Dolphins reportedly ‘want’ to pay Tua Tagovailoa but aren’t sure about his fair market value
171 replies
"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
:sidelol:
Go re-read what I said.
I said you have to run the ball.
Want to try this again? OK. I'll give you another chance.
Post #63. I quoted this from you:
"I’ve said it time and time and time again…and Brad will pull out his list and charts of stats to dispute it but if you can’t run the ball, you can’t throw the ball, especially in frigid cold weather games."
Notice you are saying if you "can't run the ball".. that does not mean if you don't try to run the ball. It means if you CANNOT run the ball, so the focus is on effectiveness, which could either be yards per rushing attempt or total yards.
My Bart Starr example directly proves you wrong there: 111.6 rating when the league average was 66.6 even when their running game gained only 80 yards. There's no way to argue against that. But you moved the goalposts instead of admitting I disproved what you said. Care to retract now?
And the Aaron Rodgers example disproves your 2nd and 3rd claims, which are:
"Oh Brad, you look at the wrong stats my friend. You’re illustrating yards gained but you’re forgetting the more important stat…the number of rushes attempted. GB rushed 31 times to 24 pass attempts."
and
"No you didn’t. You re-enforces my claim. You yourself just said the Bills rushed the ball 30 times…THIRTY!!! With 37 pass attempts. That’s rushing the ball Brad. Had you said the Bills ran the ball only 13 times to 37 passes, you’d have a valid counter…but not with 30 rushes."
I showed you an example with 20 rushes vs. 30 passing attempts in similar weather to the 18 rushing attempts the Dolphins had vs. KC with the QB putting up a 104.2 rating.
First, admit I disproved what you actually wrote then we can continue with other claims. But right now you're just goalpost moving.
OwesOwn614forum_veteranFrom a cbssports.com article about players who might hold out of training camp:
The Pro Bowl quarterback was in and out of Miami's spring program before reporting to mandatory minicamp, where he admitted to growing impatience over long-term contract talks. Declaring that "the market is the market," Tagovailoa has reportedly yet to receive an offer from the Dolphins that's comparable to recent deals signed by fellow signal-callers Jared Goff and Trevor Lawrence. He's likely torn between playing the good soldier and wanting to secure a pay raise before risking another injury, which makes a hold in a distinct possibility. Instead of risking $40,000 daily fines by skipping camp altogether, he could show up and participate in limited fashion, with unofficial approval from the coaches.
Prediction: Reports to camp as a "hold in"
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"OwesOwn614 wrote:
From a cbssports.com article about players who might hold out of training camp:
The Pro Bowl quarterback was in and out of Miami's spring program before reporting to mandatory minicamp, where he admitted to growing impatience over long-term contract talks. Declaring that "the market is the market," Tagovailoa has reportedly yet to receive an offer from the Dolphins that's comparable to recent deals signed by fellow signal-callers Jared Goff and Trevor Lawrence. He's likely torn between playing the good soldier and wanting to secure a pay raise before risking another injury, which makes a hold in a distinct possibility. Instead of risking $40,000 daily fines by skipping camp altogether, he could show up and participate in limited fashion, with unofficial approval from the coaches.
Prediction: Reports to camp as a "hold in"
I hope it doesn’t come this this, but maybe Tua needs to take a page out of Marino’s playbook.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
If Grier truly doesn’t want to give TuaHoff/Lawrence money, he’s really going to be in a bind if the rumored extension for Love happens first:
OwesOwn614forum_veteran"Fishhead wrote:
If Grier truly doesn’t want to give TuaHoff/Lawrence money, he’s really going to be in a bind if the rumored extension for Love happens first:
Grier's stance on securing Tua is the GM equivalent of Flo's canned "Tua is our QB" non-answers when he was asked about rumored efforts to replace him. Saying you're happy with your QB but want to "find a deal that works for both sides" is proof that you're not that happy with your QB. There's going to be a market for QBs next offseason and we very well might need a new one. That'll make some of our posters happy, so it's not all bad.
Meanwhile:
Jordan Love won't practice without deal, but Packers optimistic
Rob Demovsky, ESPN Staff Writer
Jul 22, 2024, 10:36 AM ET
GREEN BAY, Wis. -- The Packers and Jordan Love may be nearing an agreement on a contract extension, but until it's done, the starting quarterback won't participate in practice or any games this preseason.
Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst said Monday shortly before the team's first practice of training camp that Love's representatives informed him Saturday night of their plans before a deal gets done.
"We completely understand where he's coming from," Gutekunst said.
Love did report for training camp on time and take part in meetings and other training camp activities except for practice. Previously, Love took part in the entire offseason program and the team's mandatory minicamp in June to fulfill requirements for a $500,000 workout bonus.
When asked whether an extension could get done within a few days, Gutekunst said: "Yeah, I think so, but again, you never know. We're working really hard to get that done. At the same time, the thing I have confidence in is we both want the same thing."
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40616528/jordan-love-practice-deal-packers-optimistic
Grier likes to play hardball, and it often leads to just a larger contract. If he fails to get a deal done with Tua I'm joining the call for "Grier has to go". On the other hand, if he can get a contract that on paper is larger but has less guaranteed money, or makes it easier for us to move on from Tua if he somehow doesn't pan out, then it's all good.
But it's certainly concerning right now.
OwesOwn614forum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
Grier likes to play hardball, and it often leads to just a larger contract. If he fails to get a deal done with Tua I'm joining the call for "Grier has to go". On the other hand, if he can get a contract that on paper is larger but has less guaranteed money, or makes it easier for us to move on from Tua if he somehow doesn't pan out, then it's all good.
But it's certainly concerning right now.
Even if this plays out horribly and we start over at QB in 2025, I'm willing to see whether Grier lands on his feet. I get the impression that Ross has a lot of influence on his decisions and it's possible that the opportunity cost for not resigning him will result in a better team with a lesser QB. Grier's built a good team and although I'm a Tua fan, I'm willing to see how things play out before putting Grier on the hot seat.
OwesOwn614forum_veteran"OwesOwn614 wrote:
Even if this plays out horribly and we start over at QB in 2025, I'm willing to see whether Grier lands on his feet. I get the impression that Ross has a lot of influence on his decisions and it's possible that the opportunity cost for not resigning him will result in a better team with a lesser QB. Grier's built a good team and although I'm a Tua fan, I'm willing to see how things play out before putting Grier on the hot seat.
The team looks like it's built to win now, or in the next few years. This doesn't look like a multi-year building process. Having to settle with a lesser QB is almost like saying we missed our opportunity. Whether that's really Ross or Grier who knows, but it's a failure based on how the team is built.
OwesOwn614forum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
The team looks like it's built to win now, or in the next few years. This doesn't look like a multi-year building process. Having to settle with a lesser QB is almost like saying we missed our opportunity. Whether that's really Ross or Grier who knows, but it's a failure based on how the team is built.
The opportunity cost I mentioned considers whether the money Tua will command would be better served by being invested in quality depth. We're really deep in several areas on the team and resigning Tua and/or Phillips and/or Holland is going to wreck that significantly. Based on our history since #13, I think it's a smart move to lock up Tua because decent-to-good QBs are hard to find and I'm bearing the scars of the mediocrity we used under center for two decades prior to his arrival.
But I'm pretty sure his extension will cost us Holland and/or Phillips next year. It's possible a Hill extension allows us to resign one of them, but I cannot imagine we're going to keep both. So the question is whether Tua + Phillips or Holland = Phillips and Holland and *mystery QB option* in 2025.
BTW: The fact that we're losing priority free agents every offseason is the reason why I think that Grier -for as infuriating as he is - should not be on the hot seat. You cannot lose good players if you didn't draft them to begin with and thankfully, we're back in the business of using our draft picks again next year. For now.
"OwesOwn614 wrote:
The opportunity cost I mentioned considers whether the money Tua will command would be better served by being invested in quality depth. We're really deep in several areas on the team and resigning Tua and/or Phillips and/or Holland is going to wreck that significantly. Based on our history since #13, I think it's a smart move to lock up Tua because decent-to-good QBs are hard to find and I'm bearing the scars of the mediocrity we used under center for two decades prior to his arrival.
But I'm pretty sure his extension will cost us Holland and/or Phillips next year. It's possible a Hill extension allows us to resign one of them, but I cannot imagine we're going to keep both. So the question is whether Tua + Phillips or Holland = Phillips and Holland and *mystery QB option* in 2025.
BTW: The fact that we're losing priority free agents every offseason is the reason why I think that Grier -for as infuriating as he is - should not be on the hot seat. You cannot lose good players if you didn't draft them to begin with and thankfully, we're back in the business of using our draft picks again next year. For now.
Really hard to win a SB without a very good QB. Just look at the QBs of the SB winning teams last 30 years and you'll see most of them are elite QBs or QBs that played elite that season. I think that trumps the opportunity cost you're referring to.
As far as building from the draft, yes in theory a good idea, but Grier doesn't have a great record there. He's been better with FA.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
Finatikmoderator"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
You're really bad at that game.
Lots of people will tell you what they think about you and what you shouldn't and should do. Not everyone's thoughts are worth consideration. Don't take criticism from anyone who you wouldn't also go to for advice.
FinatikmoderatorTua Tagovailoa at Miami Dolphins Training Camp
Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa is not holding out of training camp. Tagovailoa reported to his fifth training camp without a new deal — avoiding the $50,000 per day mandatory fine that would come with a holdout. But don’t discount the possibility that he “holds in” — the term given to players who report but don’t practice in protest of their contract status.
Dolphins receiver Tyreek Hill said he expects Tagovailoa to practice. “He’s in great spirits,” Hill said. “… He doesn’t want to miss his window.” “Tua’s a guy that loves the game,” Jaylen Waddle added. “I don’t think it will be a distraction.”
Tagovailoa has long believed he deserves a market-based contract and couldn’t hide his frustration that he hadn’t yet gotten one when he spoke to reporters last month. That displeasure has presumably grown in the time since.
Tagovailoa’s attendance at the team’s voluntary offseason program was intermittent, and when he did show up, he sat out team drills as a negotiating ploy. That was the case in the team’s mandatory minicamp, which he attended.
Tagovailoa and Green Bay Packers QB Jordan Love — who is conducting a hold-in — are both looking for long-term deals that will average north of $50 million annually. While it’s unclear if the Dolphins and Tagovailoa have made significant progress since Tua spoke to reporters in June, Packers GM Brian Gutekunst struck an optimistic tone about a potential Love extension.
“I feel we’re close,” Gutekunst told Green Bay reporters.
Do the Dolphins feel the same way? Head coach Mike McDaniel will presumably shed more light on Wednesday when he speaks to reporters for the first time this camp.
“I’m not blind to people that are in my position that are getting paid,” Tagovailoa said last month. “Am I concerned about it? I’m not concerned about it, but there’s a lot of discussion that we’ve had that we just are trying to move that thing into the right direction where we can both be happy.”
Lots of people will tell you what they think about you and what you shouldn't and should do. Not everyone's thoughts are worth consideration. Don't take criticism from anyone who you wouldn't also go to for advice.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"Finatik wrote:
You're really bad at that game.
Oh crap, posted the wrong darned video lol
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
VManissubscriberJust a reminder for those who say Tua's lack of playoff wins are a reason not to extend him now.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"VManis wrote:
Just a reminder for those who say Tua's lack of playoff wins are a reason not to extend him now.
And yet the Jets STILL suck! The Dolphins DONT suck…and Sanchez couldn’t carry Tua’s jockstrap.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
HooligansubscriberSanchez is a legend butt, not because of his play-off wins, the Butt Fumble cemented him forever in NFL lore.
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteranWhether you’re a Tua supporter or not, one thing is is undisputedly apparent after the 1st 2 days of camp…the Dolphins CANT win without Tua. The offense has been abysmal with Tua sitting out 11 on 11s.
Grier, if you don’t get this contract done, right quick and in a hurry the team is going to pay the price. Be ready for torches and pitchforks.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
djphinfansubscriber"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
Whether you’re a Tua supporter or not, one thing is is undisputedly apparent after the 1st 2 days of camp…the Dolphins CANT win without Tua. The offense has been abysmal with Tua sitting out 11 on 11s.
Grier, if you don’t get this contract done, right quick and in a hurry the team is going to pay the price. Be ready for torches and pitchforks.
I laugh when I hear some say our system is Qb friendly.
It is not
The_Dark_Knightforum_veteran"djphinfan wrote:
I laugh when I hear some say our system is Qb friendly.
It is not
It really isn’t. Only a handful of quarterbacks in the league could run our system, with Purdy being right at the top of that short list I suspect.
“The person you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so you better make sure you’re someone interesting”
JJ_79forum_veteran"The_Dark_Knight wrote:
Whether you’re a Tua supporter or not, one thing is is undisputedly apparent after the 1st 2 days of camp…the Dolphins CANT win without Tua. The offense has been abysmal with Tua sitting out 11 on 11s.
Grier, if you don’t get this contract done, right quick and in a hurry the team is going to pay the price. Be ready for torches and pitchforks.
Do you know the numbers or specifics about the contract? I actually like that Grier is not doing the same as the Lions. Tua is under contract and if he doesn’t practice, he only will hurt himself. Lamar Jackson didn’t get a contract right away either and he was MVP, lol.
If we don’t make the playoffs this season, it should get warm for everyone around here starting with Grier.
TheHighExhaultedforum_veteranTua fully practiced today. Rumor is a deal could be imminent.
TheHighExhaultedforum_veteranIt's official. 4 years $212 million extension. $167 guaranteed.
Let's go!