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Dion Jordan back at practice (albeit limited) "I felt good" says Jordan.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm still not sold he's going to play that game, I see a week 2 return.
     
  2. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Oregon won their games 62-51 - 43-21 etc etc. They were the kings of the shoot out. Their defenses sucked while Jordan was there.

    Seriously, we drafted this kid on physical measurements and combine numbers...not whether he could play football or if he would shy away from the injured shoulder. This pick was a HUGE gamble. Why roll the dice with the number 3 overall pick and burn a 2nd rounder to do it.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    OT, Deej recall Chris McCoy?

    He's doing really well in Philly after a stint in the CFL
     
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  4. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    What about Jon Martin though? After watching the preseason have any of your concerns about the LT position been subdued? While it is only preseason... he's looked pretty damn good at LT.
     
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  5. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Go big or go home. You can still get burnt by "playing it safe" in the draft... as NO pick is close to a sure thing. Plenty of "safe" prospects bust all the time. Every draft pick is a gamble... so if you're going to gamble... might as well gamble on the one with the highest upside.
     
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  6. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    We'll see now that he has full-speed animals coming at him every down, pre-season is over, baby time is over. Martin has held up, yes, but they haven't left him on an island either. They have been and will continue to keep in Backs and Tightends in protection schemes.

    This might work in pass pro but your reducing RT's options.... and your running game has and will suffer. There is no surge with this line.

    I hope for the best...FinNasty - I swear to you I do. All we need is enough scoring to compliment our defense, we don't have to be New Orleans. Just score enough, and take care of the ball.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That was Chris McCoy. Too bad Miami didn't develop him.
     
  8. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Well said, and your right. I just would have rather gambled on protecting RT's *** and protecting the potential of all the new FA offensive assets. I just felt the LT made more sense for this current team.

    Why are they talking LB now with Jordan??? Cuz it is going to be DAMN HARD to get Olivier Vernon off the field... Koa Misi is the weak link.
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Thanks for not answering the question. :whistling:
     
  10. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I actually saw Jordan as a very safe pick. Any player with superior athletic talent and great drive/motivation/discipline is a really good bet to succeed. Now personally, the way the draft broke, I probably would stayed put and taken Eifert (TE) and Menelik Watson (T). I'm not sold on Eifert as an elite TE prospect, but I think he would provide a fantastic and immediate redzone target. Watson was also a guy who I was higher on than most. I had him as potentially one of the top three Ts in this draft (a few years down the line). But I can't argue against Jordan. I was a big Jarvis Jones fan, whom I argued was the best college defensive player in the draft, but I see Jordan as a safer and potentially better pro. Jones is a purer DE, but Jordan will be an all-around threat as both a pass rusher and playmaker in coverage. My biggest complaint about Jordan is that it may take him a few years to realize that potential. But I see the likelihood of him reaching that potential as very high. I've never been one of those that believes you need immediate impact from any pick. (I don't think Eli Manning was a bad pick b/c it took him several years to develop. The payoff was worth the wait). I'm also not someone who will criticize a team just b/c they didn't do what I would have done. Reality is that the Dolphins were able to move up very cheaply and were able to get a very good player with top 5 at his position potential (at a high impact position). I'm never going to criticize a move like that.
     
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  11. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That SHOULD be where he's going to be played all along. Using him as a 4-3 DE only is not getting full use of his skill set.
     
  12. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    No - I admit to not watching his tape at Oregon in every game and/or watching his assignments. I have seen him in limited game action in college. (3 games total and I was not solely focusing on him). It is not a big enough sample, even for my eye, to make a judgement.

    I didn't like the pick for multiple reasons, some of them having nothing to do with Dion Jordan.. I'm putting it in the past. It is done and over.

    Time to prove it Dion ! Game on.

    If nothing Mr. Clean - I am always honest.
     
  13. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I guess my biggest problem with the pick in simple terms is this: This team is one beastly offense line (and a little depth) from competing for Super Bowls, even without Jordan... Brandon Albert - Bryan McKinnie - Lane Johnson (ANY OF THEM would have made me happy)...

    I could see it...DUE NORTH on the horizon, one or two more steps. Get the lineman get the lineman get the lineman..I was willing it wishing it..because I know THAT is what this team needed the most. That is what will bring Super Bowls. That is what will protect all the offensive investments. That is what will help our young QB grow the most.

    Then we went south. (Olivier Vernon was a beast at the end of last year - we didn't need to go south)

    Please admit that you can see where I'm coming from with this. I love the Dolphins...and we were so close to being there this year.

    Now in my eyes, it is another wait till next year. (We need an O-line) Perhaps in the long run it will pay off. Perhaps we will get an O-line in the coming seasons and Jordan will be a stud and we'll be better off for it in future seasons.

    Time will tell.
     
  14. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Linebacker has always been in the discussion for Jordan's role. I believe 60% of his snaps last year were in coverage.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Careful....you're bringing logic to poop fight.
     
  16. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Albert may or may not even have ended up being an upgrade. He certainly hasn't graded as well as Martin this preseason. Even if he is, it wouldn't make a difference against the better pass rushers. He would need just as much help as Martin will. McKinnie is a horrid fit for our system. Johnson is a good prospect, but his potential is clearly below Jordan's. That would be an example of filling a need by passing up a better prospect/player at a higher impact position. My issue is the perception that any of these guys would have suddenly solved the OL problem. It's far from a given that any OL we could have added would have made our OL better this year. If we're a year away it would be regardless of any of those additions.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Disagree, the guys movement in relation to his size is what makes a GM take a chance regardless of a shoulder injury.its extremely unique....
     
  18. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why did you hate the pick?... And why don't you like the player?
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kid had potential, was disappointed we let him go..never would of done that, but we had to make room for Trunsik and Spitler..:shifty:
     
  21. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I think you're overestimating Vernon's impact last year. He's shown flashes and I think he's going to be good this year, but he's still far from scaring the opposition on gameday. Let me put it to you this way: if the scenario played out that we were playing the Patriots at the end of the year for the AFC East, would you rather have the fierce pass rush or the better protection for your QB? because it's pretty written in stone that the former is the most realistic way to beat the Patriots.
     
  22. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    He must be starting, didn't play last night vs. the Saints :shifty:
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We had very similar conclusions on the draft, except that I had a higher opinion of Eifert, had much respect for Jarvis and wrote many great things about him, Eifert and Watson would of been real nice, but I felt that Jordan, alongside Sheldon Richardson, were the two best defenders in the draft, to be able to get a player of that caliber, that upside, that movement, with that kind of size, for very little really, I think you make the move every time when you have a conviction..We both liked Jamar Taylor, in hindsight would you still take Taylor over Watson?
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The opposite is what I heard so much of months ago, I think now, with just those little flashes that folks saw in those two preseason games, the vision of the Freestyler, sharpens in focus..
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think your argument is valid, however, that early in the draft, it's about finding the best player with the highest upside.
     
  26. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    My wife has a crush on Tannehill but nothing like the hots I've got for his wife! OMG!

    Here's to Tannehill playing as good this season as his wife looks :lol:
     
  27. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Thats where we disagree - It's about building the best team. You don't draft Andrew Luck or RG III when you have Tom Brady...because they are the best player and have the best upside. You have to weigh your teams needs, where you can upgrade and by how much in comparison. Lane Johnson was also an elite prospect and served this teams needs more than Jordan.

    If you wanted to address DE/LB then stay put and keep your 2nd rounder. Jarvis Jones was the only one at the position that came with a proven resume. He is pure offense wrecker.

    Thats just my opinion - The pick was a gaff.

    I'm compiling tape on Jordan now...I'm trying to make myself feel better and hopefully see what they see.

    Serve me crow Dion - Serve me the crow !!
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your not taking into account the circumstances that presented itself, When you are slated at 12, and you have the chance to school somebody to get up to #3, you don't go for the tackle, you go for the best player with the highest upside.

    This is a case of having a vision for a player and trusting your instinct..The vision is unique in the sense that if come to fruition, no other player in the draft could of offered the same..

    You need one Qb..

    You need 11 defenders..you can afford to double up on greatness..

    Jordan and Wake..your theory does not apply.
     
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  29. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    You do not take a LT with a second round pick in draft A, then move up to #3 in draft B to take another LT before giving the A draft LT the chance to prove himself. Ireland would have been crucified once again for that stunt by the same voice that is dogging the pick of Dion Jordan over Lane Johnson. We had our "safe" pick LT already. His name was Jake Long.

    And if you have the opportunity to move up to #3 to get a "boner"-fide stud in DJordan for little cost in current draft compensation, and at ZERO frigging cost in future compensation, then you'd be a fool not to do so.
     
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  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The main trap I do not want to fall into is judging a draft or draft picks too soon. Right now today, it is easy to say Miami shudda stayed put at 12 and taken Jarvis Jones, who is tearing it up for the Steelers, kept the 42 pick and used it on Watson, or any one of several other players who went in the mid 2nd. We need to wait though and see how everything plays out.
    Right now, I could play the 20/20 hindsight game and say Ireland should have taken David Bakhtiari rather than Dallas Thomas. He should have taken Lerentee McCray, instead of Jenkins, and Andre Ellington, or Kenjon Barner or Kerwynn Williams instead of Gillislee. Today, in hindsight, I'd say that seems right. Many other scenarios would seem as good or better.
    But we should wait and see how it all plays out a little longer first.
     
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  31. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if we've gone far enough to call it hindsight yet. At the moment I'm comfortable with Martin's progress and Clabo. At CB I'm thrilled with Grimes but see Patterson as eventually dropping to #3 behind Taylor. So a week before the season Taylor over Watson may be best for the team now. But if Martin isn't good enough at LT or Clabo diminishes rapidly then I may be wishing for Watson again.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I thought he would of already taken this into account but I guess not..
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Question for the folks that originally stated they "just want Dion to focus on rushing the passer, or said that's why we drafted him, to rush the passer"

    Why not use this kids entire skillset, why not take a payer that looks to be amazing at playing in space, and put him in space (outside/Sam).??

    Why do you want to make him one dimensional when he's obviously multidimensional?
     
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  34. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    That would be too logical. Kid has an amazing gift from a genetics standpoint. He will line up all over the place and it will be a pleasure to watch him evolve.

    We can really confuse our opponents since Vernon has also shown he can drop into coverage every now and then. Room for a lot of creativity.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4
     
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  35. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    DJ, because his fresh out of college and into the pros. Everyone compares the kid to JT, a future hall of famer. Was JT dropping into coverage and moving around complex schemes his rookie year? Dude, if we've gotta be patient with the injury (or so it has been demanded of me), we have to be patient with what we throw at him.

    Hey, who knows? The kid may very well pick it up and run with it all the way to super stardom but IMO, best early coaching;"Kid, try not to think too much out there. All in good time. For now, lets have some fun. Get to the QB. He told me the water sucks- it really, really sucks."

    Pin his ears back today. We'll needlepoint his IQ tomorrow.
     
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  36. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    We disagree. I believe your obligated to take the player that makes your football team better. This team needed a tackle not a DE with an injury and no resume.

    And lets reserve the "STUD" label for guys that have earned it. He wasn't even a "STUD" in college...I think we can safely wait on using that word.

    I think the pick sucked. We spent a 1st and a 2nd round pick (Two picks) to get an injured "potential" with no resume for a position we didn't need.

    I'm closing the book on the discussion, we'll agree to disagree and you can keep this in your back pocket and serve up your crow later. Lets hope that crow doesn't rot in your pocket.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, I mean if you had Brett Favre why would you draft Aaron Rodgers, its completely stupid. Or release Peyton Manning to get Andrew Luck. Or bring in Steve Young when you have Joe Montana. :pity:
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    No, because we didn't run a complex scheme in 1997. Jordan is not totally JT. Jordan is or was used a lot more in coverage in college and looks very comfortable doing so.
     
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  39. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Whatever guy... we DID take the best player that makes the team better. You just refuse to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit with your Parcellian like view... and you have said a half dozen times already that you're through dogging DJordan and bemoaning not taking LJohnson and yet keep reposting that drivel ad nauseum...

    If you actually paid attention to the Dolphins games last season, you'd realize that we lost more games by defensive let downs in the pass rush, lack of LB plays, the defensive backfield, kicking game, and at the corners. NOT due to the L or R tackle doing/not doing a grade A performance. This is why we drafted heavy in the defense and over-hauled the LBs and DBs as well as brought in Sturgis. We addressed the areas that Philbin and his staff prioritized.

    Also, you already admitted that you didn't watch enough of DJordan play in college to have an honest educated opinion of his potential or how he'd play or be used by Coyles. If you had, you would understand why so many are so high on him and his ability to play multiple positions either standing up or with a hand in the dirt. Oregon used him all over the field, which is why his personal sack and tackle stats weren't as high as some others, but his play-making ability is still above those other guys.

    Please. do keep the book closed unless the end of season at least.
     
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  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't argue that too much DW because its the norm and it makes sense, how do you explain a player who switches positions in college and soon thereafter is running at three different positions?

    Could we have a player that just processes things differently, can we maybe keep the workload light and with a big picture mentality and just give him a little bit of each position, instead a lot of def end teachings?..I don't want any part of his skillset to atrophy..

    One more question, why after not spending any time with the team all offseason, and only after a couple of practices do we see him with his hand in the dirt, standing up like Lawrence Taylor, and playing a spy role at middle linebacker?
     

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