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Do you think that we'll ever get back to where we were?

Discussion in 'Jobs Forum' started by Unlucky 13, May 1, 2014.

  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm not sure if this is the right sub-forum for this, but I thought that I'd ask to see what other people, perhaps more knowledgable than myself, thought.

    When I got into the workforce in the late 90s, at least where I was living at the time, nearly anyone who had a good work ethic, was fairly intelligent, and could prove themselves reliable and dependable could work themselves into a full time position where they could work one job, 40 hours a week, and cover their bills and live at least a lower middle class lifestyle. If a person did their job and was a good citizen, they could have the reasonable expectation that as long as the company didn't go under, the job would be there, and theirs, for the forseeable future.

    After college (I did my best for seven years but didn't graduate), I got a part time job at a retail store. Within a year, I got a promotion and worked myself into full time status, which gave me health insurance, vacation time, ect. I was promoted again a year later, and a year after that was in management making more than either of my parents. It was an enviornment where anyone who could prove that they were good at the job and reliable could move up the ladder, and there were a lot of rungs on the ladder. Also, anyone who did an adequate job could expect a yearly raise of between 4-6%.

    Fast forward a few years, and my company gradually eliminated almost all full time employees, eliminated any semblance of a ladder - leaving only mangers and minimum wage part time employees, and made it essentially impossible for anyone to ever get a raise. I've since learned that this is now commonplace almost everywhere.

    Will we ever get back to where we were? Where an average person can have the reasonable expectation of finding ONE job, working 40 hours a week, where they can at least afford a safe home and a car that runs? It looks pretty scary to me.
     
    MikeHoncho likes this.
  2. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Companies are getting greedier by the second. I totally feel where you are coming from on this. I used to work in retail too before I became a coach/teacher. I was a store manager at one of the biggest retailers in the U.S. Let me tell you, it was pure hell. I started off working a decent 45 hours per week on salary with good benefits. I guess corporate figured that $8 billion in profit per year wasn't good enough, so they fired the president/CEO and hired some new guy, then all management was required to work 60 hours per week without any pay increase or upgraded bonus incentives. The duties of the store manager doubled as they cut the payroll hours and pay of the assistant managers and part-time employees. Basically, as a store manager you were a one man crew. After the new requirements, I was only able to handle that for about a year.

    I will never go back to retail. Right now, I am getting paid to do something that fulfills me... coaching football and work with the youth. I have many friends who still work in the retail sector...and they all just seem depressed from being worked like a dog and not feeling appreciated. Most of them have done it for so long, that it's all they know. I know that it's hard if you don't have degree to fall back on, but my advice to all is to learn as much as you can from those retailers, save up some money, and take a chance in opening up your own business. If I didn't enjoy coaching and teaching so much, that is exactly what I would have done. Those corporations don't give a damn about the 'little guy'. The only thing they care about is profit. And the only way to consistently hit their profit quotas is to work the hell out of their employees while paying them nothing.

    Good luck, bro. Sacrifice and save up. Open up your own business and take a chance on yourself. Get out from under those greedy bastards. :knucks:
     
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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I absolutely understand where you're coming from. Right now, I'm a stay at home dad. I'll be that way for more than two years at least. When its time to get back into the workforce, I need to work for someone else. I'm just not wired to try to run my own business even in the best of times, and with two small kids, its not the right time.

    My hope is simply to find something stable that pays enough to keep up with my family's needs and pay the bills. I don't even need to enjoy it - I've never enjoyed a job I've had to this point. Just reliable, predictable work.
     
  4. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Yep.

    Responsibilities of full-time jobs were shifted to part-timers and interns (ultra-cheap labor considering the responsibilities) between then and now.

    Companies don't need to / don't care to offer competitive salaries for this reason.

    Best route IMO, is to sacrifice, get educated, and specialize. Be really really good at one single thing at any given time. Truth is most people don't do many things well enough; you normally try to do everything and master nothing.

    Depending on who you ask here in the states, the ACA won't help [quality] employment any time soon either. Then there's Southeast Asia, North Africa and the Middle East and the super ultra-cheap labor they offer.
     
  5. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 New Member

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    You should try to finish your degree. Most colleges offer online classes. Be prepared for 2 or 3 years from now. Don't just go out there green, hoping for the best. Start planning now. And it seems you may be.

    The economic environment is ever changing. People with decades of time on the job, the same job, get laid off. Its best to plan, and then plan again. You never know what's coming around the corner, good or bad.
     
  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, unfortunaely for me, finishing my degree just isn't going to happen. I completed all but four classes of my program in 4.5 years with a B average, but had either failed or withdrawn from two of the last four several times by that point. Fall of 2000, I took those same classes for the 3rd and 4th times respectively, and earned a D in each one, after concentrating almost all of my life effort on it. They were the prerequisites to the last two, which I then took in the spring, gave the same max effort to, and failed.

    At that point, I'd used up all of the student loans that would be available to me, and seeing few other options, took out two credit cards and charged the next semester to take them again, betting on myself to pass them on my second try. I failed again, and then repeated in the spring, and failed a 3rd time. They were classes that had as little to do with my major as possible, but were mandated by the school by people who didn't understand that, and I couldn't graduate without them.

    At that point, now in debt and with an a credit rating that was soon to take a dive into the toilet, I had no real choice but to give up, and work full time at the company I mentioned in my original post. These days, since its been 15 years since I've taken a class within my major, that's a former life for me.
     
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  7. WELDERPAT

    WELDERPAT New Member

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    No we will not get back to where we were.
     
  8. WELDERPAT

    WELDERPAT New Member

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    That is part of the problem.
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Shouldn't it be the goal of our society to do so? Would that not be better for the vast majority of people? If the current system is broken (which is badly is), then it needs to be replaced, by one way or another. If we continue to head in the direction that we're going, I think that its inevitable. Its not sustainable.
     
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  10. WELDERPAT

    WELDERPAT New Member

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    Yes sir you are absolutely right.
    As long as so many businesses are under the control of these Mitt Romney type *** holes there is no hope.
    What so many of these type of people do not see is when they ship jobs over seas we loose our customers.
    Let me give you an example.
    You own a factory making coat hangers.
    I own a factory making shirts.
    You find out that your cost can go from five cents per unit to three cents per unit if you move your manufacturing to China.
    So you do. You make millions of hangers a year, That two cents is a lot of money.
    I find out my costs can go from seven dollars a unit to five dollars a unit if I have them made in China.
    So I do. I make hundreds of thousands of shirts a year that two bucks is a lot of money.
    So we both are going to get rich right ?
    Nope.
    Some thing went wrong.
    The people that used to work at your factory bought my shirts.
    Now they don't have a job.
    The people that used to work at my factory used to buy your coat hangers.
    Now they don't have a job.
    So now we start selling our products to other countries.
    We make a few bucks.
    Hundreds of people have lost jobs.
    Are you with me so far ?
    Cause here is where it gets real good.
    We took two good factories out of the US and shipped them overseas so we could make a few more dollars.
    Now we don't have enough jobs.
    We have less payroll taxes going to our government.
    Our government runs low on money.
    So what do we do ?
    Put your feet behind your head so I can kick you square in the balls.
    WE BORROW MONEY FROM CHINA.
    Next time someone tells you "Its a Global economy" this is what they mean.
     
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  11. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    Low level jobs will be shifted more than likely. I think it was Buffett or gates who said we should be shooting for mid level managerial positions and they are right. managerial, software, engineering, those are the future. Factory jobs are probably gone for good. With telecommunications the way it is, it is just too cheap to ship jobs off shore.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Factory jobs are too low paying for American living standards. Just not feasible.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  13. WELDERPAT

    WELDERPAT New Member

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    So if you don't have a degree you don't deserve a job ?
     
  14. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    yes. That is exactly what I said. Thank you for reading that correctly.
     
  15. WELDERPAT

    WELDERPAT New Member

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    So what do all of those people do ?
    Do they just not work and starve ?
     
  16. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    that's not my point at all. The point is you should be moving most of your people away from factory jobs and shooting for mid tier jobs. Most companies operate with their management on shore and the lower jobs offshore.
    In other words you need to educate your people to higher levels better. We are a nation of consumers so you will still have jobs in sales, but most factory jobs will more than likely leave due to the cost of living here and things like the minimum wage.
     
  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    The point is that not everyone can work in higher level jobs, even if they desire to. Not everyone can be a manager, even in the unplausible scenerio where everyone is qualified to be one with a higher education. There will always be a certain percentage of people who are willing and able to do the factory type of work, and to work hard and do their best, but are simply unqualified to do much more. With these jobs disapearing more and more as time goes on, and quickly, we're being left with a huge hole for the workforce to look at. There are jobs at the very bottom, and then there are ones higher up. The lower third to half of the ladder that used to be there is now mostly gone. Jobs where people can make a lower middle class to strictly medium level living for 40 years are leaving. These are the jobs that are the very foundation of the lives that so many people have built for the past century.

    No amount of education or "want to" is going to fix it when they aren't there anymore. Jobs where someone could work hard and earn about 30k-40k (in today's money) are being replaced by minimum wage, part time work. You can't make a life that way,
     
  18. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    what? No amount of education will prepare people to take higher level jobs?
    No where in there did I say I expect everyone to go the managerial route. But, that doesn't mean you can't educate more than are being educated and prepare them for that. That's not even going into teaching people basic programming which would move them into those mid level jobs you are discussing. The fact of the matter is you have to be able to create a workforce that can compete globally, no longer just nationally. You can't do that by waiting around for factory jobs that will probably never come back. None of what I said is impossible.
    Yes, factory jobs were the foundation of our economy. Now they are the foundation of someone else's economy. In our economy you will still have service industry jobs, but you will also need things like more programmers. Encouraging your population to go to college and giving them the means to can prepare your work force better. I'm not sure why any one find this impossible really.
     
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Do you believe everyone is entitled to a job???

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  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    YES! Of course! 1000 times yes!

    Every single able bodied adult who is willing to do their best and obey the law and rules deserves a living wage, full time job with full benefits. The money is obviously there for that to be able to happen, its just stuck in the hands of the greedy few.
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm looking out for the needs of the many. For everyone. Not just those who are highly skilled.
     
  22. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    I'm not sure what your point is then. Are you trying to talk about the wealth gap? I'm telling you what I think needs to be done to compete globally as well as grow your middle class. I'm not sure what it is you're after.
     
  23. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    About making sure that as many people as possible have one 40 hr/week job that can sustain at least a lower middle class lifestyle. I don't want to put words into your mouth, but you seem to keep ignoring the fact that in no reality could everyone achieve "moving up the ladder". There will always need to be lower level jobs that allow for an adequate life for those that cannot.
     
  24. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    I continually stated I don't expect everyone to.
    In fact I stated just that multiple times:
    If this is just going to turn into nah uh nah uh nah uh let me know please so I don't waste my time anymore. Thanks.
     
  25. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I don't mean to go around in circles or seem like an ***. I'm sorry if I made anywhere close to that impression. ok?

    Here's my question to you. If a certain percentage of people cannot get jobs that pay enough to have a home, transportation, food, clothing, ect...not because they're lazy, or criminals, but because those jobs just aren't there any more....what do those people do? I think that was the crux of Wlderpat's comment from before.
     
  26. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    Right. His comment was based on taking what I said out of context. I never said **** those people. I did say the economy needs to be shifted and in order to do that education needs to be better. If you're asking how to close the wealth gap, bring up the minimum wage as the US has been inflating the dollar for quite some time, hence why you have a larger amount of people falling below the poverty line. Bringing up the minimum wage would close the gap and cause other positions to go up more than likely as well.
     
  27. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, while I think that the wealth gap is an enormous problem, and that the minimum wage needs to be raised, my comments here are a seperate issue. Going back to my original posts in the thread, the erosion of those second and third rung jobs on the ladder is really hurting people. While I was still working, I was lucky enough to "get in" while the opprotunity to move up was still there, but for someone in a similar situation today, the only option is the bleak future of part time min wage forever.
     

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