Differences in coaching from last year to this year,

"Fin D wrote:

You seem to be focused solely around Lazor & Philbin. So let's tackle that.

Its no secret I defended Philbin for a long time, then saw I was wrong, admitted it and changed my stance. Here's why I changed my stance:

Philbin wouldn't adapt. He wouldn't adapt to his players. He wouldn't adapt to his opponents. I never felt like he was a wuss when it came to game time decisions. I feel like the GB timeout is overblown. I also thought the go/gogo was overblown as well. While its certainly bad to let the defense know what's coming, I don't believe there was enough time from saying go/gogo to the play starting that it actually mattered. Now if he was saying as he got to the center, then yes, major problem.

I believe if you gave Philbin and Lazor the exact players they want and have no injuries, then they could win a lot of football.

Unfortunately, that's not how **** works. No coach has the perfect situation. The mark of a coach is how they handle adversity. Philbin and Lazor failed that test miserably. They didn't adapt to the issues the team had, oline. They didn't adapt to their opponents. They stayed steadfast in their system and it cost the team wins and them jobs.

I'm pretty confident you'll change your stance on Tannehill the second he's no longer on the team too.

"roy_miami wrote:

I'm pretty confident you'll change your stance on Tannehill the second he's no longer on the team too.

When he retires in 10 years?

"roy_miami wrote:

I'm pretty confident you'll change your stance on Tannehill the second he's no longer on the team too.

Wow way to douche.

Fin-D and Roy,

To be honest after reading both of your posts you seem to agree a lot more than disagree when it comes to the previous coaching regime. You're both saying they were good in smooth waters but struggled when adversity struck.

My take is that Lazor's offense was very effective when he wasn't trailing. It ran at the similar levels of efficiency when you look at the in game situations in 2014 and 2015. The biggest change was that the D was letting through more points in 2015 than in 2014. As for Coyle's Defense again it worked well when it was in a positive situation. Although I differ in where it went off the rails. When opponents worked out that the system couldn't stop the run without seriously degrading the pass defense they kept exploiting that weakness. I believe that weakness could have been covered with better talent at LB, but it's on the DC to adjust if the FO doesn't give him what his scheme needs.

Why is no one concerned about wrappers on the field this year? I feel like this is an area where we will see some serious regression.

"Fin-O wrote:

There isn't anyone calling for him to be replaced after his most disappointing season of his career. So i disagree with that.

Um, I suggest you open your eyes a little more, because there have been plenty of people that have called for him to be replaced.

Conspiracy? LOL - half kidding. It's like this team has been setup for failure every year since ?. Between this here and the "Go" - "Go Go" era and the constant hand tying of QBs from coaches. It's just basic stuff that guarantees the opposition gets an advantage. Hopefully this year we get to crawl out of the NFL sewer.

"Mrtree wrote:

Why is no one concerned about wrappers on the field this year? I feel like this is an area where we will see some serious regression.

To be honest I thought that actually spoke well of his character. But maybe it's because in my industry (I'm a chef) it's that mind numbing attention to detail that gets you into le guide.

"Pauly wrote:

To be honest I thought that actually spoke well of his character. But maybe it's because in my industry (I'm a chef) it's that mind numbing attention to detail that gets you into le guide.

If anything this was mind numbing attention to the wrong details. They aren't preparing lobster Thermidor out there. They are playing football.

It was a great example of how Philbin was it of touch.

"roy_miami wrote:

And lastly taking what the defense gives you as opposed to forcing balance. Thats a tried and true philosophy. But for it to work you need a QB that has a innate understanding of game theory, or won't be fooled into doing what the defense wants you to do on a consistent basis. That audible to a deep pass to Hartline in OT against the Jets when we were already in field goal range to win the game was a red flag. It was not smart. That situation calls for low risk, low reward type plays. So with a QB thats not smart and easily fooled like that what should you do as a coach? You probably should just run plays as called at least some of the time, if not all of the time just to make sure the defense can't dictate what you do. And thats what Lazor did. Or get a new QB, which is what Philbin wanted.

So overall all of our coaches were average and destined to be fired, but the QB is average as well and we're probably in for a long boring ride with lots more excuse making on the horizon.

Are you seriously referencing something from RT's rookie season about 4 games in and saying that decision was a "red flag"? LOL

"Brasfin wrote:

Are you seriously referencing something from RT's rookie season about 4 games in and saying that decision was a "red flag"? LOL

Yes it was a red flag. Red flag does not mean I'm 100% certain he will be a failure, its something to take note of and a bad sign. Game theory mistakes aren't always going to be as obvious as this one, and even this wouldn't have been obvious as Sherman was taking the blame until he told the media that Tannehill was the one that changed his call. These types of decisions lead to losses. So if you are losing a lot of close games and you have evidence that your QB is not good at making end game decisions then maybe those things are related.

And the feet first slide a yard short of the first down against the Jets week 17 with everything on the line is another example. If thats not the time to go all-in then when is?

I mean without getting into philosophies, schemes, strategies, etc., we simply just have more coaches. Like in numbers.
At one point last year, we didn't have an HC/OC/DC. That's 3 less coaches than every other team.

"Brasfin wrote:

Are you seriously referencing something from RT's rookie season about 4 games in and saying that decision was a "red flag"? LOL

Yes, yes he is. Honestly, that is the kind of thing that has been happening since his rookie year, and is why I've been in so many arguments with people. People using ridiculous things as barometers for Tannehill, that they would never use for any other QB.

"resnor wrote:

Yes, yes he is. Honestly, that is the kind of thing that has been happening since his rookie year, and is why I've been in so many arguments with people. People using ridiculous things as barometers for Tannehill, that they would never use for any other QB.

The QB doing something completely idiotic with the game on the line is a ridiculous observation?

"roy_miami wrote:

Yes it was a red flag. Red flag does not mean I'm 100% certain he will be a failure, its something to take note of and a bad sign. Game theory mistakes aren't always going to be as obvious as this one, and even this wouldn't have been obvious as Sherman was taking the blame until he told the media that Tannehill was the one that changed his call. These types of decisions lead to losses. So if you are losing a lot of close games and you have evidence that your QB is not good at making end game decisions then maybe those things are related.

And the feet first slide a yard short of the first down against the Jets week 17 with everything on the line is another example. If thats not the time to go all-in then when is?

Red flag is a term that comes from racing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags#Red_flag

White Flag: Conditions are clear
Yellow Flag: Proceed with caution
Red Flag: Conditions are too dangerous to continue
black Flag: A driver is called back to the pits, normally for a DQ.

Perhaps you meant yellow flag?

"Pauly wrote:

Red flag is a term that comes from racing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags#Red_flag

White Flag: Conditions are clear
Yellow Flag: Proceed with caution
Red Flag: Conditions are too dangerous to continue
black Flag: A driver is called back to the pits, normally for a DQ.

Perhaps you meant yellow flag?

I meant this:

Red flag may refer to: Red flag (idiom), a metaphor for something signalling a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_(idiom)

I thought it was a pretty common saying. :confused2:

"roy_miami wrote:

I meant this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_(idiom)

I thought it was a pretty common saying. :confused2:

Maybe it depends on where you are. I spent a lot of time around some revheads when I was young.

"Pauly wrote:

Red flag is a term that comes from racing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags#Red_flag

White Flag: Conditions are clear
Yellow Flag: Proceed with caution
Red Flag: Conditions are too dangerous to continue
black Flag: A driver is called back to the pits, normally for a DQ.

Perhaps you meant yellow flag?

It's not really a term in racing, so to speak, but a signal to drivers.

"roy_miami wrote:

I meant this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_(idiom)

I thought it was a pretty common saying. :confused2:

It is a common saying.

Ross made some interesting comments (paraphrasing):

'Tannehill has the full support of his coach, he didn't have that in the past.'

'Gase is going to be good, but it might take a while.'

'I really believe in Gase and I'm going to give him time to be successful.'

"roy_miami wrote:

Ross made some interesting comments (paraphrasing):

'Tannehill has the full support of his coach, he didn't have that in the past.'

'Gase is going to be good, but it might take a while.'

'I really believe in Gase and I'm going to give him time to be successful.'

He also said tannehill was one of the reasons he chose miami

"roy_miami wrote:

Ross made some interesting comments (paraphrasing):

'Tannehill has the full support of his coach, he didn't have that in the past.'

'Gase is going to be good, but it might take a while.'

'I really believe in Gase and I'm going to give him time to be successful.'

I rarely listen to what coaches say. We're never going to get candid reactions and how they really feel.

Instead, we have to watch what we see on the field and I'm curious to see just how much the new staff trusts Tanny based on the playcalling.

"roy_miami wrote:

Ross made some interesting comments (paraphrasing):

'Tannehill has the full support of his coach, he didn't have that in the past.'

'Gase is going to be good, but it might take a while.'

'I really believe in Gase and I'm going to give him time to be successful.'

Thats about as strong and balanced as you'll see public support from an owner. Ross has gotten better as he's been around longer. I looks like he understands that the team won't be instantly better overnight and is ok with being patient.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Thats about as strong and balanced as you'll see public support from an owner. Ross has gotten better as he's been around longer. I looks like he understands that the team won't be instantly better overnight and is ok with being patient.

Ross has always been patient. In fact, that was his biggest problem, not canning Philbin earlier and waiting for the guy to become someone he wasn't.

Now.. couple patience with a better choice of a young HC and you have a winner. Of course we don't yet know what we have in Gase so be prepared!

Something Section126 and I were discussing last night...

Every coach says they fit the scheme to the players. Every coach says they adjust for what everyone is good at. And to some degree I think they all do. But it's nice to see that when Adam Gase says that, he REALLY means it.

He has made that clear the whole way, that his "system" is not dogmatic at all and he's just going to do what guys are comfortable with. I think perhaps the one area where that's not true is the OL, where he asks them to execute every kind of block and flip between different styles from play to play and drive to drive. But with the skill positions, it's pretty clear he really has designed things around the players. There are tons of little signs of this. He gets shotgun snaps to Brandon Doughty, who was a shotgun/pistol quarterback in college. Most every run you saw for Kenyan Drake last night was to the outside, and he also played to Kenyan's strength in the passing game. Several times now we've seen him calling roll-outs for Zach Dysert who is clearly very comfortable with them. He has, for the most part, kept the lid on some of that stuff for Tannehill, but that's about gamesmanship. Look at the routes he's got Kenny Stills running, and how well they play off his speed. And Stills seems to love them, because he's a fast/quick receiver and loves to use that to his advantage, doesn't much like physical situations. So you see routes where he takes advantage of the respect a defender shows for his speed by throttling down, or turning a speed-out into wheel route, etc. When Arian Foster was getting the ball, zone plays. He's done a lot of stuff with Jordan Cameron that clearly is designed to use what Cameron is good at, though Cameron has disappointed a bit in the preseason games.

Think about this. There are probably 13 players that regularly play in an NFL offense (QB, RB, RB, TE, TE, WR, WR, WR, LT, LG, C, RG, RT). We assume those guys this year will be Ryan Tannehill, Arian Foster, Jay Ajayi, Jordan Cameron, Dion Sims, Kenny Stills, Jarvis Landry, Devante Parker, Branden Albert, Laremy Tunsil, Mike Pouncey, Jermon Bushrod/Billy Turner/Dallas Thomas (looks like they'll rotate for now), and Ja'Wuan James. So we'll call that 15 players actually because of the RG rotation.

Impressively, only 3 of the 15 players was not on the roster a year ago under previous head coach Joe Philbin. One of those newcomers (Tunsil) was the top draft pick, and it wasn't some draft pick that Gase insisted on. Another (Bushrod) is kind of a 1/3rd player right now since he'll be in rotation. And the other (Foster) is also in a rotation. If you figure an offensive season has maybe more or less 11,000 snaps, then about 85% of the snaps this year are set to be taken by holdovers from the previous staff. Considering Adam Gase is an offensive guy, and will in fact be the de facto offensive coordinator, that is REMARKABLE. This is not the makeover you usually see when a new staff comes in. It's a testament to how much he means it when he says he's going to form game plans around the combination of his own players and the opponent.