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Dolphins@49ers notes

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disgustipate, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    The dive took a perfect pass in his hands down to one in his forearms. It was a great pass to an open receiver.
     
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  2. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    I don't know how anyone could see it otherwise.

    The dive was certainly unnecessary.

    The pass was certainly great
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The problem is, he didn't "run off" the coverage at all. The way I saw it, he was in single with a safety in the middle choosing to stay at home instead of respecting Davone deep, and the safety was drawn into the coverage by Tannehill throwing the ball. I thought he recovered so much lost ground simply because Bess is so slow.

    If I'm wrong so be it but I think when the All 22 of that play comes out it will have been a good decision from the standpoint of throwing to the weakness in the coverage (from having watched a lot of Dolphins All 22 I can say Bess is OFTEN disrespected drastically by the coverage in the deep field).
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    oh I think it's his problem..if I'm Ross, he's on the hotseat, and I'm finding out exactly who was responsible for what when Parcells was here..

    His two seasons are'nt lookin good enough..
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Given the icy relationship between Parcells and Ross, and the way Parcells continually found ways to express his discomfort with Ross as an owner, I think convincing Ross that Parcells was to blame was an easy sell for Jeff Ireland. Especially with Ross' friend and confident Carl Peterson in Ireland's corner.
     
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  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You are aware where this happened on the field, right?
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    predraft, I had him out of the first round when a lot of pundits were saying we would take him in the first..that's when I started watching his games, my argument was mostly based in why he's not a first round pick, and why I wouldn't draft him with our 2nd.

    For me every evaluation begins with the body..I got a lot of heat before the draft when I said that he wasn't built like a tackle to me, I considered his physique small for the position, I didn't like the development of his musculature, thought it looked immature, and underdeveloped..

    I've seen him get beat so many times in college, and got saved so many times by his Qb, it became alarming..I don't see the ability to counter with a base of power, I see him getting lifted off his feet way too many times, I see him whiffing on blocks more than once, I see him getting beat by swat moves that consistently knock him off his fundamentals and balance, I just haven't seen the flashes..Then the preseason didn't change my mind, and here we are today, questioning the pick imo...I know we needed a right tackle, but that's not n excuse for this case, he's got to hit on that pick..personally, I wasn't happy,because if it was me, I would of been skipping up to the commish with Russell Wilson's name on that 2nd..

    imo he didn't seem to spend a lot of time training his physique for his sport relatively speaking for a 21 year old, ( shame on him), so where I would start with him on getting better?.......bigger.....faster.....stronger..

    Honestly, Im wondering if he can transition to guard..

    If serviceable is what your looking for in high 2 nd rounders, It's not good enough.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes, I'm fully aware.

    I just reviewed the play. It was about how I remembered it. The safeties split out to the sidelines to provide cover for the perimeter receivers Brian Hartline and Rishard Matthews, leaving the middle of the field vacant with no help for slot corner Carlos Rogers who was covering Davone Bess. Bess ran a post directly into the deep middle which was being actively vacated by Whitner and even with Whitner's speed and Bess' lack thereof, Whitner never really recovered enough to get into the play. The problem is that Rogers was able to stay so tight to Bess underneath him in man coverage that the window for that throw was really very small.

    It was a good read. Davone Bess has near zero ability to get enough separation to create a bigger window, nor does he have any ability to run under the ball. But then I'm not sure what in the hell Tannehill was supposed to do with both safeties sitting on top of Matthews and Hartline, and both Daniel Thomas and Anthony Fasano stuck in the backfield carrying water for Nate Garner and Jon Martin.

    Where do you expect Tannehill to throw that football? To the double covered Brian Hartline, the double covered Rishard Matthews, or the single covered Davone Bess?
     
  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I read these things and want a great WR so badly. And Tackles who don't put us at a 9 on 11 situation by requiring help.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That was probably the biggest problem on the play. To that point in the game, Aldon Smith had outright embarrassed Jon Martin on a number of occasions, and the team themselves regarded Nate Garner as a weakness (or so I was told by a media member who was told this by someone inside the building). They felt like they had to stick guys in the backfield on delayed routes so that they could watch Martin's and Garner's backs. The 49ers had cleverly overloaded the left side of the offensive line, split Aldon Smith way out wide to the right side of the offensive line, and had two linebackers leveraged toward Fasano's side. Daniel Thomas was there in case a blitzer snuck through but Anthony Fasano was blatantly there for one purpose, to help Nate Garner out by chipping Aldon Smith.

    But in the secondary if you watch the All 22 then I think you're going to see both safeties more concerned with getting out to the perimeter so that the perimeter corners could play aggressively, than they were concerned with Davone Bess streaking into the deep middle covered by Carlos Rogers.

    Regardless, Davone Bess was not "running off" the coverage. He didn't draw the safety. The throw drew the safety, eventually...but not early enough for him to really get to the throw.
     
  11. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And until and unless that changes, good luck winning consistently.
     
  12. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    It can, but the research has been done to adjudicate this issue, and it shows Tannehill is the problem.

    Of course you're free to put less stock in that research than I do, and I presume that's why I have my opinion and you have yours.
     
  13. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Isn't that what's routinely said about the passing windows in the NFL?
     
  14. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    You guys saw the throw he made to Fasano?

    How many guys that we've had since 13 can physically make that throw with that touch?

    Let's throw the baby out with the bathwater part of the way through his first season though?

    RIDICULOUS.

    DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW ROOKIE QBs work? How many get rings? how many get to the playoffs? LEARN TO MANAGE EXPECTATIONS. christ on a cracker.
     
  15. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    What is your proposed solution?
     
  16. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Patiently await his further development, and hope it happens.
     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Your excuse making is pathetic
     
  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    hahahhaha!!!!!!! No "research" has been done to show Tannehill is the problem. I can't wait till the offseason shows your spank monkey receiver isn't viewed by ANYONE as a primary receiver!!!! CANT WAIT!!! Hopefully you hear of the news while standing atop a 40 story building.
     
  19. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    What research btw?
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You've changed your story, and neither one makes sense.

    Either Whitner was waiting for Bess the entire time and didn't backpedal any because he doesn't respect Bess(despite, you know, that not making any sense at all given where they were on the field), or he was able to leisurely jog across the field and cover someone who he didn't respect at all(despite the part about him being clearly in a deep zone and Bess his responsibility).

    It was a **** decision, and the safety wasn't simultaneously covering both Bess and another receiver.
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm quite optimistic at Tannehill, but blaming everyone else when he makes bad decisions is unnecessary to maintain your desired narrative, and more than a little silly.

    Also, I'm waiting for someone to blame Fasano for having to dive to catch that pass on him being too slow.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Of course I'm changing my story. How convenient for you.

    I said the play was MOSTLY how I remembered it. Whereas I thought Donte Whitner was able to get back into the play, when I looked at the replay I saw that he wasn't really in position to make a play on the ball where it was thrown and where Bess was running. Whitner was more in position to challenge the throw if Bess ran to the corner instead of the post.

    But the fact of the matter is Whitner was indeed disrespecting Bess as he showed no interest in covering him deep. He left it completely up to Carlos Rogers, who also had no trouble covering him.

    You've yet to show, in any way whatsoever, how that was a "****" decision. So I ask again. With Donte Whitner splitting out to the perimeter to stay on top of Brian Hartline, and the other safety splitting out to the perimeter to stay on top of Rishard Matthews, Anthony Fasano and Daniel Thomas both in the backfield carrying water for our sh-tty tackle tandem, and Davone Bess' route in the deep middle being the only route drawing single coverage...where would YOU have gone with the football? Why was throwing to Bess a "sh-t" decision? You've provided no reason or evidence whatsoever. Instead of arguing smarter, you just argue louder.
     
  23. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Bess it has his best when he can cut 90 degrees on a route... if he's cutting 45 degrees, he's pretty well useless because he doesn't have any deep speed. The read to him was perfect by Tannehill.. .the fault I guess is that perhaps he should know better or maybe he should be more accurate? But that's really nitpicking.

    I'm curious to see how the oline grades out from this game though on PFF. On one hand I think as a unit they played fairly well against a top notch defense... but on the other, they were helped by chips and keeping backs/tight ends into block at crucial moments in the game, limiting Tannehill's options downfield as is being noted here. Would have liked to have seen more runs/screens, misdirection plays on our final drive (down 7). We had plenty of time to run whatever we wanted, see the drive where we scored the TD to bring it within 7. That was a balanced, well thought out drive. Yet for some reason, we panicked on that last drive and tried to force it down the field... it was odd. Have to blame Sherman for that .
     
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  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Ask and you shall receive. They gave Pouncey a positive grade (+1.6) and surprisingly a positive grade for Richie Incognito (+1.0) and Nate Garner (+1.3). However I remember from the game that Garner was helped a fair amount, especially at the end when the 49ers decided to see how we'd react if they flopped Aldon Smith over to his side.

    Prior to the game I had a producer at WQAM tell me he heard from sources inside the building that privately they were a lot more worried about Nate Garner than Jon Martin and that they had a contingency plan in place for flipping John Jerry and Nate Garner if Garner proved too big a liability. For most of the game though they left Ahmad Brooks and Ray McDonald on Garner, and Garner was able to block them well (with a little help, at times). But I noticed that when the 49ers decided to try Aldon over there, the Dolphins were quick to call for help from the tight end and backs to chip on Aldon. Quicker than they were for Jon Martin.
     
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  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Without having looked at the play from that angle, I've got no idea. If there was no other option, it's not a **** decision, but I'm rather loathe to accept your opinion that it was the case.

    In practice though, it's a perfectly acceptable route for Bess to run, and it's fair grounds to criticize Tannehill for throwing it. It's not at all uncommon for routes to be run for purposes other than directly targeting that player.
     
  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yeah besides a few plays I thought the offensive line played better than expected. I think Martin is going to be a good player.
     
  27. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've been quick to defend Hartline and Bess. And I still think they are good but flawed players. But the more I watch this offense the more glaring the need for a fast WR (coughwhydidweeverlettedginngocough) is. I thought the line did fairly well given the circumstances. And to nitpick with Tanny, he could move a bit better in the pocket to help them out. I continue to hate our running game. But I thought the coaches did a much better job than they have all year with the playcalling in hiding our ****ty running game and being more aggressive downfield.

    Jared Odrick is kind of the Hartline/Bess of the defense to me. He seems to be good against the run. And he pressured Kaepernick from the DT spot some, which suggests he might have decent value if played in that spot more. But he highlights a big need that is holding the defense back, which is someone other than Cam Wake who can pressure the QB. This is as glaring a hole as a WR who can threaten defenses deep. Until we get it we will be an incomplete football team, which means we will continue to lose in the depressing manner we usually seem to.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Asking a three hundred pounder to run the arc, execute spin moves, rip moves to get to the qb is quite unrealistic considering his skillset, putting him on the inside allowing him to be more efficient with his hands in confined space, is something he can do.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    This Wr stuff may cause me to bump threads from 09-10 wherein the same crap was said about Henne needing a "alpha" or #1 Wr"

    We added him, guess what?
     
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  30. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you're comparing Tanny to Henne already?

    And even if Tanny isn't the answer, that #1 WR and seam busting TE will still be an asset to the team.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This offseason is so going to offense loaded..

    I would go for change at every position skillset wise.

    Jennings would take the 1

    Hartline the two

    Bess the three.

    Tavon Austin 4th and X factor player.

    Tyler Eiffert the tight end.

    Step Taylor/Monte ball running back..

    Transformation complete and you only had to use 3 draft picks..
     
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  32. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would probably go with Bernard at RB.

    Otherwise, I agree. That would be the ideal scenario.
     
  33. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    What about Martin's grade?
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What I am saying is the receiving corps doesn't matter as much as people seem to believe it does.

    Put it this way, Steelers inserted Charlie Batch, and they were terrible, same Wr group.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It was like -5.2 or somewhere abouts. I figured people wouldn't want to know that one...
     
  36. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    heh.. that's the one I was most interested in.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    According to PFF, Jon Martin is the 4th worst OT in football.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But then you can't have Eiffert...

    Would you take right now Eiffert/Ball or Rocky/Ertz?...
     
  39. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You mean the sam C Batch that beat the Ravens? Wait that doesnt fit your argument, forget that........
     
  40. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bernard can't fall to the 2nd?

    I would rather have Eifert/Ball, lol.
     

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