1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Dolphins Plans for QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 25, 2019.

What Should the Dolphins do at QB?

  1. Ditch RT17 - Draft High this year - QB answer is?

    13 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Ditch RT17 - Aim for 2020 - QB answer is?

    21 vote(s)
    30.9%
  3. Ditch RT17 - Aim for 2021 - QB answer is?

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  4. Ditch RT17 - Draft first round QB every year until you find one.

    6 vote(s)
    8.8%
  5. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Aim for 2020 - QB answer is?

    9 vote(s)
    13.2%
  6. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Draft High this year - QB answer is?

    7 vote(s)
    10.3%
  7. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Aim for 2021- QB answer is?

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  8. Keep RT17 for 2019 - Draft first round QB until you find one?

    7 vote(s)
    10.3%
  9. Keep RT17 and give him another shot - Draft low 2019, high only if doesn't work out.

    1 vote(s)
    1.5%
  1. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

    1,448
    1,382
    113
    May 5, 2016
    It's rumored Tannehill might end up at the Redskins. If so, I think he will do well because Jay Gruden is a heck of a coach. Gruden was a QB, and the Orlando Predators kicked *** when he was their coach. IMO, he is one of those guys who gets it and can help his QB's play at a higher level than they would elsewhere.
     
  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,149
    7,183
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Oh, I think Tannehill will end up starting somewhere. I just don't think it's realistic to expect any team to give up much. I mean if they just wait we're probably cutting him.
     
    Dorfdad and Irishman like this.
  3. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    3,123
    1,604
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Nfl network just had a piece on trading Ryan to New York Giants for Eli Manning and a day 2 pick.

    Said that Miami is going to be looking for a pocket passer (New England mindset) to bring along a new young QB for a year or two during rebuild.

    Not sure how I fee about that, he’s older for sure but we do have some good side receiever talent and a good TE if used.

    Not sure what it would cost but if we don’t get one of the top 3 QB’s in the draft and we are clearly moving on from tannehill than maybe this makes sense?
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

    22,501
    22,402
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    Trading RT to the Giants for a mid round pick? Yes.

    Trading for Eli? Hell no. What would be the logical point of that?
     
    resnor and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  5. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

    145
    123
    43
    Sep 1, 2012
    So their idea is that we trade Ryan Tannehill and receive Eli Manning and a day two pick?

    If I was a Giants fan I'd be upset with that deal. I could understand a straight swap, they want to get younger at the quarterback position and are willing to take a risk on Tannehill; and for us, we acquire a veteran bridge quarterback while a young quarterback develops behind him. I could even go along with a pick swap somewhere in there, let's say a swap of second round picks, we get 37 and they get 48. But I don't see Tannehill having the value to get a quarterback like Eli Manning and a day two pick as well.

    Would I take this deal if it was put on the table?

    Yes. Eli Manning was the least of the Giants problems last season. In fact his stats are respectable: 4299 yards (4th highest of his career), 21 TDs, 11 INTs (2nd lowest in seasons he's started 16 games), 66 PCT (career high), and a 92.4 QB rating (4th highest of his career). The guy still has enough left in the tank for a season or two, and as a bridge quarterback he would be more than acceptable. We could even potentially compete for a wild card spot with a quarterback like Eli if he's backed up with a good defense. So for us it makes a lot of sense to do this deal and get a pick in return, but I don't see how this deal works out favourably for the Giants because Tannehill is not an upgrade or long term solution.
     
    Hooligan likes this.
  6. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

    145
    123
    43
    Sep 1, 2012
    There are two ways to deal with a rookie quarterback:

    1. You throw them into the deep end and see if they can swim.

    2. You sit them on the bench for a year or more while they develop and start a bridge quarterback.

    If we chose to follow the second option like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, then we need a veteran quarterback to start for us. Ryan Tannehill could be that guy for a year, or we could go out and sign Ryan Fitzpatrick and he could start for a year. Essentially we would just need a solid veteran that can play 16 games and isn't going to stink up the joint sufficiently to force the rookie into starting before they are ready. Think about the Jaguars, they tried to keep Bortles on the bench as a rookie but Chad Henne struggled. So while Eli is not the greatest quarterback in the league, his numbers last season were respectable, and he is good enough to hold onto the starting position for a full slate of games before handing it over to the drafted quarterback.

    Now obviously if you are on the tank for Tua bandwagon, then we shouldn't draft a quarterback this year or sign a veteran quarterback. We should chuck one of our inexperienced quarterbacks into the role and help this team lose as many games, if not all our games, to ensure we get the first overall pick. However, Tua is not worth tanking for. Nor can I see Brian Flores and co being on board for a full scale tank. I suspect we will want to compete and win games next season, not win now, but be competitive. As such we'll either have to pick up a veteran, draft someone this year, or spend whatever it takes to move up next year.
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,613
    7,361
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    If he walked completely, I'd have mass respect for him; I don't understand why more athletes don't walk away. He has a beautiful wife, a few healthy kids and plenty of money....there's really no reason not to walk away except for his pride. So unless he could ink a deal with a contender with a solid chance of starting, the right move would be to call it quits.

    I would imagine it's incredibly hard to walk away at 30 but it's definitely the smart move.
     
    Irishman, resnor and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,613
    7,361
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I'd take that deal for one more additional reason as well- you have a rookie being groomed by two Manning brothers (since Peyton would obviously be in the building from time to time). It's a great situation to be in honestly....a complete win/win.
     
  9. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

    145
    123
    43
    Sep 1, 2012
    You are a long time retired. Sure he could go into a media role or find a different line of work, but ten or twenty years from now he might regret his decision to walk away rather than fight for a spot somewhere else and he would not be able to return to the field to right that wrong at 40 to 50 years old. Ok he doesn't need the money. Nor does he need to risk any further damage to his body. But that's generally not the way these guys are wired because they want to play the game, and while some might doubt Tannehill's chances of making it elsewhere, I doubt he feels the same way. I think he will believe he can have success on another team if given the chance.

    The only time I could see someone walking away is if they have been given a warning by their doctor that they should retire for health reasons. For example, another hit and you could end up in a wheelchair. At that point is is a no brainer to retire and walk away while you can still live a good quality of life. But in Tannehill's case he is still healthy and able to produce, so I don't see walking away as a legitimate choice for Tannehill. He will go elsewhere and try and compete, and then maybe move on from playing if that fails.

    With that said, he could go on to have a cushy life as a backup quarterback. Look at Matt Moore. He spent six seasons with us as a backup and was well paid. I think a lot of teams would happily take someone like Tannehill as their backup if he was willing to take such a role. Granted teams don't tend to keep the same backup around as long as we did, but if he loves football that much that he can't quit, there are good paydays available for being a top backup quarterback.
     
  10. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

    6,606
    2,332
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Oh yeah Gruden did a great job as QB of the Predators and during NFL season I'm pretty sure he was the QB coach of the Bucs under his brother Jon.

    We shall see if he can get anything out of Thill.
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  11. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    3,123
    1,604
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    No we give up a second day pick and Ryan for Eli. Also we need to give up on the idea of tank for tua it’s not going to happen. We would have to be 1-15 or 2-14 at max to be in that drawing. If we we’re so sure we got the right coaching staff in place and so far I like what I’m seeing than there is no way we can lose that many games with the talent we have in the field. Without knowing schedule etc I’m betting we win at least 6-8 games this year
     
    Brasfin likes this.
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,613
    7,361
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    I mean, there's always two sides. On one hand, players want to compete and prove themselves. But on the other, they dread training camp and the long season, playing hurt, etc. During the season it's easy to think about retirement. During the off-season it's easy to think about playing.

    Not to take anything away from Tannehill, but we've seen moments in recent years where he's playing scared. My guess is that he has a hearing problem or something like that where he just can't sense the pressure, and its the reason he takes so many hits that seemingly should be avoided. And in those situations, you can literally see him panic for a 1/2 second as he's thrown to the ground....that has to be in the back of his mind at all times. He said towards the end of last season that he wants to end his career as a Dolphin and I can't help but wonder if there wasn't more to that....maybe he was hinting at hanging it up if Miami releases him.

    I'm not saying it would be easy for him, but I do think there's a part of his brain that's tired of getting hit. Last year was his worst ever in the pressure/sack category and I just wouldn't be shocked if he's done.
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  13. Mike8272

    Mike8272 Active Member

    145
    123
    43
    Sep 1, 2012
    That makes more sense! In that case, I would not be looking to give up a day two pick for Eli Manning. I would rather draft someone and sign a bridge quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, or give Nick Foles a shot at starting for us.

    Agreed, I am not on the tank for Tua bandwagon. I have consistently said (here and on the other place) that tanking creates the wrong culture and comes with no guarantees. I would rather the team build while remaining competitive. Plenty of teams do it. You just have to be smart in the draft and with trades and free agents. I think this off season has shown great promise with our new head coach and the changes made to the front office. So I don't see us tanking, and I think 6 to 8 wins is a realistic total.

    As much as I'd like to say I wouldn't flinch at the sight of some of the defensive players heading my way, I can totally understand why Tannehill has that "oh ****!" moment as he notices someone like JJ Watt get past his blocker and heading right for him. That moment is going to be at the back of the mind of any quarterback or anyone else for that matter. The receiver going up for the catch over the middle could get nailed. It's part of football. The moment that enters the front of your mind is the time to call it day.
     
    Dorfdad likes this.
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,613
    7,361
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Honestly, I think it entered his mind after his injury in 2016- you can see time and time again where he'd close his eyes and brace for impact just a split second before getting leveled. And hey, I'm definitely not knocking the guy for it...like you said, it takes ice water in the veins to stand in the pocket with some of these pros rearing down on you. Add in that he didn't even see half the hits coming and it's completely understandable why he might question his future.
     
    Surfs Up 99, Dorfdad and resnor like this.
  15. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    1,950
    1,482
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    This is going to be full rebuild for a few years. I think this has been made pretty clear. So just draft a QB and start him right away. Most likely you will see a veteran brought in, go 0-3 and have the rookie jump in game 4.
     
  16. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

    262
    155
    43
    Sep 11, 2016
    The thing that I think a lot of people forget when it comes to tanking is the players that we already have. I mean rookie contracts only last so long and you really think the likes of Minkah are going to be happy with the franchise if they purposely spend at least one yeah of his time here purposely trying to lose?
     
    Dorfdad likes this.
  17. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    1,950
    1,482
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    It's not purposely trying to lose. They just don't have a good team right now and a new regime has come in to develop an identity. Ross himself has said that a 2-4 win season this year is very possible and may be beneficial to this franchise going forward. You're going to see guys like Stills, Jones and possibly Howard get traded. They will bring in stop gap veterans to plug in but nobody really worth a damn.

    This is what the fanbase wanted and they're going to get it.
     
    resnor likes this.
  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

    1,448
    1,382
    113
    May 5, 2016
    I don't have a problem with it as long as they have a legitimate plan. Sometimes, reinventing yourself can really pay off and I hope this is the case for us. IMO, the issue is will they stick with the plan or will it crumble because the wins aren't coming fast enough. Communication is the key. If we can keep everyone rowing in the same direction, we have a chance.
     
    Irishman, Dorfdad and KeyFin like this.
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    5,613
    7,361
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Personally, I just want t escape this 3 year cycle of starting over again and again. For instance, Tannehill ran three different offenses over six years (he was out the 7th)...how much better would we have been as a team if we ran one offense for six years? One thing people overlook in NE is consistency; they stick to the plan and it makes it easier for everyone to execute because they've been doing it for so long. We desperately need that in Miami.

    Personally, I don't care what our record is next season or the year after that. We just need to build consistency and you can't do that on a three year cycle.
     
    greyeagl53, Irishman, resnor and 3 others like this.
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    94,377
    46,668
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I think our new head coach doesn’t even consider anything that has to do with losing, doesn’t register..he gameplans to win..
     
  21. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    1,950
    1,482
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    But, he's also realistic that they're not going to be doing that anytime soon.

    “I would say that every week, we’re going to go out there with the idea that we’re going to win a game. There’s going to be pain involved in that, too. There’s definitely bumps in the road. There’s no doubt about that. In this game, there’s ups, there’s downs. That’s part of this game. That’s part of leadership, dealing with adversity. There will be some pain. We know that."

    - Brian Flores
     
    resnor likes this.
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,149
    7,183
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yeah, this is so overlooked on how Tannehill developed. Three different offenses to learn, with different expectations from each coach. It was an awful situation that I don't think most fans truly understood how damaging it was to his overall development.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    94,377
    46,668
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    what I mean is, this whole staff right now is not thinking about what's gonna happen next year, so I think if they identify a rookie QB that they wanna build around then they will go after him, if they don't, and he's in the draft next year, then I think they will roll with what's on the roster, trade players they don't want for assets, and try their best to win every game, now whatever happens record wise they will live with..
     
  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    1,950
    1,482
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Of course they're going to try to win. They tried last year and got embarrassed by two terrible teams at the end of the year. The talent and drive isn't there. Any talented player they do have right now I would say is on the trade block (Stills, Wilson, Howard, Jones, Drake).

    All indication from ownership and the head coach is they know what's coming this year. Bad football. Yes, they will try but it's going to be ugly. I mean the quote I posted from Flores "we're going to go into games with the idea of winning" says it all.
     
    Irishman and djphinfan like this.
  25. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    772
    743
    93
    Sep 12, 2015
    They would be complete idiots to trade young talent in hopes of eventually acquiring young talent.
     
    Miamiforlife and Fin D like this.
  26. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    1,950
    1,482
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    New York
    Young talent that will demand huge contracts in a year when they obviously have no interest in winning any time soon.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,149
    7,183
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    But then you'll run into the same problem. You'll dump your young talent. You'll develop new talent over a couple seasons, but your team will have sucked for three more years. Now your young talent is looking at new contracts that are going to be more expensive. Do you dump them again and start over? If not, why? Isn't it the same thing as dumping your talent now?

    You pay your talent, whether you suck or not, because you've got to keep the talent you have and build around it. You don't just dump your talent because it's time for a bigger contract.
     
  28. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

    1,448
    1,382
    113
    May 5, 2016
    The Dolphins need to do a lessoned learned on the Tannehill situation so they can learn from it. I am not excusing his short comings, but I think he could have developed a lot more than he did. The Dolphins probably didn't understand how they could have helped him more or they didn't have the time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
    Irishman and Fin D like this.
  29. DadeCounty33054

    DadeCounty33054 New Member

    2
    4
    3
    Feb 23, 2019
    Tannehill is GARBAGE; he should have never been drafted. A thing of the past. I believe management should roll the dice with the backup QB's currently on the team. Build the defense. Articles; I've read, we have serious issues on the D-Line. I don't believe Harris will make the cut, which lies an issue with a player being replaced. Too many studs on the defensive side of the ball to pass up for a QB. I hope management remain true to form and NOT listen to ALL the pundits; regarding selecting a QB this up coming draft.
     
    Irishman and djphinfan like this.
  30. DadeCounty33054

    DadeCounty33054 New Member

    2
    4
    3
    Feb 23, 2019
    Please do NOT give Gruden too much credit. He's average at best. Tannehill is a "washed up dish rag" QB. He was never on anyone's draft board; expect the Phins. Let's speak truthfully. I agree an O-line is required for overall offensive success. What I've notice over the years is; the Phins don't have enough quality depth. I hope the new regime will focus; not only on top tier talent, overall team depth also. We're treading in the RIGHT direction under Grier-Flores. I encourage ALL fans to: Keep the Faith!!! Famous words of Sam Cooke; "change is gonna come."
     
    texanphinatic and djphinfan like this.
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    94,377
    46,668
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Harsh words but I think fairly accurate..

    I don’t think he is garbage but I don’t think he was an average QB.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  32. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

    197
    133
    43
    Jan 13, 2014
    We currently have five QB's on our roster including IR and practice squad. Falk appears to be injured but I haven't read anything about him that would lead me to believe he is in our future plans. Rudock seems to be in the same spot as Falk just a camp body or practice squad player. We all know about RT and Osweiler I think they will both be gone. Could we go into 2019 with Fales as the starter? There is no one available that would strike me as someone to trade for. I think we have to pick a QB with the thirteenth selection no matter who it is. It is going to be interesting.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  33. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,020
    2,844
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    The numbers say he’s been slightly above average.
     
    Ducken and Irishman like this.
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    94,377
    46,668
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Really?? Are you taking passer rating over his career?
     
  35. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    2,307
    1,084
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    I'm okay if they want to swing for the fences with Murray in the draft. Otherwise, try and find a gem among some younger QBs. I've watched some of the AAF (Alliance of American Football) the past couple weeks and at least one QB is worth bringing into training camp: Luis Perez.

    He has good size at 6' 3" and 218 and even with a lower level of competition being the starter for the Birmingham Iron is good experience. He doesn't seem to have a really strong arm, but has accuracy and touch. A good enough arm for the NFL, accuracy, and intelligence would be a nice mix at QB. Oh, and he learned the basics of being a QB by watching YouTube (for those of us who weren't feeling old enough today). :)

    I'm sure there will be a couple other NFL teams taking a look at Perez, but Miami can offer a real shot at a starting spot (if they don't draft a QB in the first round).

    TLDR: Draft Murray or try starting the best of several young QBs and hope you find a hidden gem. Worst case, you get a very high draft pick in 2020 and grab a QB then.
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    6,912
    7,654
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Yeah, numbers wise Tannehill is almost exactly average over his career (actually a tad below after including 2018).

    Not sure people are used to adjusting to 2018 numbers where you had a record high league average passer rating of 92.9, but weighted by passing attempts Tannehill's 2018-adjusted career passer rating is 91.32. A bit more accurate is his career weighted z-score rating (which takes into account standard deviation in passer rating) of -0.1166 where zero is league average.

    Given that this is after 2911 passing attempts I'd put some credibility into the claim that Tannehill is better described as an average QB performance wise (over his career) than above average or below average. Don't forget that no matter how bad he looks to you, you have to evaluate all other QB's like you do Tannehill to get some idea of what "average" is. NFL is populated with not-so-good QB's.
     
    Irishman and Surfs Up 99 like this.
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    94,377
    46,668
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    So your saying that your passer numbers including 2018 has him coming slightly under average?
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  38. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

    6,912
    7,654
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Yeah, to be precise that -0.1166 z-score translates to 45.36th percentile. So if you had 100 starting QB's, passer rating is saying Tannehill is between the 54th best to 55th best, so slightly below average but overall around average.
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    94,377
    46,668
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Take it up with C`brad Pauly, his numbers match up with my evaluation over the years.
     
  40. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,020
    2,844
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    You were agreeing with the assessment that Tannehill is “total garbage”, “was never on anyone’s draft board” and “washed up dishrag” as being harsh but fair asessments of Tannehill as a QB. That’s a long way from cbrad’s “slightly below average” which you now say match your evaluation.

    Over the whole of Tannehill’s career he is slightly below average, in the last 5 tears he’s been slightly above average, but if you eliminate every QB’s rookie year then the NFL average QB rating would be higher.

    My assessment of Tannehill has basically been that he’s been good at some things and bad at others, which in the final wash gives him an average rating. I hoped for a long time that he could overcome the bad points of his game but that seems to be insurmountable for him without a good to elite OL.
     

Share This Page