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Dolphins can clear lots of cap space

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rocky Raccoon, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He needs better guard play to shine, unfortunately. There's also a lot of dopey run calls that the defense predicts before the snap almost half of the time. I feel bad for the kid.
     
  2. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I love how stating the truth makes something wrong with me, smh.
     
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  3. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    It all depends on Miller's contract demands. I would re-sign him but not at a premium. If that's the case I would try to find a "good" back next season to complement Ajayi b/c Jay has special talent.
     
  4. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    It does seem like they are clued into the calls at times. I can often predict the call too,
     
  5. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    he looked special running into the back of his teammate
     
  6. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    This is what I've been saying. Jordan Cameron is a top 5 tight end when you have a QB throwing him the ball down field. Here he is being wasted. Some games he is only getting 1 or 2 targets. Really? A guy like him is a huge mismatch against opposing linebackers. He is big in the seams and can go up and get the ball in the end zone. But Tannehill defenders will tell you he sucks and his lack of production is his fault. Even though he was a stud in Cleveland before those concussions. It's a combination of the coach not calling plays for him and Tannehill not giving him the ball. I guarantee if he leaves to another team he will star for another team like he did in Cleveland. In fact I wouldn't mind that to see what Tannehill defenders would have to say then.
     
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  7. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    I think you could put it firmly on lazor. Charles Clay under mike sherman in 2013, complete stud. Lazor comes to town, Clay looks nothing like his past self. Cameron comes here, also looks nothing like his past self.

    Lazors offense is all slants, swing passes and screens. There's no room for a big TE in his playcalls.

    The only time lazor specifically targets TEs is the redzone, and he's actually had great success. Stoneburner has 2 tds, sims 1, and cameron 1. When lazors forced to use TEs he finds success.

    The problem is lazor never learns anything. "Hmmm, lets see...Ajayi gets 44yds on 4 carries, better stop running him. TEs are mismatches in the redzone, bether not throw to them between the 20s. I haven't called a wr screen in awhile"
     
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  8. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    So? If I'm GM i'm not dumping a ton of money into the RB position, and Lamar is gonna command a pretty high pay day on the open market. Lets be realistic. Way more important holes to fill. Are the Miami Dolphins ever gonna get it that you don't win by buying players? You groom replacements.

    That is why NE never has a bad year even though they have a revolving door at most positions.
     
  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Man I wish he would call some slants!!!! Twice Matthews has had some good yards on the 2 I think they have thrown this year. normally curls or outs, but man that slant!!! and why doesn't the fast dude get slants?? I cant even think of his name cause they don't throw him the ball much.
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If anyone was "sensing" a decline in Wake's play 2 or 3 years ago, they just don't know football. Period. End of argument. No need to continue.
     
  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The best part is it is stated as fact
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I can understand entertaining the idea of letting go of Cameron Wake. I'm not going to pretend it's dumb to entertain that notion. He's old, just took a major injury, and he's due $8.4 million next year.

    But the people who are turning around and claiming it would be stupid NOT to part ways with him, claiming that it would have been worth it to trade him 3 years ago, making ludicrous claims about him starting to decline 2 or 3 years ago, those people are being ridiculous and I have absolutely no problem declaring that in a factual manner.

    Ultimately I think it's smart not to get rid of him. His workout program is second to none so you're never surprised when a guy like that recovers quickly and plays better than his age (which he's already been doing for years). His play on the field when healthy is second to very few (which we saw when he got healthy and had a season's worth of sacks in two games). While his age increases the likelihood of taking injuries (which I pointed out many times prior to the season with respect to Wake particularly) it doesn't mean you expect him to be injured at all times.

    Bottom line do you think you can take $8.4 million and do better with it than Cameron Wake?

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/defensive-end/
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/outside-linebacker/

    I'd love to hear your ideas if you think you can do better with $8.4 million. But don't come at me with some BS about William Hayes or Jason Pierre-Paul with his Simpsons hand. And don't start pretending that Von Miller is going to end up switching teams in free agency, either.

    EDIT: I'm not giving up hope on Jason Pierre-Paul as I've always been a fan of his and I would like to see how he plays the rest of the year. I'm just sayin.
     
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  13. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jordan Cameron HIMSELF said he's not getting many targets because he's been asked to stay in and block a lot more this year. Why? Because the pass protection sucks more often than not.

    Funny how you thought you were getting one up on "Tannehill defenders" by bringing up Cameron's lack of targets, yet the real reason he's not being targeted is because of the poor pass blocking. Which is the main argument for "Tannehill defenders."

    But maybe it's because Tannehill just can't light a candle to all those franchise quarterbacks Cameron had throwing him the ball in Cleveland. I'm sure that's it.
     
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  14. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Cam Wake, when healthy, is a top 3 pass rusher hands down. He far outplayed his contract up till this point.

    He's one of the few guys in the past decade that this team has had that you can point to and say that with. He has a greater positive impact than any other player on the team IMO. We're 6-3 and in a wildcard position sans any injuries to that one player.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I also think Jordan Cameron's value is being underestimated generally speaking and would like to see him utilized more. Then again, ball can only go so many places.

    Also I will grant that next year Jordan Cameron's contract becomes a problem, as $7.5 million is a hefty sum for an under-utilized tight end.
     
  16. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As much as I love Lamar Miller I'd have to agree. RB is just not important enough of a position, and as we see with Ajayi, you can find good RBs easier than a lot of positions.
     
  17. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've watched Wake's entire career in Miami and it seems to me that Wake as of the last few years has become the type of guy that will put up 2, 3 or even 4 sacks in a single game and then go quiet for 3 weeks. On average, that's 1 sack per game and it's good production for a starting DE. But, the reality is, he gives you everything at once and then leaves you desperate the following week. What bugs me is how no one criticizes him because he's in the Zach Thomas, Dan Marino, Larry Csonka club of being a franchise hero.

    Listen, I'm not anti-Wake, I just think teams are smart to trade players that only have "good" years left given all the "great" ones are gone--particularly if they can get value. You bet you *** I would've traded Wake last year or the year before if I had the chance. Of course you do that if you're interested in building a franchise that's going to win. You don't save your old players. You save (and develop) your young players. Wake is surely on decline this year as evidenced by the fact he did nothing over the first several weeks. His injury, as I'm sure you can tell, has affected my perspective very little.

    I consider "top 3" guys to be those who produce every week. Wake has not been that in awhile. His production is good, not elite if you ask me. This isn't an issue about money. It's an issue about the inconsistent play that all teams get with their aging veterans. The good games become fewer and farther between. We saw the same thing with Jason Taylor. He was traded eventually and the team got something like a 2nd round pick as I recall. In the hands of a good GM, a 2nd round pick is a great thing. If you're going to say Miami doesn't scout well or that their 2nd rounders are trash, that's fine, but that just means they're a bad team anyway in which case they'd probably do best assembling the cheapest roster they could and maximizing profit for the owner. That's not an argument that ends well.

    I'm sorry that touches a nerve with a lot of fans but I simply don't think great players can be allowed to be so inconsistent. It would help if Vernon was doing more. That's probably the bigger story if you ask me but would the Dolphins be in better shape if they'd have gotten a high pick for Wake back when he was valuable? Yeah, I think so.

    2015: 4 games without a sack (2.3 in games where he had a sack)

    That means they tended to come in groups.

    2014: 8 games without a sack (1.4 in games where he had a sack)
    2013: 10 games without a sack (1.4 in games where he had a sack)

    So yeah, I think when a guy isn't all that productive for 8-10 of the games he's playing it's reasonable to hold that inconsistency out as a detriment. Of course there are worse players, but when you look at a player who's in his prime you don't see limited production. JJ Watt only had 4 games last year without a sack. Justin Houston only had 3 games last year without a sack.

    I acknowledge those were outstanding seasons but again, the term "top-3" was thrown out there. Is Wake top-3? Absolutely not. The stats just don't show that, particularly given his decline against the rush over the last couple years.


    Again, fan favorite. I totally understand why criticism won't be welcomed but hey, you're going to get it. A lot of people were talking trade of 2-3 years ago because they were anticipating the decline coming on and quite frankly they were right. You have a guy who just put up 15 sacks and who you HIGHLY SUSPECT (due to predictable things like age) will be less productive over the next few years...

    ...you trade that guy while value is high!!!!!!

    There were a lot of people quite excited about the notion of getting something for Wake back when he had value.
     
  18. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Top-3?

    I kind of feel like maybe you made that up. If I take a quick look at sacks, it doesn't appear that Wake has been a leader for a few years. You'd have to go back to 2010-2012 to see the kind of production I think your memory is putting out there.

    It's alright, players do decline. In general, Wake ranks about 15th in sacks. Sacks aren't everything but it gives you an idea. So if you asked me, I wouldn't say Wake is a "top-3" pass rusher when healthy. He's merely one of the top 15 or 20 guys the league currently features.

    2014: Wake ranked 11th in sacks
    2013: Wake ranked 29th in sacks
    2012: Wake ranked 4th in sacks
    2011: Wake ranked 26th in sacks
    2010: Wake ranked 3rd in sacks
     
  19. Zounds

    Zounds New Member

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    Cam Wake has never let me down at a player or a contract. He has earned 100% of his pay every year he has played for us. Cam Wake is probably the best move this team has made in the last decade. No idea why people think he should have been traded years ago. The NFL is about acquiring talent, not draft picks and cap space.
     
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  20. Zounds

    Zounds New Member

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    Not really understanding Barry Jackson's logic when reducing Suh and Tannehill's cap hit from $40.2M to $15.1M. Both of these players could be on he bubble in 2 or 3 years, and kicking the can down the road with salary conversion tricks just makes is harder to cut them later if needed.

    Also, Grimes may be expensive and he has fallen off a bit this year, but he's our only decent corner on the roster, and CB is a premium position. We cold save $6.5M by cutting him, but it will likely cost at least that much to replace him with another starting caliber CB via free agency.
     
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  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I get your point but you do need to include pressures in your evaluation too.
     
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  22. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Of course it's my opinion, but I'd like to see the number of pressures/qb hits/sacks per snap. I think that would give a clearer picture. I'd venture to guess he'd be among the top 5 or so.
     
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  23. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I would split in between both of yours and Eop's opinions and say he's around 7th, because you can't just single up years and look at it only like that because sacks are an up and down thing for most players, consistency through the years is just as important, and since 2009 when he first came into the league he is 3rd in sacks, but as you point out he's never led the league, and also he is playing the right side against lesser talent.

    As far as trading him earlier, I would say that I'm biased because he's been my favorite player, but to your case, the draft picks may have been the smart move towards building a better team, however, those picks would not probably have done much with Ireland, and Hickey is still trying to prove his worth so having Wake has been a bright spot in just the simple rooting for the team, not to mention on the field.

    So I'm not sure either way would have been more productive, but I'm glad he's been on the team, but I understand your point of view as well.
     

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