Dolphans Expectations vs Reality

"GunnerDog wrote:

On the Ball? so you think were only going to win 2 more games? way to be postive for gods sake. 2 out of 6. ill give us at least 3 matbe 4

It's hard to determine right now but if we can't beat Oakland tomorrow it does not look good. 7-9 could be very realistic. That would basically have us coming out on top against probably Buffalo and Detroit. Cleveland is far from a pushover and our odds of taking down the Pats or Jets on the road are not looking wonderful right now. Detroit is pretty terrible on the road so we should be good with that game at least.

"muscle979 wrote:

More excuses, teams rebuild all the time. You forgot to mention they got to come onboard with some great draft picks to work with as well. Having number one overall and number 33 sure doesn't hurt anything. Your point might be valid if they wouldn't have done just what you described and won the division the next season. Easy schedule or not you have to do more than just walk onto the field to win any division. Especially when there was another 11 win team there. The other teams had that easy schedule too. We're not talking about Miami and a bunch of 8 win and worse teams. The fact is they made the team respectable very quickly and have proceeded to tread water the next two seasons while the competition has gotten better. And nobody's saying they should have won 11 games again, or 12. The product on the field is not getting better. Their ability to compete with top tier teams has not improved one bit from 08. The offense has regressed. I wonder how long 2007 can continue to be the excuse for failure? Two more years? Three?

What is your take on a proper plane of progression for an expansion team?..

Your kind of expectations is the worst kind, it gives no fundamental reasoning for a proper plane of progression from a specific starting point....you want results and you dont care....

imo, your take is a pure fans perspective that doesn't care, or want to understand the process...

completely illogical...and in a small way, very damaging to a franchise.

Our fan base is so beaten down that we not only accept this mediocrity but embrace it and love it. The mere notion that Chad Henne is going to come back as some superstar is laughable. Our fans need to read their Nietzsche. We're slave mentality personified

wins over the bills & lions would be a nice way to go out, my expectations may even embrace the Raiders as a Miami win & then what? likely as not we lose all three games. its a 50/50 proposition @ best
we are tied @ 31st in offense. think about it. what difference would it make @ this point in time? we need to rebuild not re-tool the offense in the up-coming draft & free-agency.

this season is over. thank you coach Sparano

"muscle979 wrote:

More excuses, teams rebuild all the time. You forgot to mention they got to come onboard with some great draft picks to work with as well. Having number one overall and number 33 sure doesn't hurt anything. Your point might be valid if they wouldn't have done just what you described and won the division the next season. Easy schedule or not you have to do more than just walk onto the field to win any division. Especially when there was another 11 win team there. The other teams had that easy schedule too. We're not talking about Miami and a bunch of 8 win and worse teams. The fact is they made the team respectable very quickly and have proceeded to tread water the next two seasons while the competition has gotten better. And nobody's saying they should have won 11 games again, or 12. The product on the field is not getting better. Their ability to compete with top tier teams has not improved one bit from 08. The offense has regressed. I wonder how long 2007 can continue to be the excuse for failure? Two more years? Three?

Many people now a days want a Burger King or Pizza Hut for dinner. They see no "excuse" for waiting on a different type dinner to be prepared, as it takes too much time. I am not among them. :)

"djphinfan wrote:

What is your take on a proper plane of progression for an expansion team?..

Your kind of expectations is the worst kind, it gives no fundamental reasoning for a proper plane of progression from a specific starting point....you want results and you dont care....

imo, your take is a pure fans perspective that doesn't care, or want to understand the process...

completely illogical...and in a small way, very damaging to a franchise.

Where does wasting money on free agent busts fall into the process? Where does signing and starting Dallas castoffs fall into the process? Where does getting worse every season on offense fall into the process? The inability to adopt a true offensive identity after three years, is that part of the process? Where does changing our starting center and guards every season fall into the process? Please don't insult my intelligence by insinuating that I'm missing some magical process that is taking place right in front of our very eyes. They have picked up some good young players and even managed to add a couple of vets who have actually not been a waste of money. Despite that the product on the field is not improving. Who's fault is that? Is that part of the process too?

Mike Smith took over an Atlanta team that was in shambles in the wake of the Michael Vick situation. Look at what he has done. His 'down' season was 9-7. How about Sean Peyton in New Orleans? The Ravens were also bad in 07. People want to act like John Harbaugh was just gifted with some great team. They were the one in our 1-15. Some great team. All that guy does is win and add good players. The Jets have managed to stay competitive while adding some good young players over the last couple of seasons or so. The NFL is built to facilitate quick turnarounds. It isn't MLB. I'm amazed more people don't see that.

"Southbeach wrote:

Many people now a days want a Burger King or Pizza Hut for dinner. They see no "excuse" for waiting on a different type dinner to be prepared, as it takes too much time. I am not among them. :)

You're making the assumption that the dinner is actually coming. I see a team that is getting worse, aside from the defense.

"muscle979 wrote:

You're making the assumption that the dinner is actually coming. I see a team that is getting worse, aside from the defense.

Perfectly said. I'd be happy to continue with these guys if there was any evidence that we were actually about ready to contend. There is no such evidence

"djphinfan wrote:

What is your take on a proper plane of progression for an expansion team?..

Your kind of expectations is the worst kind, it gives no fundamental reasoning for a proper plane of progression from a specific starting point....you want results and you dont care.... imo, your take is a pure fans perspective that doesn't care, or want to understand the process...

completely illogical...and in a small way, very damaging to a franchise.

This is ridiculous, especially given you gave no defense whatsoever for the FO's plan of action other than imply there's some magical process going on. The blueprint for success is not that hard. The key is that you need good talent evaluators and good coaches to implement these steps. But the first thing you should always do is get your QB. I love Jake Long but you just have to find your QB immediately. Look at the Dolphins over the past decade, they always think they can cheat. They'll use their first round picks on other players and grab that gem somewhere that other teams passed on. That's worked out well.

"muscle979 wrote:

You're making the assumption that the dinner is actually coming. I see a team that is getting worse, aside from the defense.

And you are making the assumption that it is not. Here's a couple of fair questions:

Which players and/or positions are worse than they were a year ago, specifically the young guys? Which "available" players would you have brought in that we did not?

Which team/teams have done better than our team in acquiring talent over the past three off seasons through FA, draft, and trades?

"muscle979 wrote:

This is ridiculous, especially given you gave no defense whatsoever for the FO's plan of action other than imply there's some magical process going on. The blueprint for success is not that hard. The key is that you need good talent evaluators and good coaches to implement these steps. But the first thing you should always do is get your QB. I love Jake Long but you just have to find your QB immediately. Look at the Dolphins over the past decade, they always think they can cheat. They'll use their first round picks on other players and grab that gem somewhere that other teams passed on. That's worked out well.

So, which QB would you have signed or drafted? Long vs Ryan is debatable. Who else?

Jets, pats, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, TB even Detroit.

"Southbeach wrote:

And you are making the assumption that it is not. Here's a couple of fair questions:

Which players and/or positions are worse than they were a year ago, specifically the young guys? Which "available" players would you have brought in that we did not?

Which team/teams have done better than our team in acquiring talent over the past three off seasons through FA, draft, and trades?

Players... I'm looking at production. Our units appear to be underachieving. You have an outstanding slot receiver, a top five WR, two pro bowl running backs, a pretty good FB, and a future HOFer at left tackle and you're the lowest scoring offense in the league? Why is that? The offense has no identity. Last year they were a run first team. So why did they do nothing at RB? Knowing Ronnie might get hurt and Ricky was old. Why did nothing happen? They didn't draft anyone, didn't even give LT a look. If the guys we have go down I guess Patrick Cobbs has it under control. Of course it's hard to go down only carrying the ball 5 or 6 times a game. You can count the entire offense as a unit that is for whatever reason worse than last year. With more talent at the skill positions. Getting better players and producing LESS is an indictment, not a defense.

Just off the top of my head:

Atlanta
Baltimore
New Orleans
NY Jets

All teams that were bad not that long ago and have done a better job acquiring talent and GETTING RESULTS with that talent on the field.

"Southbeach wrote:

So, which QB would you have signed or drafted? Long vs Ryan is debatable. Who else?

In 2008 Ryan and Flacco were the top rated guys unless I'm missing somebody. Since we had the top pick I would have taken one of those guys. I think they're both pretty good QBs. Guys you can build your offense around. The Jets traded up in 09 to get their guy. When you're starting from scratch you do whatever it takes to get your guy.

"schmolioot wrote:

Jets, pats, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, TB even Detroit.

Over the last 3 years? You're gonna have to prove that to me.

We were ranked #1 last off season by everyone, even Kiper. LOL Our 08 draft, including Bess and Carpenter was recently ranked at the top. Add in Davis, Smith, Fasano, Polite, Starks, Smith, Hartline, and a man called Wake.

You got a ways to go to convince me.

"muscle979 wrote:

In 2008 Ryan and Flacco were the top rated guys unless I'm missing somebody. Since we had the top pick I would have taken one of those guys. I think they're both pretty good QBs. Guys you can build your offense around. The Jets traded up in 09 to get their guy. When you're starting from scratch you do whatever it takes to get your guy.

As I said, Long vs Ryan was/is debatable. Flacco is rated #15, Henne #17, and I believe Henne will be better. That's all ya got? JK

"Southbeach wrote:

As I said, Long vs Ryan was/is debatable. Flacco is rated #15, Henne #17, and I believe Henne will be better. That's all ya got? JK

Flacco was rated higher in the draft. That's all that matters at that point in time. I think Flacco is a better QB at this point in time. I don't think that's even that debatable. I see and hear about his play a lot b/c I live 20 minutes from Baltimore.

"muscle979 wrote:

Players... I'm looking at production. Our units appear to be underachieving. You have an outstanding slot receiver, a top five WR, two pro bowl running backs, a pretty good FB, and a future HOFer at left tackle and you're the lowest scoring offense in the league? Why is that? The offense has no identity. Last year they were a run first team. So why did they do nothing at RB? Knowing Ronnie might get hurt and Ricky was old. Why did nothing happen? They didn't draft anyone, didn't even give LT a look. If the guys we have go down I guess Patrick Cobbs has it under control. Of course it's hard to go down only carrying the ball 5 or 6 times a game. You can count the entire offense as a unit that is for whatever reason worse than last year. With more talent at the skill positions. Getting better players and producing LESS is an indictment, not a defense.

Just off the top of my head:

Atlanta
Baltimore
New Orleans
NY Jets

All teams that were bad not that long ago and have done a better job acquiring talent and GETTING RESULTS with that talent on the field.

As you know, I was talking the last 3 years. And the teams you mention had much more to start with, and were prior to what I asked.

You take three starters from the center of the OL from ANY team, and try to tell me they would be as good.

"muscle979 wrote:

Flacco was rated higher in the draft. That's all that matters at that point in time. I think Flacco is a better QB at this point in time. I don't think that's even that debatable. I see and hear about his play a lot b/c I live 20 minutes from Baltimore.

IF draft ranking is all that matters, we should have traded half our team for Jamarcus Russell. Could you try to get back to being at least somewhat serious?

"Southbeach wrote:

Argee with both of you DJ. In 08, we were a below average team that got lucky. Last year, we were about an average team, and this year I believe we are an above average team, all things considered.

An above average team ? :sidelol: in what area ? ST are a joke, NE exposed that, and got the ST coach fired. At QB ? We've had little to no scoring production from Henne. OL ? That part of the team never did pan out after Sparano & Ireland decided that it was their coaching, not the players ability that made the line 4th best last year. We all saw the run game fall tremendously off because they just think that they know it all, and now we have no running game, and have RB's that will be even older next year (unless we draft a stud in the 1st round).

Dude, stop with the rah-rah. We all love the Dolphins, but to be endlessly syrupy optimistic is just flat out ridiculous, and insulting to the people that post here with real concerns over the state of this franchise and where it is heading.

"Southbeach wrote:

Over the last 3 years? You're gonna have to prove that to me.

We were ranked #1 last off season by everyone, even Kiper. LOL Our 08 draft, including Bess and Carpenter was recently ranked at the top. Add in Davis, Smith, Fasano, Polite, Starks, Smith, Hartline, and a man called Wake.

You got a ways to go to convince me.

where are you getting these rankings? We've drafted one superstar since this regime took over. Two if you count Davis

"Southbeach wrote:

IF draft ranking is all that matters, we should have traded half our team for Jamarcus Russell. Could you try to get back to being at least somewhat serious?

Jamarcus Russell was in the 08 draft? I don't see how the Dolphins FO's rating of a player in a draft isn't all the matters. You brought up the fact that statistically this season Henne is close to Flacco. I say in regards to where they were rated in the 08 draft that is irrelevant. I'm not so sure any team had Henne rated ahead of Flacco in the draft but who knows.

"Southbeach wrote:

As you know, I was talking the last 3 years. And the teams you mention had much more to start with, and were prior to what I asked.

You take three starters from the center of the OL from ANY team, and try to tell me they would be as good.

This makes little sense as it is the Miami FO's fault they don't have anything settled in the interior of the line by year three. Those teams don't have to use our starters there, they got better ones. How much did Atlanta have to start with? They were in shambles. I lived down in Georgia at the time. There was very little optimism around the team. New Orleans sucked too. Baltimore had just been 5-11 and lost to that 07 Fins team that was supposedly the worst team that ever played. They had to rebuild their offense and they took steps to improve the defense. Ray Lewis can't do everything. That 07 Fins team was bad but could have won more games without a clueless coach. They started with what every rebuilding team starts with, a few decent players and some high draft picks. These excuses can get crazy sometimes.

"muscle979 wrote:

In 2008 Ryan and Flacco were the top rated guys unless I'm missing somebody. Since we had the top pick I would have taken one of those guys. I think they're both pretty good QBs. Guys you can build your offense around. The Jets traded up in 09 to get their guy. When you're starting from scratch you do whatever it takes to get your guy.

I like the phrase that some one (maybe you Muscle) stated in an earlier post. The Dolphins since Dan Marino left have been trying to cheat at aquiring the most important position on the team, that of the QB. We need to sh!t or get off the pot on Henne. He needs to be worked, and worked hard the rest of this season, put in all kinds of positions of hardship to see if he is the man or not. If he isn't, then QB should become the # 1 priority in the off-season. NUMBER 1 !!!! Atlanta, Baltimore and NY understand this, and are now reaping the rewards of due diligence and finding the right man for their offense. Yes Sanchez is behind the others, but he also left school a year early, only started 16 games in college. He is very raw, but also has loads of talent, and scary for us, will only get better.

"schmolioot wrote:

where are you getting these rankings? We've drafted one superstar since this regime took over. Two if you count Davis

The rankings were from NFL.com, and ESPN. They include FA signings and trades. How about yourself, and your rankings?