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Differences in coaching from last year to this year,

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pauly, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Certainly it is a positive, but hard to say its impressive until we see the results.

    Its easy to put guys in position to do what they're good at during preseason when defenses won't gameplan for it. But it becomes a much more difficult when defenses try to take away those things. At some point defenses are going to force the players into what they're doing things they aren't good at. That is when Gase will earn his salary.
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Difference in coaching is that pass blocking is much better this year.

    last season the 4th preseason game was the quarterbacks running for their lives.
     
  3. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Worth noting though that in the big preseason weeks (2&3) we played two teams who have huge deficiencies in their pass rush in Dallas and Atlanta. We may not see pass rushes that weak the whole regular season. Certainly not in our 6 division games.

    I do think our pass pro will be better, but maybe not THAT much better like it seemed in preseason.

    Broken record, but I do think Gase gets us to 10-6. He's that much better than Philbin right off the bat, imo. Potentially a star coach, one of the better offensive minds in the League. Just need the secondary to not be abysmal...
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That did not matter last preseason
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think that's more a difference in personnel. First game of the preseason Dallas Thomas is with the first stringers and in only 8 snaps or whatever Tannehill was running for his life.

    Branden Albert and Ja'Wuan James made it all the way through preseason. Laremy Tunsil was the main dude at LG starting in second game of the preseason. Jermon Bushrod and Billy Turner got most RG snaps and they're both better than Dallas Thomas. Anthony Steen did replace Mike Pouncey at center but the center is never really a huge pass protection weakness anyway.
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I am not talking about the starters.
    The lay
    Last few years the backups would come in and it would be a dumpster fire
     
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Isn't that what he's saying though?

    Do you really think CK, of all people, doesn't realize preseason is different than regular season?
     
  8. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I think its pretty obvious that Gase was brought here to fix Tannehill, and Gase thinks Tannehill is fixable, or good enough at the very least. It begs the question: when was the last time an elite, or even good coach had success in this situation?
    Ariens brought in his own guy.
    Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick in the second but had success with Smith in the meantime (before replacing him).
    And Belichick at least seemed willing to work with Bledsoe, but we all know how that turned out. For me Bledsoe and Tannehill are two peas in a pod. I wonder how long Belichick would have kept building around Bledsoe had Brady not fell in his lap? How much success would he have had with Bledsoe?

    Personally, I think what we're trying to accomplish is highly unlikely to work. A new regime having success with incumbent QB after the old regime was fired hardly ever works, its rare for even successful teams/QBs and maybe unheard of for losing teams/QBs. My theory is its just as important for a stagnant QB to have a fresh start as it is for a franchise. Like, if we traded Tannehill for Stafford straight up both QBs would have a much greater chance to succeed in their new situations.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    new regimes hardly ever work.
     
  10. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Um........then where does success come from? Doing the same thing that didn't work before?
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Right, but how much success is there exactly?

    How often do new regimes find success?
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    There doesn't seem to be a simple road map to success or all teams would follow it.

    There are plenty of regimes that bring in new quarterbacks and fail miserably.

    Not very many teams with new regimes keep the same quarterback.

    Basically there is not a lot of data to say this is going to fail or succeed. Chances are, it will fail because most new regimes fail.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah, basically it looks like teams keep picking a new HC until they get one they're satisfied with. Here's a graph showing number of games coached vs. win% for all coaches during the NFL era, though it does include the wins/losses of any games an NFL HC had before 1966 (couldn't easily filter that out):
    http://w81i.imgup.net/Coacheswin49be.png

    It's interesting that win% plateaus at around 70%. That one data point for the only coach in NFL history with a 100% win rate is Fred Bruney with a 1-0 record haha:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Bruney
     
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  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Game is 30% luck.
     
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  15. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    There were are lot more then you, Fin... And a lot of us began feasting on that large black bird with the horrid call!
     
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  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Gase (who made due with Tim Tebow and Jay Cutler) I'm sure thought he could take a QB who has all the necessary talent and turn him around.

    But they aren't tied at the hip. If our offense struggles Ryan rather he deserves it or not will be the scapegoat and likely cut in the offseason.

    I don't think that will happen. I think we will finally see a franchise QB in Miami. But if not? Make no mistake...he is ALL out of excuses and will be a goner in 17


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    This is something I totally agree with.

    I do think that Tannehill will do well. I expect a 100ish passer rating for the season (less impressive now than it used to be, but still a high standard).
    However if Tannehill pratfalls Gase will be fully justified in letting him go.

    The only possible excuse is some form of injury that limits his effectiveness.
     
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  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He will not be a goner even if he stinks the joint up. No way. He may have legit competition, but he won't be a goner.
     
  19. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    There are also QBs that are just late bloomers. Beurlein, Rich Gannon, and to a lesser extent Alex Smith all come to mind.

    Whether it was a change in coaching, just having enough time as starters, or having someone believe in you, something clicked. Tannehill, as a guy who didn't have a lot of starts in college and was likely subjected to sub-par QB coaching and having a coach not believe in him, at least seems like a candidate for blooming a bit late. I think he's probably getting pretty good coaching now. His protection will be the best it's been since he's been here, and his weapons are probably at their peak, save RB.

    He's got the pieces in place. He will need to take a step up. I surely don't think he'll take step down, but if it turns out that he's plateaued, I do think the Dolphins will start bringing others in to LEGITIMATELY compete.
     
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  20. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    He's set to start making 20 mil next year, if he doesn't show marked improvement, I think he's gone, that's why they made his contract the way they did.

    At his current level of play, he's just not worth that type of money, I hope Gase can get that type of play out of him though, that would be great.
     
  21. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a very convenient line of thinking. If Tannehill raises his game then it's because of Gase, if Tannehill plateaus or regresses then it's all on Tannehill and he needs to be replaced. Good narrative, poor logic.
     
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  22. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I feel RT is already a good QB and that he was held back by the previous coaching regime

    So if he levels up it will be due to Gase removing obstacles. Maybe if he does freakishly well - passer rating of 110 kind of thing then Gase will get the credit. But if RT17 fails to level up now, then I was wrong about him already being a good QB.

    It isn't a matter of convenience. It's a matter of whether I am right or wrong in my assessment of Tannehill.
     
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  23. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    (2015) 49ers insisted Tomsula be his DC..
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hat-kept-adam-gase-from-landing-49ers-top-job

    If he's that picky about who's running the other side of the ball you can imagine how picky he may be about being tied to a QB.
     
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  24. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Personally, I think every new HC goes in with the assumption he can at least choose who his assistant coaches are, so I don't think Gase is any more picky because of that.

    Really, by "picky" I meant a 1st time HC knows he's likely to go to an underperforming team so you can't really expect much. Being too picky about requiring key players of a winning team already in place might mean you don't find a job and show you're HC material.

    Also, one reason I doubt Tannehill was so essential to Gase is because of Tannehill's contract. Gase isn't really tied to a QB except for 1 year of free evaluation. If things don't work out it's Tannehill that leaves not Gase.

    So who knows.. all this is speculation, but personally I don't think Tannehill helped or hurt much precisely because Gase isn't tied to him and because the motivation is strong for many coordinators to show they can hack it as HC.
     
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  25. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    SO IN OTHER WORDS Ross is a liar because your opinion doesnt jibe with what he said...Gotcha
     
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  26. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Gase wasnt brought in too fix Tannehill. He was brought in to fix the offense and this year that meant offensive line. The front office has clearly felt for the lasst two years that Tannehill isnt the problem. If he was he wouldnt have gotten the contract he did. Two years ago they decided he needed receivers. This year they felt he needed a new offensive line and a new coach that knew what he was doing which is pretty much exactly what the defenders of tannehill have been preaching. Now maybe you and your compadres are right and the front office is to blame or we are but one thing is certain this year will decide once and for all who was right over the last four years
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I'm going more by what Adam Gase himself said in the press conference when he was hired:
    http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...nference/f0333706-9f8a-4eb7-befb-2cce26e5cdba

    On one hand, Gase says he'll have Tannehill's back, hire guys to help him and that he'll work with him. That tells me Tannehill wasn't hurting our chances to hire Gase.

    Then, when asked about whether he thinks Tannehill can get us to the playoffs and win a SB, he says this:

    That does NOT suggest to me Tannehill was a big reason Gase came here. He hasn't seen Tannehill play many games, doesn't yet know what Tannehill's strengths are, isn't saying Tannehill can take us to the playoffs, hedges his bet that Tannehill is the right QB, etc.. Gase simply doesn't offer an endorsement of Tannehill, so yeah I think my opinion is more consistent with what the HC himself said than someone saying Gase chose the Dolphins because of Tannehill (oh and when asked directly why he chose the Dolphins he mentions Ross and Tannenbaum, no one else.. a very diplomatic answer if you ask me).
     
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  28. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    They can opt out of his contract after this year, so it wasn't any ringing endorsement, it was a "hedge your bet" contract.

    As far as fixing the Oline, Tunsil fell into their lap.
     
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  29. sandcastle

    sandcastle Active Member

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    Is what Sean Payton achieved in his first year with Drew Brees the best parallel for what Gase could achieve? I hope the game film gurus could look at the the Saints offense before it became one of the highest scoring ones.

    Brees had lots questions about his ability; however, it may been easier for Payton to solve as he was miscast in SD's Coryell system. Tannehill seems to lack the instincts and feel of the game as top QBs exhibit. Sherman praised Tannehill during his 1st training camp by stating he had diagnose what went wrong with a play as he came to the sideline. Unfortunately, it seemed the offensive needed him to diagnose the defense as he faced pressure.

    Early signs of Gase's strategy are the hurry-up offense and Tannehill's run. After years of talk, the offense finally seems capable of running a ball possession hurry-up offense. This may indicate that there's less need for the QB to make a chunk plays as these will happen with YAC receivers and the a tiring defense. Tannehill's run seem different as he quickly made his way to the sideline and tempted the defense to hit him out of bounds. This may indicate that Tannehill has more scripted plays so instead of running to daylight, his runs are more defined on where to go downfield.
     
  30. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Outside of injuries I don't envision any scenario in which we get rid of Tannehill while Gase remains. If we're bad enough that people get fired Tannenbaum will be the first to go and if Gase starts chirping that he needs a different QB and needs Tannehill gone maybe (hopefully) Ross just cleans house. If we win 9 or more games Tannehill is going nowhere. Best case for making some sort of move is if we win 7-9 games and decide to draft some competition in the second or third round. But the question is is how big is Gase's ego? Will he just keep throwing resources and making adjustments "knowing" he can fix Tannehill with just the right tinker? My guess is he won't give up on Tannehill easily.
     
  31. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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  33. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The article doesn't quote Gase as saying what the headline says, but I read it more as a shot at Lazor than Pilbin.
     
  34. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    you almost wonder what this team was thinking, drafting a qb #8 and putting shackles on him. the successful qb's are the ones that are allowed to pre-snap read and change the play on the field. Just because you call a play from the side does not mean it has to be executed. we wasted 4 years with this attitude.
     
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  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    There are lots of reasons. We had a front office that was both below average and not on the same page with the coaching staff. We had a head coach who should have never been hired in the first place and was woefully unfit for the job. And then we replaced the HC's buddy with a first time OC who thought that he knew everything and treated the players like crap. Oh, and we had the old OC's son in law as the "qb coach". And RT has played pretty well in spite of all that, and in spite of having the worst protection in the league through his first four seasons.
     
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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    That article ought to put a nail in the coffin of the haters.

    I know this though, if Thill doesn't perform better just by having those handcuffs removed, I'll admit I was wrong. On the flipside, if he does perform without those handcuffs, will the haters admit they were wrong?
     
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  37. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    No, of course they won't. They'll either find something else to complain about or will act like it never happened. We have a few posters where crapping on RT seems to make up 75% of what they post.
     
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  38. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I hope your right!!!!!!!!
     
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  39. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    now it all makes sense. they didn't treat the qb position right and in addition, didn't focus on the OL. Brilliant!
     
  40. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see an ego, I see insecurity.
     

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