So we shouldn't make waiver claims unless it is a Sanders type of player? Is anyone reacting like Patterson is anywhere close to a Sanders in his prime? Patterson was a good move. He upgrades the roster now, and likely next season.
He started in the playoffs and Super Bowl game that season. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198701250den.htm
so we basically got marshall ,patterson,wilson who all play the slot receiver who stays,who gets cut? and we have no boundary corner signed for next year [only carroll !] i personally would re sign smith and draft 2 corners 1 in 1st or 2nd rnd and 1 in 4 or 5th rnd move marshall 2 free safety [where he belongs] and have patterson at slot corner so our secondary will look like this next year smith draft pick marshall jones starters ,and patterson slot #3 corner wilson carroll draft pick 4th or 5th rnd and the guy who is on ir at mo!! or clemons as a back up safety as the reserves i have no confidence in the gm and coaches thinking like that it seems not much effort or spending in offseason to gain alot!! and i am 100% confident the group above would be better suited than this years group
I think they may just cut Richard Marshall especially if Dimitri Patterson plays well the next two games and keeps his mouth shut. They have to be disappointed with the way Marshall played and then got hurt. They may view Marshall as an option at free safety but I tend to doubt.
He only played in 4 games and although he wasn't great, he wasn't terrible either. The injury wasn't his fault and I don't think it would be expected to linger into next season.
Richard Marshall allowed 61% completion with 9 yards per attempt and 2 TDs in 4 games and only 151 coverage snaps. But just as importantly he was flagged 4 times which directly contributed 2 more TDs. Twice he was flagged for pass interference leading to 1st & Goal from the 1 yard line, which probably (guestimating) has about a 90-95% chance of leading to a touchdown. He was flagged for holding on the play that lost the Dolphins the game against the Jets in overtime, however it should be noted that even illegally holding the guy he still allowed the 38 yard completion. Considering he only played four games, that's quite a bit of calamity. He should never have been starting on the perimeter.
You are very likely right, but considering the investment made in him, I think we should give him another season to prove his worth. As bad as he was, I did not see any improvement on the boundary with Nolan Carroll. We had a pretty good boundary corner a couple years ago. Fella name of Davis. Whatever happened to him?
You also didn't see much if any drop-off from Richard Marshall to Nolan Carroll/R.J. Stanford. That says a lot.
Which is what I suspect will happen, CClemons will walk and Marshall will move to Safety Patterson has a two game tryout at Cb for 2013.
The truth is that we really haven't seen much if any dropoff in our pass defense from 2011 with Vontae to 2012 with Marshall/Carroll/Stanford.
And considering how much significantly better Sean Smith and Reshad Jones are playing compared with 2011, I find that telling in itself. The secondary and pass defense should be better than a year ago, but instead it's about the same. About the same passer rating, about the same yards per game, about the same yards per attempt, etc. Despite Reshad Jones going from a negative player in 2011 to a guy most people here think it obvious should be in the Pro Bowl. Despite Sean Smith playing significantly better this year than a year ago.
I don't know that it really works that way. Roles and responsibilities change, etc. We lost not only Vontae, but also Bell and WAllen. Obviously, we've had a change in DC too, which could be affecting things either way.
I think that is revisionist history. Davis did better in 2011 according to PFF than any Dolphins corner is doing this season, including Sean Smith.
Smith had his worst season in 2011, but 2012 is his 2nd worst season of his 4 in the league. Right now, his PFF rating is worse than Carroll's.
I don't agree with that. I think if you watch the games, he's having the best season he's ever had as a pro. He's had more responsibility placed on him and been put in more difficult coverage situations than ever before, by a significant margin.
Not revisionist history, just truth. The pass defense overall is almost identical to last year's, except both fewer TDs allowed and fewer INTs. Davis probably was better in 2011 than any of the corners have been doing this season. But according to PFF's coverage stats, he's doing appreciably worse this year than any of the Dolphins corners. On PFF's subjective grades, Vontae has been a little worse than Nolan Carroll and just a tiny little bit better than Marshall (and just about exactly the same as the "blended" score of the two of them).
Good of you to argue against your own point with respect to there not being a drop-off in the pass defense with Vontae Davis gone. Your argumentative nature makes it pretty easy to manipulate you into arguing against things that you just said. It's like you can't help yourself.
I'm pretty sure everyone here watches the games. I think Smith was much better in 2010 than he has been this year. PFF watches the games too and they agree.
I'm not arguing against my own point. The pass defense this year has been as good as it was last year. You acknowledged that yourself. I'm just saying that there is no a single variable that has changed. There are many.
Which is what I was saying and seems to me to contradict your previous post. Davis and Carroll both have a 0.4 coverage rating right now, and Smith has a 0.3. Marshall had a 2.0 coverage rating, but his -3.4 penalty rating is still tied for 7th worst in the league in only 241 snaps. Too small a sample size with Marshall though to really take too much from either rating.
He was benched in camp, not due to poor play in games. Jason Allen started the first 8 games. But when Smith played, he played well. I know that you know that.
That doesn't contradict my previous post at all. My post simply noted that the Dolphins pass defense hasn't dropped off overall from last year to this year. What do you see as contradictory? The Marshall sample is pretty small on its own, but when combined with the larger Carroll sample they apparently have been no worse than Vontae this year. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that the FO probably felt the dropoff wouldn't be very big (if a dropoff at all) and if they could get a couple of draft picks on top of the same level of play for less money, the trade made sense and was worth doing.
First you said: The truth is that we really haven't seen much if any dropoff in our pass defense from 2011 with Vontae to 2012 with Marshall/Carroll/Stanford. Then you said: Davis probably was better in 2011 than any of the corners have been doing this season. That seems contradictory to me.
It's not. The first statement is about the pass defense as a whole. The second statement is about just comparing 2011 Vontae to 2012 Marshall/Carroll/Stanford, without taking into account the rest of the pass defense.
For half a season. While being given far less responsibility than he's given on a week to week basis right now. So if you're saying you know that I really do believe Sean Smith was better in 2010, you're wrong. I make an argument because I actually believe it. I believe Sean Smith has been better this year than 2010, better than he's ever been before.
In 2011, Davis was playing pass defense better than any of our corners are doing this season, but there is no pass defense drop off from Davis in 2011 to Marshall, Carroll or Stanford in 2012? You may have meant it as a whole, but you singled out a Davis vs Marshall/Carroll/Stanford comparison.
It's pretty clear. This is where argumentativeness can get you into trouble. Can end up setting up on both sides of the same debate.
I wasn't saying you really believe Smith was better in 2010. I was saying that you know that he wasn't benched for poor play in games and that Allen was the starter from Game 1. In 2010, Smith started half a season but played a pretty healthy 765 snaps that year. The statement about "far less responsibility" is nonsense.
My point has remained constant since August. The DB corps this season would have been stronger had we kept Davis. I see a lot of folks, especially the pro Ireland contingent, defend the Davis trade by saying we are just as well off without him. I do not agree. Now, we may end up spending those picks on players who become much better than Davis. That would be great, for 2013 and beyond. But, the trade weakened the roster for 2012 and, IMO, there is just no other way to paint it.
I meant it as a whole and I said it as a whole. The dropoff referred to is in "our pass defense." The specific CBs were listed as a reference point/reminder of the change at CB. Just as if I were to say "Chad Henne was no better in 2010 with Brandon Marshall than he was in 2009 with Greg Camarillo" I would not be saying that Greg Camarillo is as good as Brandon Marshall, I'd be saying that Chad Henne was no better in 2010 than he was in 2009 and using the receivers to point out that the receivers didn't have much effect on Henne's play from one year to the next.
We also had a change at Safety. Maybe that is the reason as much as any other single thing. Do you or do you not agree that our DB corps would have been better in 2012 had we not traded Davis? PFF rated our pass defense in 2011 as the worst in the league. Davis was the only DB with a positive coverage rating. This season every DB but Stanford and Wilson have positive ratings. If one were to substitute Davis for either one, we could have very likely been even better. That was something I believed in August too. Trading Davis and replacing him in the CB group with Stanford was a severe downgrade in overall talent.
