What is everyone's opinion on, at least some plays, letting Dion cover Jimmy Graham??
Nevermind each team, there is probably only one defender in each division that can cover Jimmy Graham down the field. That being said, we are lucky enough to have that guy. When we drafted him, not only did I envision him getting after QB's a'la Lawrence Taylor, but I also saw him as an answer in coverage on many of the freakish TE's in the NFL, namely Gronk and Hernandez (pre-bust).
If we take Graham away, the chances of winning this game probably doubles. Dion CAN do it. The question is whether or not the coaching staff can get it into the game plan in time.
I think its a MUST that this approach be taken and I do not see any drawbacks to it.
THOUGHTS????
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id rather have DJ getting after the QB since vernon is useless.
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I'm dying to see this actually. Is this kid the next JT?
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4Bpk likes this. -
Giving him a chance is better than not giving him a chance. We need to see what he can do vs. top tier talent on a regular basis, and I'd like to think we didn't trade up and draft him that high to have him only play snaps here and there.
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If Wake was playing I would be down with this idea, but now I am not sure, we need pressure outside. One thing that could happen is we send DJ with Graham in the speed package, but other than that I am unsure for this game.
HULKFish, MikeHoncho, jim1 and 1 other person like this. -
What's more important; Putting as much pressure on Brees as possible, or maybe covering the TE? I might mix it up early, but if Jordan proves that he can get after the QB, I'd keep him in that role, and let Wheeler give it a try in coverage.
Larryfinfan, MikeHoncho and Steve-Mo like this. -
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Well, sort of, keep in mind Jordan was meant to be a "Tiger" meaning sometimes coverage, sometimes DE, to just stick him on Graham is to remove him from that role.
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Brees can be sacked this year, with 10 sacks in three games. He also has 4 INTs.
The Saints will undoubtedly pass. But if they pass, the possibility of pressures and sacks are there. I contacted my buddy who is a solid NFL fan and rabid Saints fan, and he said that their O-line is pretty weak. I do not watch them, so I will defer to him.
It seems as though they are having issues running. I think Miami can basically focus on the passing game of the Saints, which is one of the best in the league. Can Miami get pressure and rattle Brees?
Miami has to kill the fan energy somehow. This is going to be Miami's toughest challenge to date. I want them to win badly, but will be okay with a tough played loss. -
I think it's a bit of a stretch at this point. There's still a lot of technical skills there.
I am curious how well Jordan could redirect someone like that at the line.Bpk likes this. -
Yes, in theory. In reality I doubt he is ready to do that on a repeated basis all game long and not get victimized.
Califin likes this. -
Graham is good, but I'd worry about Colston just as much. I agree that if Wake was playing, that might be an option... Kinda funny too, the way you post this, it sounds like we actually have this choice! Against Atl the TE coverage was much better. I'd expect a lot of double teams, and you have to knock off the receivers at the line, get their timing off.
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Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
The saints are a buzzsaw right now. I wouldn't change the D up much, given that Wake and possibly Soliai will be out. The real question for us is whether Patterson can return...I think they bracket the coverage of Graham with a DB over the top and Ellerbe/Wheeler underneath. DJ has been brought along pretty slowly by this staff. There must be a reason but you don't draft a guy as high as they did and not expect him to have an impact right away. He's getting more snaps, but still only in a reserve role. This could be the week that changes (with Wake out), but his best place is getting after Brees...
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I'm sure he has the ability to cover him, but with Wake out we need him pressuring Brees more. DJ getting to Brees would negate all his options, and not just nullify Graham.
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I'm looking at this more from a standpoint of NOT being able to get to Brees enough to slow them down. If we're getting there with our front four and disrupting their timing then I would prefer to stay the course that way. However, if the pressure is just not there, I like the Dion-on-Graham plan a lot and I think it would be effective, at times, throughout the game. -
With Cameron Wake out, we're in need of efficient pass rushing. Dion Jordan is our most efficient pass rusher at the moment even with Cameron Wake on the field. Not that Jordan is as talented or dependable as Wake, but he's been very efficient and that should lead us to believe he can continue being efficient.
The Dolphins need him to rush the passer and worry about that only, for the moment. They need to place an emphasis on it. Especially since Paul Soliai's injury detracts from the ability of Randy Starks and Jared Odrick to pin their ears back and go after the quarterback. That showed in the Atlanta game.
I would not mind seeing Olivier Vernon lined up over the tight end at times, charged with engaging him in physical combat that prevents him from getting quickly out into his routes. Vernon has that ability and showed it at The U. The Dolphins did this some against Atlanta when Wake was out. They got Vernon matched up against tight ends in pass protection. That was how he got a couple of the hurries that he got in the game. -
I think the idea of Jordan being a cover guy is a little overblown.
He has the ability to drop back and play a zone. I don't think he would have any success in man coverage. Certainly not against someone like Graham.
He should be rushing the passer the majority of his snaps, with a very small percentage dropping into zone coverage.Vertical Limit likes this. -
It's really not though. He covered slot receivers in college. He has 4.5 speed and quick hips. I'm not saying he can go out on the edge and cover the Dez Bryants and Julio Jones' of the world, but he should be able to hold his own against TE's. Its more of a question of whether or not they put it in the game plan. I love him as a pass rusher, but I'd like to move him around too. It'd be nice to confuse opposing offenses rather than it be the other way around.
Maybe I'm too giddy over Dion, but if I were a def. coordinator I'd take advantage of all of his skills. We'll have to wait and see. -
Sooo basically the Dolphins will have to use bracket coverage on Graham. Out of all the posts I've seen, there doesn't seem to be anyone that can handle him 1-on-1.
Only problem with doubling Graham is, it leaves Sproles with LB's to cover him. Sproles wins that all day.
What's also dangerous about Graham is WHERE the Saints line him up at. Yea he's deadly with his hand on the ground, but the Saints like to line him up wide. -
Look at a couple of plays starting at 1:14 as per Jordan functioning in space and his quicks/acceleration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMoel8E3HaE
He can play the TE man off the LOS, pick him up in a zone with his acceleration and height, or fake the coverage and blitz with a Sefety picking up the TE. If the Dolphins don't use Jordan significantly in space, as a pass rushing/coverage OLB ideally, I think that they'll be wasting his talents as he locks horns with OTs at the LOS.
With Wake hurt I think that it's a fair assumption that Jordan will have increased pass rushing responsibilities to help pick up the slack. That being said, someone has to cover Jimmy Graham, and I think that Jordan could do a good job of it.Miamifan13 likes this. -
It's a little misleading to say Jordan covered slot receivers. He went out detached from the line of scrimmage just like most SAM linebackers would in those situations, and he physically mauled the receiver at the line and then just dropped back into a very short depth, simple zone from there. I don't know if that's covering the slot receiver so much as covering a zone where a slot receiver happened to be lined up at the moment.
He did cover tailbacks on wheel routes but that duty isn't all that uncommon. Miami very nearly scored a premature touchdown when Atlanta had Jonathan Massaquoi covering Lamar Miller on the wheel.
I like Dion Jordan in coverage. I think he covers like a linebacker. Not like a coverage linebacker. More like a Koa Misi.
But out in coverage he's a Volvo. Rushing the passer he's a Bugatti.ssmiami, eltos_lightfoot, dolfan32323 and 1 other person like this. -
Who in the NFL is a coverage linebacker if Dion isn't? -
And a lot of linebackers are better in coverage than Dion Jordan. Both Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett were better. Dannell Ellerbe and Phil Wheeler are better. You're severely overestimating his coverage. I don't think Dion's own coaches would agree with you if you're trying to say Dion is one of the best coverage linebackers in the NFL.Stringer Bell likes this. -
Saying he's closer to Koa Misi (4.8 40) than Dansby and Ellerbe is ridiculous.
I'm not trying to get Dion switched to LB or say that he's better than any of our LB's at their position, but I'll say it right here that I think Dion has a better chance at covering JG than anyone else on our defense. If playing zone works, then so be it. However, if we can't get pressure and JG is running free through our secondary with the ball, I'd like to give Dion a shot one-on-one. JG will rape Wheeler and Ellerbe in one-on-one coverage. That's not a knock on our LB's either, its just a bad size/speed matchup for them and most every other LB in the league. -
Just agree to disagree. -
I lean with CK on this one. With the probable absence of Wake, Miami needs that pressure on Brees. He can get rattled a bit, and if the game is close, an INT can change the layout of the game. IF Wake plays, maybe trying it out once or twice to throw them off might be something to consider.
My biggest issue with Jordan on Graham: ball skills. While I have no doubt those two are matched up athletically, Grahams' ball skills are out of this universe, and a PI call can change the game dynamics quickly, esp. in a raucous Superdome.
Graham is 3rd in the league in receiving yards and 2nd in TDs. He will get his touches. Minimizing his production will be difficult enough. How to accomplish this is the real challenge. -
I agree with you on ball skills and I know you were probably including this amongst your category of ball skills but what particularly concerns me about Jordan in coverage is simply his lack of awareness. He doesn't have a great grasp on passing lanes nor does he relate well to receivers in zone. And if you match him man to man on Jimmy Graham then in my opinion you're asking for big trouble because Jordan has virtually no experience being asked to do something like that and now suddenly he's being asked to do it against the best tight end in the game.
ssmiami, eltos_lightfoot and Stringer Bell like this. -
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As for the 2nd part of your analogy… what has your thoughts been on Dion rushing the passer so far this season? Have you been impressed/pleased/disappointed/etc? -
And its not necessarily about having the speed or agility as much as its about technique and recognition. Dion Jordan isn't taking practice reps with DBs. -
And there's just a certain percentage of times he will get you on that initial move. He's lengthy and athletic as hell. He needs to play more. If his shoulder is out of the woods to where you don't fear further damage, he needs to be starting.DePhinistr8 likes this. -
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned anywhere around here, but Dion Jordan has the highest Pass Rush Productivity (PRP) of any DE in the NFL who has played more than 25% of his teams snaps, according to PFF. He has 8 total pressures in 41 pass rush snaps, for a PRP of 15.2. Cam Wake is 5th among 4-3 DEs with a PRP of 14.3.
I'd be interested/curious to see how Jordan would do in coverage against Graham, but I don't want to see too much of it. And with Wake probably out, we need that pass rush from Jordan. -
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I would like to see Miami perhaps give up SOME of their more gimmicky pass rush packages and have Dion Jordan, Jared Odrick, Olivier Vernon/Derrick Shelby and Cam Wake all rush the passer with hands on the ground at the snap. I also favor the same thing with Randy Starks on the field instead of Vernon/Shelby. I don't know that the whole thing where they keep trying to have Vernon or Jordan with hand off the ground is working, as far as pass rush goes. It's working in terms of quarterback containment, and if you fear that then absolutely do it. But if you don't, then I'd rather get those guys down on the ground rushing the passer. -
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