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Dolphins being cheap or smart??

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by finyank13, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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  2. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Personally I want them to get a player like Rolle! We are starting to be known around the league as cheap and eventually that is going to bite us. Perhaps it already does, I really don't read of any other teams getting FA stolen from them while we are hosting them like the Dolphins have lately.
     
  3. Ultra

    Ultra Lazy

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    there's a difference between bolstering your team for a Super Bowl run and just rebuilding. I think we are still trying to build the core. I think next year is when we go wild in free agency, assuming our draft picks pan out.
     
  4. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    basically what you said. You give them fair offers, negotiate a bit, but you don't give up the future for it. Yes, to win you have to spend money, but you have to do so wisely. Not to aggressive, but not to cautious either. I'd say our fo has done a bit of both and has gotten burned, wilford, and possibly smiley and grove.
     
  5. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    This team would have won 10 or 11 games and the division in 2009 if it wasn't for GERBIL! We are closer to a Superbowl run then most think!
     
  6. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    They aren't cheap...Dansby contract is the richest ever, Long I know they had to spend the money because of the draft pick they were in that year....Carey if I'm not mistaken is right there as the top grossing RT's in the game....they do spend the money...I believe when they do find a true number one WR, they will pay him like it as well.....the last thing I would want is Miami to do what the Bears just did...
     
  7. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    I dont know if we would have won 3-4 more games if Gerbil wasn't there.
     
  8. phineas64

    phineas64 Season Ticket Holder

    Keep in mind these players went somewhere else, and not always for the currently stated reason. They have a vested interest in not talking bad about the team that signed them.

    Clark said initially the Dolphins offered more money, but he wanted to stay in Pitt. Not cheap on our part, a choice on his. He can't really say he used the Fins to drive up his hometown price, now can he?

    Rolle is saying the Fins are cheap, cause the alternative is to say the Giants overspent. And if you look at salaries around the league, Rolle just got paid top 5 money, and he's not a top 5 guy on the field. But to say anything else would be to diss the team he just signed with. And we did offer $32M, which was way more than I expected. A huge deal for a guy who isn't an Ed Reed guy. But $37M is even bigger, so he took it.

    In the end, players are free to sign or not sign. They make the choice on what is best for them, not the team. The team puts out an offer it feels is enough to sign the player, while not leaving them in a poor position financially in the future. If not for some prep work last year, we don't have the $$$ to sign Dansby this year. Same convo last year - we're too cheap to sign top flight players. Well, now we signed one, and the talk is all about how cheap we are? Come on, Dansby just signed the highest contract ever for his position/role. You pick your shots. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Remember Shula's last push? Major $$$ spent, very little in return. The team spent a few years purging salaries before they had any money to spend.
     
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  9. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Just because Rolle thinks he is worth more doesn't make it so. Even though it is disappointing sometimes, I would rather be a little fiscally responsible and not pay too much for these guys. That way when we do find the right guys who are worth the money we actually have it to pay them.

    I'd rather not take the Dan Snyder approach to building a football team, thank you.
     
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  10. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    3 or 4 games because of one player
    yeah he was bad but you are being downright irrational :up:
     
  11. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    He is the highest paid FS....
     
  12. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Really how much did we lose to the Colts by? Remember the int he dropped? Remember 2 plays later GERBIL bouncing off Clarke for a 80yd td? Anyother safety tackle Clarke for a 15yard gain. Anyother safety makes the interception and takes it to the house.

    How much did we lose to the Titans by? Remember the 3rd and long play from the Titans 40 that GERBIL had perfect position never got his head around and Justin Gage gets a career long TD? Any other safety wither knocks it down or intercepts it

    How much did we lose to the Pats by? Where was the over the top help on Moss?

    Want more we are beating the Chargers 6-3 then the middle of our defense is exploited and Gates and Jackson go crazy.

    Nice tackle and coverage he had on Gonzo during the opener huh?

    Texans game he was sharp too
     
  13. phineas64

    phineas64 Season Ticket Holder

    but not the best on the field. Overpaid.


    I was too lazy to check out the other salaries, so I didn't want to say he was the highest and then get flamed when I was wrong. :lol:

    Top 5 seemed pretty safe though, and I don't think he has performed to even that level.
     
  14. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Rolle is a cb to fs convert and made the probowl. He hasn't even hit is prime as a player let alone a FS he is well worth it!

    Wonder what your thought will be when we see the deep middle getting torched again in 2010.
     
  15. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    No one was sharp in the Texans game
    we could have beat the colts if ginn doesnt drop the football
    wilson led the team in tackles against Tennesse

    get it

    This is a team game and if you ever think one player cost you four football games you are being absolutely delusional and clueless
    like I said Gibril was bad but you cant point all the blame toward this one guy
    that is your witch hunt and your problem
    i see where you are going here you are all upset and pulling a fit because we dint sign Rolle or Clark
    get over it and grow up
     
  16. phineas64

    phineas64 Season Ticket Holder

    Ummm, he is in the prime years of his career, we pretty much know who he is now. I'm not in any way saying he sucks, I'm saying he isn't the best, or worth the most money of all FS in the league.

    Would I like to see him here? Sure. But not at prohibitive price, and I think $37m was way over the top.
     
  17. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    Live from the Internet.
    Smart.
     
  18. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    First off don't tell me to grow up you don't know me and I guarantee you would never speak that way to my face! I respect your opinion to disagree with me and have not resorted to insults.

    Football is a game that changes on a single play! The Ted Ginn play you reference was actually 2 him getting lost in the endzone in the first half and dragging his feet with 4 yards remaining and then dropping the ball at the end. Both of those plays would have been a mute point if GERBIL had A. Caught the int or B. Tackle Clarke like he was paid to do!

    Last spare me any of your insight on what you actually think football is, how it is played, and what determines the out come of the game! Go ask Peyton Manning if he thinks the pick 6 he threw cost them the Superbowl!

    In college I was a scholarship QB DII out of high school, then moved up to a MAC school with a full ride until multiple surgeries ended my playing days. That means I accomplished something 98% of high school football players failed to do. I will put my knowledge about football against anyone on this or any forum seeing how I have played at higher levels then 99% of them.
     
  19. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Normally, I'd be squarely in the "THOSE CHEAP BASTARDS!" camp.

    But given that the contract Antrel Rolle got was horribly disproportionate with how mediocre he is...and given that Clark may have shot up to "fan favorite" in no time flat, but he is still a FS who plays like a SS (8 INTs in 8 years, anyone?) I think we dodged a bullet with both those guys.
     
  20. Ultra

    Ultra Lazy

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    The problem (IMO) with saying Gibril cost us 4 games, is that you don't know how the other team is affected by those plays if Gibril does make the INT, deflects a pass, or makes a tackle. Whose to say that the other team doesn't just get the TD on the next play, or change up their offense later. Or what if we get the INT and the next play Henne throws an INT. There is just too many 'what if's' to definitively say how many games Gibril lost us.
     
  21. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    I look at it from a players perspective and a leaders perspective. Let me share a story with you and maybe that will clear the air as to why I put a single game changing play on the shoulders of GERBIL.

    My first start as a freshman in college, first game of the year. My first pass attempt, I attempted to throw a ill advised throw off balance to a slot WR on a 15 yard out. A throw I got away with dozens of times in high school due to my superior arm strength. Well the All-American senior LB picked it and jogged into the endzone. The rest of that game I performed flawless I was 22 of 30 for 301 yards 2TDs and 1int. However we lost 24-21.

    After the game leaving the locker room the local sports reporter from the small town TV station covering the game stopped me for a interview. He was very hyper and paying me lots of compliments. My only response was are you kidding me my first pass lost this football game.

    I owned up to it in the locker room, shouldered the blame and promised the team it would not happen again. Other players left for the rest of the weekend because it was labor day. I went to training room for treatment on my ankle, then to the cafeteria got my dinner togo. I hit the film room, I broke down every snap where were my feet? what was my body language? Was I telegraphing anything pre snap? I broke down every hand off, every play action, every audible. Then I went to every pass attempt, what were my feet doing? Where were they pointed? What was I doing with my hips? Where was my release? Was I starring receivers down? How was I moving in the pocket?

    Around midnight a young Assistant Coach for DBs stopped by his office to get his recruiting plans. He saw me in the film room and ask what I was doing? I told him and his response was are you nuts ROOK it was one pass? Mine was it was 1 pass that lost the game and it won't happen again! I won him over right there, he sat down and broke down everything from a DB and safeties point of view.

    More importantly when word got out of my dedication to perfection, I gained the trust and confidence of the upper classmen I was leading in the huddle!

    Moral of the story?!?! 1 play can lose a game!
     
  22. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    I really don't think the Dolphins would want to pay Dansby the big contract he wanted and made Rolle the highest paid safety in the NFL also. Rolle didn't care for whom or where he played as long as he got the big pay day. As far as Clark is concerned he just used Miami to get what he wanted from the Steelers.
     
  23. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I agree and it goes to original question...cheap or smart?? I say smart...
     
  24. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    I say lucky; if they sign Clark, he's a straight-up repeat of the Gibril Wilson mistake.

    And for the "right price," they would have, too. :rolleyes:
     
  25. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Link??....

    dude who cares if you played didnt play.....you out of all people should know it isnt one person, yes he made some terrible plays, yes Henne threw 60% of his interceptions in the 4th quarter, yes Ginn never got open or separated off any CB's, yes AA, and Crowder couldnt cover you when you were in a cast after all your injuries, yes the game clock management from Sporano was pathetic, yes Henning is better suit to run Princeton basketball than an NFL offense....I mean there are many many reasons they lost, they simply were not good enough....period....hence those guys are gone....you could literally take all the plays in all the games AA, Wilson, and Porter didn't make in all their loses and guaranteed you could say that was the reason they lost the game.....but it is foolish....they weren't good enough
     
  26. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    in it right now.....
     
  27. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    Tell that to the highest paid inside linebacker in NFL history
     
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  28. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    SMART, SMART, SMART......the more we pay the more cap problems we have and the less time these guys will have to play together. I don't want one Superbowl in Miami, I want four.

    Jimmy Johnson played it smart in Dallas. He "hoodwinked" his talent for a couple of years, got high draft picks and built a team so powerful even Barry Switzer won with it.

    You build your talent and keep your wallet fat - not buy your talent and have them stay for a year. I really like Dansby, but golly they paid through the nose!~!
     
  29. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    what the heck are you talking about? Look back at the contracts we have put out for players like Dansby, Grove, Smiley, Gibril Wilson. You could make the argument that we overpaid for all 4 of these guys (although I'd argue we only overpaid for Gibril). The fact that we're not going to waste money like Washington means we're on the right track. If the FO believes the best route to build a championship team is through the draft then we shouldn't be overpaying in a year when the free agents are above-average at best.
     
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  30. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

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    Who will be the first to turn around the Dansby deal, 'only' 22 million up front instead of the expected 30+, to claim the Dolphins are "cheap"? I will! No, j/k. :tongue2:
     
  31. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    Thanks for the long biography. Being a former player does give you a different perspective, but it doesn't mean it's the correct one. If anything, I'd say your perspective is too biased. Yes, you made one bad play and felt guilty about it. Any good athlete would feel the same way. But one bad play does not lose a game and it's extremely myopic to think so. One bad play changes the momentum in the game, but momentum can easily swing in the other direction if your defense gets off their *** and makes a play of their own.
     
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  32. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Alright you disagree and are entitled to your opinion. 1 play can change a game can cost you momentum and can lose a game. Football is a game of 11 players doing their assignments on every play. A FS is our last line of defense and from wk1 to wk17 GERBIL blew his assignment, caused big plays and lost football games.

    So are you saying Peyton Manning is wrong? After all he said his mistake, forcing the ball off balance lost the Superbowl!
     
  33. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Once again that is your opinion. Pay attention to some of the best players to play in the NFL and how they view a mistake they made. The problem with GERBIL is he made the same mistake every week, it is very obvious on film and easy to exploit.
     
  34. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    Yes, I'd say Peyton is wrong. He's a leader that's blowing his mistake out of proportion so he can heap the blame on himself and not his teammates. That's what leaders do, doesn't mean his one play lost the game. Was it a big factor? yes. Was it the only factor? No.

    Guess what? The Colts were already down 7 points when the Saints picked off Manning. The Colts were already losing the game. Manning was the only reason they even had a shot to win the game. The Colts lost the game because they allowed the Saints to score 28 points before that INT.
     
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  35. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    Gibril did not make the same mistake every week. You can point to 3-4 games. yes, he made big mistakes in those games. I don't blame Gibril. I blame our front office for bringing in two strong safeties to play our backfield which we knew going into the season was going to expose us.
     
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  36. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    I am not speaking to only the homeruns he gave up or key missed tackles. One of my hobbies is putting each Dolphins game quick take on the NFL network and then going through each game in slow motion breaking it down. GERBIL made the same mistakes weekly and that is what the Brady's, Brees etc were seeing and attempting to exploit.
     
  37. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Like I said different strokes for different folks. I view Peyton as the ultimate professional who will shoulder that blame and spend 100s of hrs to improve from it. Gerbil on the other hand is the guy you see on the sideline chewing on the rookie when it was his own breakdown. He is the guy in practice or film room who always has the excuse or blame shift. It shows in his play on the field and when it comes down to it is probably the reason he has been wacked by 3 teams in 3 yrs. The coaching staffs probably feel they can't get through to him.

    Look we are all fans we want the Dolphins to win and get better. We will never all agree on the same direction. My view tends to be from the extreme and I don't expect anyone to follow it. I wasn't sold on Parcells when we hired him so I don't cut him any breaks.
     
  38. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the Dolphins learned their Ernest Wilford, and Gibril Wilson lessons the hard way, and they're still paying for it (literally).

    You go after an FA that looks promising but does not look like an all star, pay him all star money, and watch him slack off and catch his payday, and nothing else.

    I think they made the FO a bit gunshy on people that aren't proven, young playmakers. They're done experimenting with Ross's money. I imagine there's been a meeting or two with him involved to that effect. As an owner, I can imagine the last thing you'd want is to be paying multiple millions of dollars on someone's contract that A) wasn't worth it, and B) not playing for you any more.
     
  39. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Our whole backfield took a hit for several reasons, just to blame a microscopic play here or there on Gibril is fair but not nesscearily the whole story.

    We had to start 2 rookie corners when Wil Allen went down. We had to continue to rotate in Nate Jones (who played great in his opp.) and Culver and Jason Allen routinely.

    Our linebackers are not the best in coverage, which decimates the short/medium routes up the middle.

    This year, we have a better cover guy in Dansby than say our previous LB's. He may not be the best in coverage but he is good laterally. This should be an upgrade. The fallout if successful is the safeties have less zone coverage they have to be "concerned" about.

    Our rookie corners have a full year of starting experience under their belt. We get Will Allen back. Keeping our top end corner talent more fresh and rotated which should help stamina late in games.

    Not every team you face is going to be able to burn you up the middle in the passing game. Some teams are terrible at it. The elite teams are good at it. We played several elite teams last year. Maybe Bell and Wilson felt they had too much responsibility to cover from the uncertainties of the rookies and left other areas exposed.

    Clemons got some experience but didn't shine, but wasn't terrible either.

    Our backfield would significantly improve if our LB's in the 3-4 were better in cover situations. It would allow the safeties to focus soley on the pass to help the corners and prevent the deep seam passes up the middle.

    I dont' think making Rolle the top paid safety in the league would have given us the value we would have expected for that bankroll. Sure he's a good player, not for that price tag he's not. We coudl invest that money in other areas all while helping the safety position out in other ways is the point. And the money you invest in Dansby helps tremendously in other areas as well, such as sideline to sideline tackling, run stuffing, qb pressure, inside / outside lb flexibility. I'm glad we invested the money the way they did, but then again, i truely belive what Parcells, Ireland, Sparano and Nolan understand is that just because you pay one position big, it might not be the best value for the system your running.
     
  40. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    This idea that $7.4 million per season for Antrel Rolle is overspending is patently ridiculous. Remember, each season spending for players goes up 10% at a minimum. If we accept that Ed Reed is the best safety in the game and that his contract represents what the elite should earn, then we have to project out to what he'd earn if he was on the market today. After adjusting for inflation, of course.

    2006: $7.95 million
    2007: $8.75 million
    2008: $9.62 million
    2009: $10.58 million
    2010: $11.64 million

    So, in reality Antrel Rolle, if you go by contract value, got a contract due an above average free safety and probably got low balled a bit.
     

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