Dion Jordan bust?

The guy is dumb. He is an athletic freak, but not smart enough to excel when everyone else is technically sound and not intimidated by his physique. He is learning to rush the passer because the staff knows his mental limitations, he needs to learn one job, and until he is proficient at that, that's all hell do. Regardless of what these Jordan apologists tell you...

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

How does Jordan lead to serious issues on defense?

We don't have All-Pros at every position = serious issue.

"Triggercut wrote:

The guy is dumb. He is an athletic freak, but not smart enough to excel when everyone else is technically sound and not intimidated by his physique. He is learning to rush the passer because the staff knows his mental limitations, he needs to learn one job, and until he is proficient at that, that's all hell do. Regardless of what these Jordan apologists tell you...

"pmj wrote:

If we had him as a 3-4 olb I'm sure he would be fine, instead we try to fit a square peg in a round hole. He looked good to me last year when we saw him actually play, I'm sure he'll contribute. I do not see a Vernon Gholston here.

Exactly.

I would have much more hope if they didn't make him put on 20 lbs, I say that because coyle did use him in a lot of ways, ways that exploit his skillset, the weight gain limits that ability somewhat so I don't understand the thought process there if the plan was to make this player a utility knife

I think bust is a strong word, and it's too early to label him that way. This was supposed to be a big season for him though. He'd put on the weight. A lot of excitement coming into training camp. Then he gets suspended for the first four games and has been mediocre in camp (according to reports). He was also mediocre in the game last weekend (according to my eyes). But strictly based on last season alone, the kid has amazing talent. The potential is certainly there. However, the longer you talk about potential, the less likely it is that he'll ever be anything beyond that. He has plenty of time though to live up to the draft stock. This year and next.

Is he miscast in this defense? I don't know. I'd like to see him get more reps standing up though. A linebacker group of him, McCain and Tripp would be interesting to say the least. But with the suspension on the way, he's not going to get any reps at LB.

Ok guys, pay attention. 100% of his problems lye with the bow tie!! Who in the hell wheres a bow tie? Pretty sure that wasn't a tux. Can you trust anyone who wheres a bow tie? A f------g bowtie? Seriously? That's the problem.

"Sceeto wrote:

Ok guys, pay attention. 100% of his problems lye with the bow tie!! Who in the hell wheres a bow tie? Pretty sure that wasn't a tux. Can you trust anyone who wheres a bow tie? A f------g bowtie? Seriously? That's the problem.

Get that dude some suspenders!!!

"djphinfan wrote:

IMO there was mistake by two staffs, one by the coaches and one by the strength and conditioning staff for the lack of vision to make him add weight, the strength staff should of told them that it wasn't a good idea, and the coaches should want to keep his speed and quicks, of course there was a lack if strength last year, he played with one arm, offseason shoulder surgery then a re aggrevation early in the season..this is a player that thrives in space, and has the athleticism to be something we haven't seen with his length and movement, that's the bottom line, we can talk about schemes and positions all day but he belongs in space running and chasing all over the field, should of started him at Sam last year, let him gain 5 lbs of muscle naturally, move him inside on passing downs against running qbs and rush when against pocket qb .. And just let him play.

Why do you say that? Do you not think he looks like he carries the added weight well?

"Triggercut wrote:

The guy is dumb. He is an athletic freak, but not smart enough to excel when everyone else is technically sound and not intimidated by his physique. He is learning to rush the passer because the staff knows his mental limitations, he needs to learn one job, and until he is proficient at that, that's all hell do. Regardless of what these Jordan apologists tell you...

What makes you say he is dumb?

also, IMO he should be working with Jason Taylor during his suspension. (if that's possible...). He needs to work on his hands... do martial art stuff... that kinda thing.

Did LBsFinest steal your password?

"MrClean wrote:

Who is this Nate Gardner fellow you speak of?

Gardner or garner whatever!U know who I'm talking about.

"Paul 13 wrote:

I think bust is a strong word, and it's too early to label him that way. This was supposed to be a big season for him though. He'd put on the weight. A lot of excitement coming into training camp. Then he gets suspended for the first four games and has been mediocre in camp (according to reports). He was also mediocre in the game last weekend (according to my eyes). But strictly based on last season alone, the kid has amazing talent. The potential is certainly there. However, the longer you talk about potential, the less likely it is that he'll ever be anything beyond that. He has plenty of time though to live up to the draft stock. This year and next.

Is he miscast in this defense? I don't know. I'd like to see him get more reps standing up though. A linebacker group of him, McCain and Tripp would be interesting to say the least. But with the suspension on the way, he's not going to get any reps at LB.

What amazing talent did I miss last year.
He was average at best.Hell he wasn't even the best defensive player on his college team.The injured kid in buffalo was.

"FinNasty wrote:

Why do you say that? Do you not think he looks like he carries the added weight well?

From a frame perspective he absolutely can handle it, weight will distribute on his body evenly no matter how much he gains, but at 270 that's defensive end weight and will affect his speed and quicks to some degree, and for me, playing the way I think he should play his frame didnt need so much weight, just a natural progression of his musculature...my take comes to wanting to use him all over the field, the suggested weight gain tells me that they are not, their more worried about setting the edge, also, if they had him adding weight because they thought he needed more strength, I don't agree, from a strength perspective I think we saw a player playing hurt and coming off major shoulder surgery, not because he lacked natural strength..the good news is that if there is a frame that can handle some weight and still keep his athleticism it's this dude, I'm just always looking for optimum condition relative to the responsibilities of the player..if he was to play that Leo role I don't think making him gain 20 was the right direction, maybe 5 lbs of lean muscle bringing him to 252-255...just looking at the one preseason game he wasn't getting off with any explosion, now than can be for lots of reasons but he surely didn't look spry in that one game, I thoroughly expect him to have a big game tonite, I just refuse to believe he can't be a great player, but making him gain unnecessary weight and forcing him into a position that isn't best suited to his skillset, is fighting that eval..these games should mean something to him considering he let down his teammates big time..

I'm thinking he should be at OLB like he played in college. Does he have trouble turning his hips or something? Seems he should have enough speed to cover TE's which is something our current ones are still having difficulty with. Plus we are deep on the DL. We don't really need him there.

No, Dion Jordan isn't a bust. Dion Jordan is a victim of unrealistic expectations. As a prospect, Jordan was always meant to be a long-term investment. For Dion Jordan, the old "three year" rule regarding evaluations should be in full effect. But that doesn't make for a good headline and story. Doesn't sell ad revenue and doesn't generate discussion.

Being drafted 3rd overall placed a tremendous amount of unfair expectations on Jordan. Dolphins fans watched Von Miller and Aldon Smith get drafted high and decided the only way for Jordan to live up to his draft placement was to be as dominant as those two were as rookies. That was NEVER going to happen for Dion Jordan. His shoulder injury, surgery, and four month recovery all but guaranteed a pseudo redshirt rookie season.

Jordan 4 months recovering from his surgery cost him his rookie off-season and the opportunity to improve physically and mentally. Coming into the league, those were two attributes Jordan needed to improve upon at the next level. Early draft process, Jordan clocked in at 6'6," 226lbs... As a player, Jordan was a jack of all trades, master of nothing. At Oregon, he showed intelligence and athletic ability to play multiple positions with great success. His production relative to playing time was excellent despite never having a true position (and an injured shoulder).

Coming into the NFL, Jordan had so little opportunity to get on the field and play, the Dolphins staff didn't know what they should do with him in 2013. All they seemed to know was, they had a physical specimen. He produced well enough and flashed major talent despite the off-season adversity. He played solid in coverage and was more efficient in rushing the passer than Vernon, who accumulated 11.5 sacks. That's the kind of special ability DJ has.

Jordan's rookie season is irrelevant. 2014 is Jordan's real rookie season. He's had his first real off-season to improve himself physically and mentally. His first off-season in which the Miami Dolphins have given him real direction and purpose.

In November 1996, Gary Wichard flew to Ohio to recruit a spindly college linebacker out of the University of Akron who wore No. 33. At first glance, Jason Taylor looked like a safety. Or a receiver. Or a small forward in basketball. But Wichard saw him as an NFL defensive end, even though the kid barely weighed 230.

Wichard took a thick notebook he called his "game plan," his strategy to get Taylor into the first three rounds of the NFL draft -- hopefully the first. He promised he would convince NFL general managers that Taylor was another Willie McGinest or Charles Haley. He said that all Taylor had to do was pack on a few pounds before the Senior Bowl and that he wanted Taylor to go to Los Angeles so he could personally beef him up.

Taylor's first day in California was Thanksgiving 1996, and Wichard invited him to dinner. Seated at the table were Taylor; Wichard; Wichard's wife, Maire; and their two daughters, Dana and Jessica, but somehow they all ended up standing over a scale in the master bedroom. Wichard wanted to know, once and for all, how much Taylor weighed, how much turkey he needed to fatten him up.

The scale said: 234. Wichard made him eat three helpings.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2010/news/story?id=6038764

No two players are the same. Still, Jason Taylor is a really strong comparison. Taylor and Jordan came into the NFL with strikingly similar builds (6'6" 230lbs). Both were making position transitions. Taylor needed time to evolve physically and mentally. Taylor made that transition into the NFL and his first three seasons combined for a total of 16.5 sacks (5, 9, 2.5). Eventually, Taylor went on to become complete defender and dominate NFL player for over a decade, accumulating 4x all-pro, 6x pro bowler, 1x DPOY, and earning a roster spot on the 00's all decade team.

Dion Jordan is physical specimen in every way, intelligent, versatile, and was lauded for his leadership skills at Oregon. If we're patient with him and give him time and opportunity to evolve, he could become something special. He has the ability to be worth waiting for. Put it this way... Chip Kelly is still butt hurt Miami swooped in and took his prized bull from him.

Well I guess we will to wait until week 5 because of his suspension because now he lost a 1/4 of the season.
I guess if he doesn't produce then we will here how the suspension caused his regression.

I think you got to wait at least until the end of this year before you declare him a bust.

He's a feast or famine type player playing a feast or famine position, we'll need to see at least a 4 or 6 game window to get any idea on how the extra muscle affects his game and how much he's progressed in his second year.

I think Dion Jordan is walking the tight rope of "bust" territory. As a #3 pick, he needs to start producing. Not being be able to play in the first 4 games isn't a good start.

"DixiesArcher wrote:

I think you got to wait at least until the end of this year before you declare him a bust.

Its no secret I hated the move to draft him to begin with because I thought Vernon was going to be the answer at DE.I thought we should have addressed ol.
Don't get me wrong because most people do on this site but I hope I am wrong and he turns out to be a probowler but so far I have not seen anything close to be that type of player.
Its early in the preseason but come on you were the 3rd player in the 2013 draft and you should be dominating the 2nd and 3rd string players.So us something!

"FinNasty wrote:

I haven't read anything about Jordan being disappointing in camp. If anything, it's been the opposite.

I don't know where you have been reading that Jordan has been playing well in training camp. It is my understanding that he didn't play well at all last week against the Falcons and after a fast start in training camp, the coaches have been disappointed is his play in recent weeks.

I just don't ever see him being the type player the Dolphins thought they were getting with the third pick in the 2013 draft. He may not end up being a complete bust, but I don't think he will be anything more than a very average DE in the NFL.

Perhaps Hickey, who didn't draft Jordan, should check with the Eagles and see what they would be willing to give up in a trade for Jordan. I doubt if it would be much, but it might be worth listening to them if they still have any interest in trading for him.

Its pretty comical when a fan gets a petition up and gets a shed load of votes when there are supposedly professional coaches and experts who are supposed to know their job regarding personnel , team, sport and expertise. So who is right? Its farcical at best, embarrassing if Jordan after 2 seasons shows limited reps and playing time because certain experts cannolt evaluate a players best position.

"jw3102 wrote:

I don't know where you have been reading that Jordan has been playing well in training camp. It is my understanding that he didn't play well at all last week against the Falcons and after a fast start in training camp, the coaches have been disappointed is his play in recent weeks.

I just don't ever see him being the type player the Dolphins thought they were getting with the third pick in the 2013 draft. He may not end up being a complete bust, but I don't think he will be anything more than a very average DE in the NFL.

Perhaps Hickey, who didn't draft Jordan, should check with the Eagles and see what they would be willing to give up in a trade for Jordan. I doubt if it would be much, but it might be worth listening to them if they still have any interest in trading for him.

FinNasty is correct. Jordan has had positive comments through camp. Ive read them. It was early camp but FinNasty is correct.