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Dolphins@Saints post mortem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disgustipate, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's really disheartening in a whole new way see a game that's a potential "statement" game, and the team just piss all over its own shoes and then dunk them in the toilet for good measure.

    The coaching was pretty hit and miss. I think they had some good ideas that didn't work as well as they could have, and some places it just fell flat. They had a good run game plan, but a bad protection plan.

    Ryan Tannehill had a bad game. I'm not talking about the interceptions, either except for maybe the one. This was the antithesis of some of the clutch plays of the last couple of weeks. It was bad plays in the clutch all around, and I don't think it's even one specific problem. Maybe some of it's bad luck, but ****.

    The pass protection was awful in an overall sense, but it's very much been a total package issue. It's almost every aspect that is misfiring at this point.

    Tannehill doesn't have good pocket sense, and he seems to get caught literally every time he scrambles to his right while looking to throw the ball. The tackles aren't playing particularly well. The coaching staff seems insistent on running 5-man protections or empty backfield packages that doesn't have the ball getting out quick enough when pressured. The blitz pick-up is ****ty at times. You don't get to 5 sacks a game by just one thing.


    Running pin-and-pull plays with Lamar Miller are clearly a winner, but I'm not sure if you can base a run game around that. The play works phenomenally well with Mike Pouncey and Jonathan Martin pulling, but at a certain point if you've got a run play that depends on getting a specific alignment of down linemen to work well, you don't have the foundation for a run play, you've got an audible.

    I did like the addition of the Pistol/Option stuff in the offense, and thought it worked pretty well. It's not the Dolphins offensive philosophy, but it should be a week to week issue.

    I don't know that I've convinced I've seen enough, and it hasn't come up because the team has been winning... But Mike Wallace has been ****ing terrible this year, and this week is hopefully about rock bottom. That was Ted Ginn at his worst bad.

    Brandon Gibson on the other hand looks like a pretty damn good pick-up.

    Charles Clay didn't really have a big play this week, but what I'm happy about is the consistency. 100% catch rate and was a real useful as an outlet receiver.

    Defensively, well... The defensive line was good? I dunno man.

    Dion Jordan continued to look good. Jared Odrick had a really excellent game. Olivier Vernon is very clearly an outside rusher, and I think putting him in Jared Odrick's old position has been problematic for him.

    The defensive coaching staff didn't have any answer for Darren Sproles. Phillip Wheeler was awful in general, and beyond that it didn't get much better.

    There seemed to be a lot of "almost" interceptions. Maybe that's a Drew Brees thing, but there's a lot of half-second closings that could have been game-charging plays.

    Reshad Jones had another bad game, and I think Chris Clemons had a very uncharacteristic game in terms of giving up catches against him.

    grfhgtajhatrj
     
  2. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    A slightly edited version from my Club Post:

    Well, Miami ran into a buzzsaw tonight. Not much to be said losing 38-17; New Orleans was the better team. You have to appreciate the way Miami fought until the end though. Jared Odrick and Dion Jordan both had incredible effort plays on the drive that Sproles fumbled the ball. However, Miami shot themselves in the foot tonight, and you're not going to win games when the turnover margin is -3 against you. Miami had this game within reach, and that last TD before the first half was pretty much the dagger. The column changes from Good, Bad, and Bizarre, to Good, Bad, and Very Bad tonight because well, some things were very bad.

    Good:
    - Lamar Miller is clearly Miami's best back, and it showed tonight. He's got great burst, and I thought he showed some physicality tonight. He was better than Daniel Thomas in pass-pro for the second straight week.
    - Mike Sherman showed a little creativity bringing the zone-read (I called this in the Main Forum) and pistol formations tonight.
    - Brandon Gibson, at this rate, is going to turn into a better signing than Mike Wallace.
    - Charles Clay continues to impress, though you did cost me a victory in fantasy this week.
    - Mike Pouncey. If there's a better C in the game, I'd like to see who it is. He's about the only lineman that was worth anything tonight.
    - The run defense had a pretty good game overall until the Khiry Robinson drive. That was nice to see.
    - Paul Soliai; when healthy, he's pretty good.
    - Jared Odrick had a nice game and made some nice plays despite getting flat out pancaked by Jahri Evans (that was REALLY nasty) on one play in the 4th quarter. He had some nice hustle plays, and IMO, was better tonight at DE than OV.
    - Marvin Austin showed some things tonight, and played both 1 and 3 techniques for those counting.
    - Derrick Shelby was Miami's best DE tonight. It's beyond me that he's not starting over Olivier Vernon. He should be when Wake comes back.
    - Brent Grimes quietly had another productive game. Let's call it 3 of 4 for the year. Strangely enough, Cleveland was his worst effort.
    - Chris Clemons wasn't injured and came back in the game, so that's a plus.
    - Jimmy Wilson I thought did a nice job for what he was asked to do, and caused a fumble.

    Bad:
    - Mike Sherman abandoned the run a drive to early. Again.
    - Ryan Tannehill had a bad night. It happens. Hard to fault him for two of those INTs, but the one that happened before the first half was rough, and squarely on him. His ball security when in the pocket and when running needs to get better. All in all though, I liked how he kept fighting until the end of the game. Last year, I think he would've unraveled pretty quickly. The kid has poise.
    - Daniel Thomas just isn't good. There's no way around it.
    - Mike Wallace had a bad night, and he's had a rough start to the season. Tannehill threw his best deep ball and hit you in between the 1's in #11. C'mon man! His effort deteriorated at the end of the game as well. He stopped running on one INT and just didn't seem to be in the game the 2nd half. This needs to change.
    - Dion Sims was alligator arms tonight on that last deep pass.
    - Jon Martin and Richie Incognito, you're in this category tonight. Tyson Clabo is BARELY in this category.
    - Olivier Vernon should not be a starter. I hope, if anything, Miami's planning on having Jordan or Shelby take over either this week or after the bye. It's clear that OV is a situational player.
    - Dion Jordan? Hello? I thought he could have been used more.
    - Jamar Taylor had a rough night.
    - So did Reshad Jones, who has had a rough season.

    Really Bad:
    - John Jerry was a catastrophe tonight. Getting blown off the line, losing 1-on-1's regularly, on the ground too much. I'll lump Jim Turner in with this category. Miami's on pace to allow the most sacks in franchise history. 18 in 4 games? Really?
    - Kevin Coyle...that was awful. Two weeks in a row his game plans have stunk. And I mean they've been really bad. No one was physical at the line all night with Jimmy Graham. How many times was Darren Sproles left running in the flats without anyone near him? That's kiddie $h!t. How is it possible you give up conversions on 3rd and 12, 12, 14, and 20? It's not even poor execution, it's poorly designed defense. More of the same on tipping blitzes this week as well. Miami's total (yardage) defense was only like 21st or 22nd coming into this game, so it's not like it's been overly good this year. I feel like Coyle could do so much more with this personnel, and what he's done overall so far this year, it's just not working. I wonder if Miami would be better off going to more 3-4 (i.e. Under and Over) oriented looks. They did it more tonight than any game so far in base packages, though still not as often as last year, and lo and behold they had their best rush-defense performance all year...but that might have backfired as it put the ball in Drew Brees' hands even more, and he was surgical.

    All things considered though, if Miami rebounds on a short week and beats Baltimore, they'll be 4-1 heading into the bye with a chance to get healthy. I thought at best, Miami would be 2-3 at that point, so I'm very pleased with how this season has started. I love the direction that Ryan Tannehill's headed in, and if they would just rely on Lamar Miller and the ground game more, this offense could be pretty potent. I'm worried about the defense though. Very worried. I was worried after Atlanta, and Drew Brees showed us tonight that this side of the ball clearly has holes. Hopefully Miami's able to get these sorted out during the off week after the Baltimore game. Go Dolphins!
     
  3. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    The fact that that we are 3-1 cushions the blow from tonight's loss. I ust don't want to heat the usual dip****tery from those in the media.

    Tanny had a bad game but he will bounce back.
     
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  4. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did Dion do anything tonight? Seemed pretty quiet and it'd kind of amplified w/ living up here in Ohio (God's country) and seeing the good things that Barkevius is doing for the Browns. Wd like to see some of the same from him. And I hate alligator arms and shoestring tackles. Pick up your damn feet, your a running back!
     
  5. Hooty

    Hooty New Member

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    Hoo. Tanny looked like Brady with wheels all the way up to the first int. It REALLY seemed he got "it" into his head. He wasn't throwing accurate passes after that. Damn shame. I'm curious to see how he responds next game. EDIT- Oh I almost forgot! 3-1 is pretty darned good any way you slice it. Fins lost to a damn good team. Nothing to be mad or depressed about!
     
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  6. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    I'm pissed that Mike Wallace isn't making plays and dropping the football.
    Geez it hit him dead on. The accuracy was there. Wallace seems to be distracted.
     
  7. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Really be interesting to see how the team rebounds from this.

    Pretty thorough thrashing.
     
  8. Hooty

    Hooty New Member

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    Hoo. Oh totally agree with you bud. That deep ball to Wallace was perfect. That was such a pretty pass and such a terrible attempt to haul it in. Wallace is a buster. Like I said, He looked GREAT, yeah great up until that first int. After that, he started throwing some balls into the dirt, behind some guys. Not every pass, just some. But to me, he looked rattled. I could be totally off, maybe it was just the bad protection.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    John Jerry really should be benched, he's literally a menace on the field, if Turner cannot see how crappy he is playing, and has played, then he should look to draw a paycheck elsewhere b/c his lines performance is pure garbage.

    I think THill trusts the OL, and hold the ball b/c of it

    Think Wheeler and Ellerbe are good players in general but are more pieces then answers, they are not the types who can do it all.

    Thought Sherman lost his balls

    Could someone please explain to me how Thigpen has 1 touch, and a 50 yd gain, then never touches the ball on offense again, how does that happen.

    Think Tannehill has to realize that it is on him, the D can only do so much, he has to internalize that when we play a high scoring offense he simply cannot play as sloppily as he did tonight.

    Basically, he has to put on his big boy pants, he does not understand it yet, he's trying, he's not doing, he needs to own this one.
     
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  10. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    [video=youtube_share;Tie0tz7jGDI]http://youtu.be/Tie0tz7jGDI[/video]

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4
     
  11. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Haha about charles clay and your fantasy. I started him with gronk out and finley on the bye, down by 9 points. Clay had 10! Silver lining for me.
     
  12. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Damn shame, great team we played, wish it had gone better.

    I think people are a bit hard on Tannehill. I actually liked his play tonight all things considered. Considering

    1. Wallace dropped a game-changing bomb
    2. Wallace dropped a drive-continuing pass
    3. The first pick was his fault, but it was a dialed up quick slant. He's impressed me with them before but it just looks like he didn't look tonight.
    4. The pocket collapsed too much on the poor kid. Hard to ask too much of him when he's running for his life.

    The team looked like they gave up at one point, but Tannehill went back out there and drove the field for a beautiful TD to clay.

    All things consisted it could have been worse. I think we might have our guy.
     
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  13. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Propped you for the Thigpen comment alone. That makes zero sense.

    Wheeler and Ellerbe are good players that depend on Wake. Can't explain how much us not having him out there hurts this team.

    Tannehill needs to pick his spots better. I put a lot of that on our OL and it's lack of consistency to be fair.
     
  14. Saint Greg

    Saint Greg Well-Known Member

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    Good luck the rest of the year guys. I'd like to see you at the end but I think Denver and Seattle are going to be tough. We definitely need to find a way to run the ball and stop the run if we want to get there this year.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hard to explain Dafins, think of it this way, when Tyson fought a scrub boxer, he boxed down to his opponent, when he fought Lennox Lewis he had his A game on.

    THill has to realize he has to bring his A game, no mistakes, he has not quite discovered his higher game yet.
     
  16. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    You need to keep the RB screens up and you'll be fine.

    We got SEA covered, DEN is a problem.
     
  17. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Helluva game by you guys man. People here are crapping themselves by how "bad" we played but IMO it was just Nawlins playing a damn good game, gotta give credit where it;s due. Good luck on the rest of the season.

    If I have one gripe I thought Payton was trying to run up the score late. Kind of a douche move there but whatever, if we played better it wouldn't have been an issue.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Missing Kraken should not have made the D dysfunctional, yet Brees pretty much did whatever he wanted to against them, to me, not a fan of Nolan Carroll.

    Hopefully Dimitri Patterson comes back to us, we miss his playmaking ability.

    NC is Jason Allen w/o the ability to create turnovers
     
  19. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    That play call on 3rd and a centimeter was just awful and IMO, changed the whole tone of the game.
     
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  20. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Sure it does. Takes away the best pass rusher in the league and we can't replace it.

    Nolan Carroll is all or nothing and it's ******ed. That 3rd and 11 that he sold out to jump for a pick 6 and missed was just stupid.
     
  21. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Lamar Miller could of taken that outside in either direction. Daniel Thomas had no chance. Poor coaching decision.
     
  22. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    And when Tyson fought a guy he dodged for years he bit his ear off. You make no sense at all. Then he lost again to Evander again.
    You are using that as an angle at Tannehill. It is way past your bedtime.
     
  23. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Dial up a QB sneak. It was open. Sherman was pulling a Dan Henning on that call.
     
  24. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    Agreed, if our 6'4" qb couldn't get one inch, there's a problem. Or run the fd dive. Or if you must use DT, use his strength' bullying people at the line. Or better yet run Play action and roll RT out.... so many options.
     
  25. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    On third and inches you never hand the ball off in the backfield or get cute with a rollout. You use a QB sneak and get the first down. That was the crux. You won't beat that team kicking FG's even with Sturgis.
     
  26. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    A called sweep, that was not a play for blood, Sherman's no Daisy at all!

    You're right, of course, as I sat there watching I could just feel us losing, BAD!
     
  27. CD13

    CD13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How you don't call a sneak with Tannehill is beyond me...I would have called a sneak with Marino, at his age right now. Unbelievable...
     
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  28. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    :up::up::up::up::up:

    Seriously though... that was THE worse playcall I've seen in my life.

    Sherman: "OK guys, we need an inch... Lets get DT in there, and run a sweep!"
    All while John Jerry decides to take one of his numerous breaks on the field tonight.

    :pity:
     
  29. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Incognito and Pouncey. Our 2 best O-Linemen and Sherman wasn't calling a QB sneak to get 6inch gain behind those guys? It was lame playcalling. You go with the % play not some outside run which was asking for trouble especially to a RB whose forte isn't running to the outside. Big mistake.
     
  30. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought that 3rd down was huge. Gave them a huge boost and squandered a great opportunity for us to put 6 on the board. Really bad.
     
  31. CantinaJack

    CantinaJack New Member

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    hmm where to start... Tannehill- I think he is our guy, but he just wasn't ready for prime time. It was a tough draw going into NO for his first MNF. Ellerbe - slow and unimpressive so far imo. Soliai- sign him today! Sherman- run the damn ball! Coyle- ok, due to all the injuries you get a pass... but I'm on the verge of saying "you blow".
     
  32. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Meh. The Saints are 4-0 for a reason. Not many teams can stop their offense. What Darren Sproles did yesterday is what Darren Sproles does. What Jimmy Graham did yesterday was what Jimmy Graham does. We don't have the talent depth wise to cover all the Saints weapons. What killed us was giving the Saints extra oppurtunities with the turnovers. I think Ryan has coughed one up like every game and the offensive line. I hope they take Junior Galettes comments to heart and it eats them up at night. I still think we are contenders we just lost to a Superior Saints team which is superior to most teams in the league. We have made progress, but I don't know where this idea that we were elite status and can now contend with the Saints came from.
     
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  33. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Too many breakdowns, both mentally and from the coaching staff. Sherman getting too cute on third and an inch was inexcusable, IMO. Allowing numerous third and long conversions (which seems to have hindered us a number of times this year, not just last night) was a killer. Being in position to make numerous plays and just failing to do so time and time again.

    The good part, I think, is that much of this is curable. I think we have a number of guys that have shown the ability to play better than what they've been delivering not just last night, but this season. I think both the defense and offensive systems will find what will work well.

    The only things that really cause me concern is the offensive line and perhaps Tannehill's tendency to not take care of the ball that well. Those things may be a real thorn in this team's side all year.
     
  34. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    It's a combinations of things in my opinion,

    1. Young team under the bright lights going up against a veteran team that has been together for years now in a stadium that has as great of fans as you can get. We clearly weren't ready for that.

    2. New Orleans and Denver are the most prolific offenses in the NFL right now, and with Rob Ryan leading the defense in New Orleans that team looks like a super bowl contending team.

    3. No Wake=a trickle down effect meaning that our LB's struggle which leads to our secondary struggling. Our secondary relies on the pass rush in order to be effective. Nolan Carroll and rookie Jamar Taylor...No bueno against the physical freak WR's of New Orleans in Colston and Graham.

    4. Our offensive line stunk last night...plain and simple.

    5. Mike Wallace quit, and the team pretty much quit mid way through the third.
     
  35. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    Mine was bad. I needed 7.9 pts combined from Sturgis and Hartline to win my game. I got 7.3 #!#!@#
     
  36. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know if it's poorly designed defense, it's poor outcomes. I think the blitz thing is a bit of a red herring. They didn't blitz that much, and I'm not sure if they got burned a lot because of positioning. They threw a lot of different coverage and combinations at both Jimmy Graham and Darren Sproles, and nothing seemed to work, and a lot of it was execution. Both of them caught passes on I believe 5 defenders each. Some of the stuff was sound in design- Both Reshad Jones and Nolan Carroll had pretty good shots at making big plays in flat coverage on Sproles, but had bad timing to catastrophic effect. They had linebacker double coverage. They had defensive backs in man coverage. Same general deal with Graham. The execution was a bigger problem than any sort of coaching decision.
     
  37. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    We've been outgained in all 4 games. You can't keep getting torched by teams and expect to keep winning.

    Mike Wallace needs to do something quickly also. He had potential big plays in his hands and dropped them. I've seen more big catches from Ted Ginn this season for the Panthers and I haven't watched any Panthers games. He's actually made the highlight reel.
     
  38. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Yeah. The D wasn't great, but you walk into that game knowing that you have to score 30 points to have a chance of winning
     
  39. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I put the bulk of the blame for last night's loss on Mike Wallace. This guy was a complete bum last night. On the road in a hostile environment for primetime, you can't win with your #1 and most explosive receiver pulling a disappearing act. Possession receivers will only get you so far against a team and a crowd like that, and Keenan Lewis erased Wallace like Haden did. Just inexcusable.

    Wallace's production is just putrid for his contract. Thankfully Gibson's strong play bailed him out for the first few games. The FO paid this guy 60mil to bring explosion, and so far he's only impacted one game. He needs to show up.
     
  40. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    I think it's bad execution of a poorly designed scheme, and it's been that way for two straight weeks in my opinion. Jimmy Graham had free releases off the line all night when he was lined up where a traditional TE or H-back would be lined up. There were multiple occasions where Miami didn't dedicate anyone to covering the flats or had a LB matched-up with Sproles 1-on-1. Yes, I agree that Reshad Jones played poorly and he and Nolan Carroll both missed out on potential INTs, but I don't think they were put in good positions to begin with.

    The 1st drive New Orleans had. You have Jones one-on-one with Sproles coming from a traditional S spot. Granted, Jones bit HARD on that flat route, but that's asking for trouble if you're not trying to re-route Sproles in the slot. The slot blitz with Jimmy Wilson I believe on the 3rd and 2 play on the same drive. You could see that coming a mile away, just as Drew Brees did. Even some of the coverage schemes are poorly designed. Several times last night when Ellerbe and Wheeler were insterted into gaps and still had zone drops (looked like hook to curl and curl to flat drops) they're almost automatically at a disadvantage trying to cover their zone against someone like Sproles out of the backfield or Colston/Stills/Graham in the slot.

    That's been a problem all season; Coyle chooses to blitz in bad situations. Last week against Atlanta, he blitzed Nolan Carroll from the wide side of the field leaving Reshad Jones over top of Julio Jones on a 3rd and long. Matt Ryan torched that play, and if Reshad Jones hadn't made a stop, Julio Jones houses that. They did it against Indy in the 2nd quarter to give up that last TD as well. I think it's more troubling theme than bad execution. I'll grant that New Orleans is the most prolific offense Miami has faced thus far, and probably will face in the regular season. That said though, I think players could be put in better spots and/or used differently, especially with respect to Koa Misi, Philip Wheeler, and Olivier Vernon. I'm tempted to put Dion Jordan there as well, but I don't think we've seen enough to make a full assessment.
     
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