Dolphins offensive line selections in context

I broke this down in depth last year using every starter on every team, and the findings were the same--- that Miami is pretty close to average and in the median when it comes to using high picks on Oline.

 

My thought process of drafting OL high, even high in the first round, was changed when FA came about. Even guards demand outrageous salaries when they hit FA so you cant depend on filling an OL guard spot that way and stay in good shape fiscally. You can every now and then, but not as a rule. Draft the best you can get when you can get them and resign them early if they turn out good.

 

Hah!

Why the artificial 5 yrs limit?

As the article points out, 3 teams have won SB's in those 5 yrs with poor OL's, even with taking some "in the first 3 rds" if anything it merely points out that you don't have to take a OL with a high draft choice as later picks and Fa's can equally suck and you can still win.

Now for fun, those teams with bad OL's probably had All Pro's at skill positions that produce Tds, which win football games.

And by valuing a #1-#3 draft pick on OL's as much as a #4-#7 pick, they basically are saying all draft choices are equal, which is also a fallacy. A third fallacy is not including the snaps those high pick OL's played in that times span, or even 2012, they do point out "10 of 12 teams who blah blah" but by counting late rd picks the same as #1 picks, they pretty much are talking to the air.

Playmakers win football games anymore Dpate, not "it starts upfront", hopefully Ireland gets the memo or we will stay in the dirt with other teams like KC and the Browns and Bills who have all spent high picks on OLmen yet have horrible records over that time span.

 

Look at the Colts, they did not draft many OL's with high picks, but with Manning they did not have to as the ball came out of his hand that quickly.

And they won a lot of games, I'd personally like to see a matrix of high draft pick OL's matched to winning percentages over even a 3 yrs span, the reality is if you can find a player who scores 8 Td's in rd #1 or #2, and a G in rd #5, that is how you remain competitive.

 

From what I recall, NYG won their two super bowls with a scrub at LT (David Diehl). At least the first one (haven't tracked whether they moved him before the 2nd Super Bowl).

David Diehl moved over from right guard that first super bowl season. He NEVER started at LT before.

You guys all know about the Steeler's line.

I see the offensive line as something you address when you have something worth protecting.

 

If I could give you a second fist bump, I would.

 

You both are missing the point.

DPate was simply illustrating that the perception that Dolphins draft more oline than anyone else is false. You guys are making it about something else.

 

And their leading WR was drafted when?

 

Which is missing my point, namely drafting OL with high picks w/o having playmakers is a path to mediocrity

Consider this, we had Donald Thomas, and waived him for whatever reason, now there is a legitimate case to be made for drafting a G at #12, meanwhile Thomas was PFF's second rated guard in 2013, Thomas was what a 6th rd pick?

Toss Odrick into the mix as well, quite simply the days of using a high pick on a player who is just a good all around player but does nothing particularly well are quaint, but no longer how you build a SB winning team.

 

And could have gotten the same crappy performance from late rd and street FA picks?

That team? The one that had already used #1 picks on Te/Qb/S and found their Wr?

Ravens won the SB with Bryant McKinnie at LT, gosh, but he was not a #1 overall pick, how did that happen?

 

I hope this doesnt mean that we draft another olineman in rd again . i saw in the mock drafts that have miami drafting olinemen in the first two rounds . which is a halmark of the miami dolphins

 

No one is missing your point. We all know your point on oline and playmakers. You are arguing with the OP over a point he didn't make.

 

Well that, and sub .500 records.

how about a 4th rd pick starts? Is that asking Ireland to walk on the sun?

 

The fact the OP's article cherry picked information, then contradicts his own information about successful teams having poor offensive lines and winning SB's, w/o mentioning the other fact those teams had previously spent high picks on playmaking positions, or found them via other means, is the point to me.

 

in what world does 1st round lineman get mixed in with 3 round and below this is a pointless chart obviously every team is going to draft the same amount of lineman to fill there roster over the years. Its where you draft them that matter 1 15 42 these 3 picks avg out to an avg selection of top 19 in the draft show me how many teams have used 3 picks on online in the past 5 years at that avg.

 

yes but you're only including the last 5 years after they spent how much time stockpiling offensive talent? The point isn't that the Dolphins spent resources on the O-line. IT's that they keep spending resources on the oline at the expense of other positions, can't get it right, and still needs to spend resources on the O-line while still not having any explosive playmakers.

They won their first superbowl with nary that many first round olinemen.

They won their second superbowl with Ben Roethlisberger running for his life.

http://www.steelerfury.com/content/steelers-all-time-draft-picks

Steeler draft picks. How many resources leading up to SB #1. And then SB #2? Only 2002 Kendal Simmons leading up to Superbowl #1.

 

There's no end of irony that McKinnie was lambasted in certain quarters, and yet he's a street FA acquisition that protected a Super Bowl MVP and now has a championship ring.

 

are you buttering me up for another 1st round lineman pick ? is that what this is ?

I kid, but is someone who should be available @ 12 that much better than any other option? Because this is something the GM will try to avoid.

 

The chart shows me there is some other more important determinant of success than OL picks, since successful teams range all over the map for top three round OL picks, from 1 to 4.

 

Try to focus.

The OP addressed two different arguments with this thread:

1. The Dolphins under Ireland have picked an inordinate amount of oline in the Top 3 rounds in the draft. This proves that to be false.
2. The way to win in this league is to not pick oline in the Top 3 rounds of the draft. This is also proven false.

You seem to be focused on other arguments, not made in this thread. I cannot be more clear.

 

I'm not arguing for drafting lineman in the first round to win a championship, but it can be argued that Baltimore's dominant offensive line neutralized the best defense in the NFL in the superbowl and helped them win the championship. Now, ideally, you would love to build a dominant offensive line with lower round draft picks, but it rarely happens.

 

As far as I can tell, the only #1 pick, by the Ravens on their OL was Oher

Birk/McKinnie/Williams, all FA's

 

Look, Phins had 4 first round picks on Oline in 2011, Colombo, Carey, Pouncey, Long. For naught.

 

not sure the crippled 33 year old Colombo really counts

 

Of course it is a team game, but I would say "Quarterbacks" much more so than playmakers win Super Bowls.

 

I would say Ben Roethlisberger is kind of involved in their offense.

No?

After Super Bowl 1, they grabbed someone by the name of Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Rashard Mendenhall, etc. etc.

Steelers high OT picks have been concentrated the past few years only.

You see, it's not that we drafted Jake Long, Pouncey, etc. It's that we drafted them before securing a QB, WR, TE, RB.

 

Ah, 2010, Sparano's presser:

"You are not going to score a lot of Td's crawling down the field"

Fast forward to 2012..we are still crawling down the field, this after taking 2 lineman and 1 Qb in the first rds of those three drafts.

If you want to reap a reward of Td's, you have to invest premium resources into the positions that handle the football, not the guys who don't score Td's. IE, Pouncey over Gates? Egnew not panning out? It is no small wonder that we have such a weak *** offense for years now.

 

Bringing in Eric Steinbach and mark Columbo really worries me about Ireland's ability to identify good Olineman..letting Donald Thomas go continues the worry, drafting Jon Martin confirms the worry..lol

 

Get a guy like Jennings and maybe a Keller or Cook type at TE and there will be much less noise, if any at all, when we take a LT or Chance Warmack

That's what addressing monstrous holes at QB WR and TE will do.

 

No one said you need a 1st overall pick at LT to win a Super Bowl. You're just creating your own argument to argue against. McKinnie however did enter the league originally as a top ten 1st rounder. The Ravens had 2 first rounders, a 2nd and a 3rd on their offensive line. The year before they had even one more 1st rounder in Grubbs. The Ravens obviously know the value of O-linemen.

The 49ers have three 1st rounders on their OL. Apparently they value the OL too.

 

That concerns me too. He signed Colombo rather than McKinnie because the latter was too heavy they thought. He signs with the Ravens and played very well ever since. Rather than sign Jake Scott for guard competition, he signs Artis Hicks and Eric Steinbach. Another error in evaluation and judgement. Philbin's background is OL, so hopefully Ireland can lean on him a little when it comes to choosing future OLinemen.

 

The yr before doesn't really count C.

And do notice, they did not draft McKinnie et al, and keep in mind, they signed Matt Birk, we signed Jake Grove, that did not work out so well for us, but to compound the error we then drafted Pouncey.

Who is a good player, don't misunderstand, however it also means adding skilled players to the offense was in the "R" position as they had to overpay to make up for yet another misevaluation.

Compounding errors appears to be a theme in Davie.

 

I don't have a problem using high picks on OL...if they're good players. problem is unless Jeffy is using his 1st pick on one, he can't draft any good ones.

 

hah! still had nothing to do with the topic of the thread, this is how you got a lot of your 80.000+ posts in just writing something that has nothing to do with the original topic, put in these annoying little nicknames you give everyone over here or even our players, mix in these even more annoying "hah, eh" words you start a response with....so annoying to read

 

The year before doesn't count because it does not support your argument. The Ravens use a lot of picks in the first 3 rounds on OL, whether you like it or not. Grubbs and Yanda, 2007, Oher, 2009, Reid 2011, Osmele 2012.
As you noted yourself they also signed a center to a large UFA contract in 2009.
They understand that Ray Rice isn't running anywhere and Flacco isn't picking apart defenses without some talented big uglies to block for them.

So, drafting one of the top 3 centers in the league was an error? Now, I've heard everything.