Dolphins QB Pat White Unfiltered

White did not complete a pass and produced only 14 more yards of offense despite taking over 3 times the amount of snaps. I do not understand how in any way that constitutes more of an impact. Tyler Thigpen came in and in one quarter exceeded Pat Whites contribution for the year. I understand that the plans for Pat White were larger and grander but it is Pat Whites production that limits his time on the field, not the trifecta not adhering to what has been proven to be a faulty plan.

 

My definition is a player who does not fit NFL guidelines at his position, like a Nick and ZT at ILB, a JT at DE, etc. Too small, never make it.

 

just reading thru this thread now, but you can't "take away" a run a player had to suit your criteria for being pissed off about when he was drafted or how he has performed. it doesn't work like that. if he got a 33 yard run praise him for it.

 

Some of Pat White's plays were when the outcome of the game was in question, and made a difference.

None of what Henne did mattered in his rookie season.

 

As already stated by me I'm not a big Pat white fan. I cringe when he's brought into the game. Actually I have screamed a few times when he was brought in.

It took Cribbs several years before ye developed into what he is today and lets face it he's still a below average receiver so I'm not sure the move was all that successful. What he is is an outstanding returner and very good running the wildcat.

So the logic or I should say the hope is that during this off season the trainers will pack on 10 pounds or so of lean mass on White allowing him to be a more effective runner. I agree that as a pure QB I just don't see him making it but lets face it no matter what the front office said that's not why they drafted him. They were looking for someone to run the cat that can throw the ball down field like Cribbs did for the browns this year.

White "can" be that guy.

On the later part of your reply I think we can just agree to disagree as my point was merely to set the context in which the logic was used. I will allow the original poster to defend his thoughts.

 

Agreed. Let's take away Ginn's two KO returns vs the Jets. His stats are ordinary, at best. Do we also take away the win?

There is a reason for the word average.

 

I posit that none of what Pat White did mattered in his rookie season, outside of assuring a loss in the Steelers game.

 

I still think the only reason they didn't go straight to Thiggy is because if they did Henne would not have been allowed back in the game and I'm sure they were hoping is vision would clear by the fourth quarter.

 

I agree that's what they were thinking. I don't think there was a conspiracy to get Pat White into the game.

 

Nice breakdown and I see your point, I wasn't clear....I meant for the position he was drafted for and playing, and running type of QB he is....Of course I root for the kid too, but I'm realistic as well.....what is something you didnt talk about with those 2?? money......remember Pat White is getting paid 2nd round money, quaterback money at that....so for that I'm past rooting, and from a business standpoint, waiting 5 years to develop a 2nd round qb in any format they run is downright bad business.....it isnt like Ginn (wow I'm actually sticking up for the Family) where he is a natural WR w/ burner speed, and you say "ehh maybe" this kid is taking up some vaulable scratch, that could be used elsewhere....say a FS, or a ILB......if no CBA is reached I hope they dump him, if they cant trade him.....doesnt mean I dont like his personality, he is a great kid, I'm talking strictly from a business standpoint, as what they are paying out, to what your getting back.....doesnt add up

Answer yourself this, if Henne and Thigpin go down for say 5-7 weeks (knock on wood), you have ANY faith this cat is doing anything productive for your team over that period of time, against NFL defenses 1 year in from WV, over an extended period of time....that is win games.....?? if the answer is no, like mine is, then you have to get somebody in there that can....and definately for less, cuz at that point he is the 3rd string qb...

 

Hahah, remember I'm the guy who cringes and screams when they bring white into the game so in short, hell No! Soon as Henne was hurt and out for a length of time however they would bring in a vet QB. If he's avail how good could he be though? That's part of the reason I am still hoping that they bring Penny back and maybe slide White over to Receiver.

 

yeah I would love that, if Penny was okay with it, carring 4 qb's is almost unheard of......either that or I would also like to see Penny be a QB coach with Miami....I could see him being a good one.....doesn Penny still have the itch though?? there are some openings for him somewhere in this league to compete...

 

That's why I mentioned the possibility of moving white to receiver or even a special teams spot. But I have confidence that Thiggy can and will do a fine job as a Backup. If both he and Henne go down our season is most likely over but the same could be said for any team losing its top two QBs.

 

You'd be absolutely and totally wrong, but hey. Did you watch the second Patriots game?

 

You mean the first Patriots game, where Pat White had a 33 yard run and a 15 yard option handoff to Ricky in a game we lost. I watched the 2nd one as well, in which Pat White accounted for zero yards rushing or passing and lost 15 yards on a fumble in a win. I did indeed watch both games, and I stand by my statement.

And because I'm a helpful sort of fellow, here's the links to both box scores if you don't want to take my word for it.

1st game: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20091...ox-score#analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

2nd game: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20091...ox-score#analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

 

WR, Returns, TrickPlays: reverses, kick-holder, slot, WildCat, whatever
not a pro-set QB
his ticket will be in his athletism & versatility got to make his bones doing something else

 

I do not really count Pat White's 33 yard run because the blocking on it was so great. I'm not kidding when I say anyone from B.Hartline to R.Brown to Jason Allen could have made 30 yards or more on that play.

All White could do is hand off the ball and he came close to fumbling a couple of them. I give him zero credit for any yards or scores made by Ricky on those Wildcat plays. In fact, he was not even a decent decoy, the defenses started keying 95% on Ricky on every play.

When you look at the entire season. The players we lost out on because of drafting him. The time spent on trying to find a formation and plays where he could make yards. He was a drag on this team. His simply being on this team could have cost us at least a couple of wins.

I'm not saying in any one game but on the season as a whole, he was a minus, not a plus.

 

I'd rather have Thigpen in the spread.

 

Actually you and me both.

 

I tried to get on board with the PW pick, hoping he would open up the WildCat for us, but from what I saw this season, he's got a LONG way to go to prove he can play QB in the NFL.

 

Here's the issue I have. First, no matter how much of an impact he has in the single wing stuff the Dolphins want to run, this staff has to find a way for Pat White to make an impact on the game in the base set and in other avenues for this pick to come close to being worth it. He's not going to make an impact as a quarterback. Some are going to argue that he should be given a chance as a quarterback, but there has never been a quarterback with his profile that has ever had success in the NFL as a quarterback.

Second, if all Miami wants him to do is accentuate the wild cat package and nothing else, then he will never be worth the pick that was used on him. What leaving him at the quarterback position effectively does is force Miami to have only one quarterback active on game day.

 

I don't see how you can say that.

Let's say he scores seven touchdowns one year...passing, receiving, combined, whatever. To me that production is worth a second rounder regardless of "yardage" because its directly affecting the outcome of games.

 

seven touchdowns from pat white in a season
all due respect but that is a tall order

 

It might be if your roster is already loaded and you can afford to spend high picks on situational players.....but that just wasn't the case with us. I think a good description for that pick is "irresponsible"

 

The thing is that what you just said has nothing to do with what I just said. Or I read it/comprehended it wrong.

A situational player who puts points on the board is just as good as a starter to me. If he were to help us put more points on the board, in my mind, he would be worth the pick. Regardless of other contribution.

 

very well defined

 

And that's probably what their thinking was as well.....they needed a play maker on offense and thought White might help them open things up.

I think where they missed is how they projected Pat White and his skill set. They took a guy who's best attribute was that he's dangerous in the open field and tried to teach him to be a Pro set QB.

This pick and how it turns out is mostly on the staff and what they do from here out, IMO anyway

 

if the intent was to open the wildcat up and to become a playmaker within, then why not train him exclusively within the formation..instead, they foced their time elsewhere.

 

I think they did try to use him in the Wildcat. But I also think they realized that he cannot break a tackle. He cannot run between the tackles like a Ronnie Brown can. Ronnie Brown is what made our Wildcat happen.

And no one this side of Chris Johnson can really get outside on a NFL defense. I spoke to Mark Higgs last year and he said that one of the first things a running back learns when coming to the NFL is that getting to the outside is close to impossible compared to college.

On the other I think Tyler Thigpen would have been great in our Wildcat. he does not have to break off big runs, just always make a couple of yards at least with the real threat of passing the ball.

Which is what Tim Tebow can do. Tim Tebow will never outrun Pat White but he can make tough yards up the middle.

The base of the Wildcat is really the sweep play. If the guy playing the "QB" position can make 4-6 yards on the keeper up the middle then it works. If the player at the "QB" position can throw a pass then even better.

I think Thigpen could do this much much better then White ever could. And Thigpen has scored at least one TD from catching a pass so he is a real threat lined up anywhere.

To me, our perfect Wildcat formation would have Thigpen at "QB", Ricky as the slot back coming on the sweep and with Pat White playing the right side WR position. You know have two QB/WR/RBs on the field at the same time.

That is what would set the defense back on it's heels.

One thing we went away from for a while mid season was the Ricky sweep part of the play and I think it is a important part. With Pat White in it that is all the formation became late in the season and Ricky still made yards even with the entire defense keying on him.

The way I understand it is that Pat White biggest problem in passing the ball (except for being able to really grip a NFL sized ball) is to throw over the LOS for a short to medium pass over the middle.

I think it was at the Senior Bowl where in practice the coaches put up a 10 foot net and his passing fell apart. (he was only 4 for 10 in that game btway)

This is why he was able to almost hit Ginn on the long pass attempt downfield over the middle and why even in preseason almost all of his pass attempts were on roll outs.

But lined up as the right side WR who can pass would give a lot of options. Hartline was a HS QB so he might be able to do it.

White might be able to bulk up and like Cribbs in a few years be a decent all around athlete but Cribbs was a UFA and Edelman was a 7th round pick.

If Pat White had not been a early pick he would have been eager to try doing other things then being a QB.

I do not blame him for being a early pick no more then do I blame T.Ginn or Jason Allen. That said I wish they would go away, lol.

 

Don't ya think that Penny's injury changed the plans and training for White?