive line and wide receivers that are bad at getting open
     
  33. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Show me where I said something about the Raiders having a good O-Line and WR's.
     
  34. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Its certainly not a strawman to question whether you have any clue as to what constitutes good Quarterback play.

    Based on your above comments about Brady, you have no idea.

    Whatever credibility you had just left the building.

    And FYI, that Cassel guy you love to use in an effort to minimize what Brady has accomplished in his career -- here's his numbers in KC this season:

    59.9 Completion %, 2,503 Yards, 7.07 YPA, 23 TD and 4 INTs - 98.4 QBR
     
  35. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Who said the raiders had worse RBs? and have you not been watching all year? Our OL has been fantastic in pass blocking department most the year.
     
  36. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Im done with this debate because its obvious you are a blind homer for Henne for whatever reason. NO one said it was all his fault.
     
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  37. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If I were a Jets fan. I would be questioning whether Sanchez was the long term answer at QB or not. The difference between Henne and Sanchez is that Henne was a four year starter at Michigan. Sanchez only stated for one year at USC. You would expect that Henne would be much further along right now than Sanchez. This though is not the case. While I would guess that the Jets want to give Sanchez at least another year as the starter before making a decision on his long term future. I think Henne has clearly shown that he is not the answer for the Dolphins. I suspect that with limited options in the draft or free agency. The Dolphins will be stuck with Henne again next year. So while he will get perhaps another chance to show improvement. I just don't think he has what it takes to lead the Dolphins over the long term. Based on how careful Sparano has been in letting Henne run the offense. It doesn't appear that he is any more confident in Henne's ability than I am. So Henne may end up at QB next year because the Dolphins have no other option. As far as his long term future in Miami. I would be totally surprised if Henne is still playing QB in Miami once the 2012 season rolls around.
     
  38. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think this post shows the problem. The expectations shouldn't be different b/c he was a four year starter at Michigan. The NFL is a different animal. Also you have to take into account the play calling and the surrounding weapons. Almost every reasonable person has realized that Henne was put in a situation by the play calling that gave him very little chance of success. Despite that he still improved over last year. That doesn't mean he will ever be the franchise QB we want, but it does mean he's still improving. And anybody who doesn't think that the play calling can have a huge impact on the way a QB looks just doesn't understand football. Padre put up his Henne watch thread and some people complained that the bar was too low. Those people have clearly out of whack expectations for what second year QBs generally do. I was not in favor of drafting Henne b/c I didn't see an elite prospect, but I see no reason to believe that he can't develop into an Eli Manning level QB with the right weapons and an offense that suits his skills. I still want to draft another QB, but the reality is that we are unlikely to be able to bring in a QB that will give us a better chance to win over the next couple of seasons.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That was a very insulting post. Even with the poor playcalling Henne has not improved. His reads are slow and his decision making is suspect.

    You said it best last year, "There is no defense for the perfect pass." Too many of Henne's passes are easily defensed due to their lack of being good passes.

    his pocket awareness is still amazingly horrible, making the line look much worse at pass blocking than it is. The funny part is the pass blocking hasn't been that bad at all. It has been the best in years.

    Some people are not out of whack with what they expect for a second year QB, some people would like to see more improvement. In his second year I expected him to be a better quarterback than Jay Fiedler.
     
  40. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I definitely think there's enough blame to go around here. A lot of things and people (Henne included) are certainly complicit in this.

    The only thing, however, that bothers me about Henne is that he was a 4 year starter at Michigan. And I'm betting that this fact may be part of the reason for Parcell's supposed disappointment in him. I would think that some of his issues could have (or should have) been ironed out by now.
     

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