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Dolphins Training Camp 2014

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    He just seems to be around the ball more... and seems to have more of a "playmaker" mentality/ability...

    I didnt see Jamar Taylor even get thrown at much this past preseason. Did he get targeted much at all? It seems like they were throwing at Will Davis play after play in the Atlanta game...
     
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  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Problem is this quote could have been written on August 12, 2013.

    Remember all the balls Will Davis intercepted in camp last year? At one point we had to have a counter because there were at least 10 or 12 reported Will Davis interceptions. I think he had like 5 in a week at one point.

    Then we get to the regular season and they don't even trust him to play any snaps or be active until like Week 13. He played like 60 snaps, let up a ton of action to the Patriots, and that was his rookie season.

    I agree with you by the way I'm just playing devil's advocate. I have more hope for Will Davis than Jamar Taylor. I wasn't necessarily a fan of either draft pick but I figured Davis had a way better chance of proving me wrong.
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He did get targeted, four times. He didn't do well in my grading. Only one of those passes was complete, but I believe two or maybe even all three of the other passes could easily have been complete with better execution from the quarterback and receiver. In other words he wasn't covering the player well and his coverage was not necessarily the reason for the incomplete pass. One of those was a potential touchdown on the goal line, he just froze and let the receiver have space right at the front of the end zone. He also got called for either defensive pass interference or defensive holding, can't remember which. His body language was also poor. The Dolphins tried him out in slot coverage for some of the night and I think that's where he had most of his instances of poor coverage.
     
  4. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Welp, i have been saying that for quite some time now. He should have been playing middle linebacker. His talent is being wasted. It's not like trying him at MLB will make that unit any worse than it already is.
     
  5. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    appreciate the effort Sick :up:
     
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  6. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    I think injuries slowed him down a bit last season, but if he can stay healthy I would expect him to get serious playing time this year. I'm still not sold on Finnegan so Davis may wind up getting a major opportunity.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't recall Will Davis dealing with any injuries. Jamar Taylor did, though.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That 2013 draft class was Ireland's final extended middle finger to this franchise.

    What a collection of stiffs.

    The mediocre kicker is the best player right now. I guess Jordan still has a chance to be something more than mediocre, but right now, it's a horror show.
     
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  9. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    I'm pretty sure both of them dealt with injuries, along with Dion Jordan too. I might be misremembering though.
     
  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    It's been one season. Let's wait a little longer before we deem every player who doesn't make an impact year one a bust.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Right now I'd like to see Will Davis continue to ascend and try and be a starter. That's a climb for he and Jamar Taylor because they're still guys who are lost on the depth chart a bit.

    I mean think about that Jimmy Wilson is the starting nickel while Brent Grimes holds down one of the starting outside jobs and they paid Cortland Finnegan $5.5 million a year to hold down the other starting outside job. That means probably the best Jamar Taylor or Will Davis are fighting for is the #4 and #5 jobs.

    They're lost on the depth chart. I'd like to see Will Davis rise above it.

    If he does, I think that's when you'll start to see kind of the unique set of good and bad that Davis represents. I think he will be a ballhawk and he will get his hands on the football a lot. He did in college. He's also perfect for this style of coverage. He'll intercept passes, there will be pick-6's. But there will also be long touchdowns because he bit on double-moves. There will very likely be piss poor tackling and run support. It's a unique give-take that probably can't be fully evaluated for its worth until you get him on the field and playing a lot of snaps. Maybe in the end we decide it's not working and we go a different direction, let him walk in free agency or something along those lines. Or maybe he improves on the weaknesses he put on such heavy display in college and suddenly you've got Sam Madison reborn.
     
  12. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    He got hurt right before the season started...

     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not just the draft class.

    Consider that he took a linebackers unit that was well-paid but also well-performing in 2012, and turned it into a unit that was even HIGHER-paid, but way-way-way-way-worse performing in 2013. And that may bleed into 2014 simply because the salaries are guaranteed and the team has no choice.

    THAT was his middle finger.
     
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  14. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    MrClean likes this.
  15. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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  16. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    They should just keep him there.
     
  17. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Why? His best asset is his ability to rush the passer. I'd like to see him get some snaps at LB but moving him there full time stunts his growth in the area he was brought here to excel at.
     
  18. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Watching our preseason game again. On that 3rd and 9 in the end of the 2nd quarter, Labato completed the pass to #40 in the flat, he got the first down and Landry was out in front....he completely and utterly refused to even touch a Falcon player, he ran right by two of them.

    Not a big deal, but something I noticed that stuck out.
     
  19. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Our D-line is stacked, especially with Fede coming on. Our LB corp stinks. DJ is good in pass coverage, can stay with tight ends and running backs. He's looked pretty good every time he's lined up at LB. Just pencil him into a LB spot and fill one of the holes.
     
  20. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well considering none of them, save the mediocre kicker, made an impact I guess up is the only direction to go.
     
  21. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    If the added weight means he becomes less effective, then imo you have him gradually trim back down and play LB while having him put his hand on the ground now and then. He may drop the weight anyway now that he's off the PEDs.

    He looked awful last week. Maybe it was because he's never played a ton of true DE. Maybe the extra bulk isn't good for his game. I think they'll be watching him closely over the next three games to see if he can bounce back and be a full-time pass-rush threat at that position at that size.

    It's such a tough thing. Total tweener scheme fit problem. This kid was a top 3 pick!
     
  22. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    You can't make decisions on player development based on holes in your roster. It's too short-sighted. If they see and value his pass-rush potential at DE, stay the course and see that through. Jerking a young developing player around is a good way to ruin or curb his career, imo.

    To be clear, I think he's better off playing at the lighter weight, spending most of his time at LB, and taking some snaps with his hand in the ground. But that's me. If the staff sees "elite edge rusher from DE potential" then you have him continue this weight game experiment and keep him where you think his best NFL future is.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I always thought it was the biggest load of nonsense whenever I would hear people talk about Jarvis Landry as being this perfect football player with this great attitude and he'll get out and block his butt off for you, etc. They're just not watching the tape. I'm sure he's a hard worker and a great locker room personality but they were tacking on "good blocker" simply because it's part of their gestalt for what a tough, hard-working wide receiver with a great attitude looks like. They never stopped to watch the film and truly evaluate whether he's a good blocker.

    In short, he wasn't. His effort in blocking was always just left of top-center.
     
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  24. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My understanding was that the LB switch out was largely at the behest of the coaching staff. Obviously the GM always gets the final blame, but reportedly the coaches were the ones who reviewed the film and specifically singled out Ellerbe and Wheeler as the guys they wanted. Maybe if Ireland had been a better people person he could have talked them out of it. Or maybe he agreed. I don't know, but I heard that it began with the coaching staff and that they pushed very strongly for it.
     
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  25. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    It's not like the kicker is even guaranteed a spot, given his history of groin injuries.
     
  26. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    He literally ducked and shimmed past the defender instead of blocking him....was a hell've a defensive end pass rush lol
     
  27. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Davis is a guy with natural instincts and natural ball skills. Sometimes you get CBs who look like they have instincts but really just jump everything. During his first preseason I thought Davis could be either guy. It seemed pretty 50/50 to me. But I was pretty impressed with his play against Atlanta and I'm inclined to believe he's more the instincts guy. He'll still piss you off by falling for too many double moves but I see progress there. Actually I see more progress than I ever saw from Vontae Davis in that regard.
     
  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm pretty sure Davis had a toe or foot ailment that kept him out for a while.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've seen him do that in games that count, in college. Exactly that.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's all conjecture and a big fat game of telephone. For example you say the coaches watched the film and singled out Ellerbe and Wheeler. We've had literally no indication of that. We've heard indications that change at the linebacker position was coach-driven, but nothing so detailed as saying that the coaches watched all this film of all these free agents and were like go get these two. That's you filling in blanks that ought not be filled in.

    You say the GM gets the final blame and there's a reason. He gets the final CALL on it, too. He could have pushed for linebackers other than Wheeler and Ellerbe. He could have pushed for cheaper ones. He could have added a younger draft guy. He could have taken the competition angle, adding someone to compete with these players rather than cutting Dansby and Burnett. He could have swapped only one of the two players, which would have limited the risk.

    He had aaalllllll these choices, except apparently on message boards where people like to pretend his hands were completely tied and the General Manager with final say authority written into his contract really didn't have any authority at all.
     
  31. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    This may seem like a strange question, but given his success last year why wouldn't they find a way to get him out there in short field situations to help limit his weaknesses? You know, give him two helping boundaries to let him do his thing a little easier. Every report we read had him making plays as long as the ball was in front of him, it seems short-sighted to not at least try to leverage that.
     
  32. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I specifically remember the coaches saying they wanted better blitzers, a more attacking style of play from the LBs and a few weeks later Ellerbe and Wheeler were on board. I watched both of them play in 2012 and they were good players, what happened in 2013 is anyone's guess. Poor play, bad scheme fit, etc. But all the blame Ireland stuff is ridiculous, it's become the go to explanation when people have no idea what they're talking about.
     
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  33. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Love the gray

    Sent from my Note 3
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree with Armando Salguero on this that he needs to have a chat with Matt Moore and communicate where he stands, in the wake of the Brady Quinn signing.

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...s-mostly-about-pat-devlinand-shouldnt-be.html

    There's really no good reason not to do that other than laziness or some sense of disrespect toward the player as if he's a peon that doesn't "need to know" these things.

    Quick chat, say listen we've had some injuries here, we ended up having to re-sign a guy we cut just to get camp arms, that all wasn't really working out and people aren't getting quality reps so we thought Brady Quinn might help us. You're always being evaluated but I wouldn't worry, we know what you bring to the table.

    Or, on the other hand, if Moore's salary versus what he brings to the table really is being debated, you tell him. You say listen we know what you bring to the table and we respect that but in this age where the cap space can be rolled forward from one year to the next, every dollar we spend this year has to be worth it and we're reaching a point where we haven't seen you on the field in a while due to circumstances, we're starting to get nervous, and we brought in some competition.

    Philbin keeps bragging that he's communicating better with the players now that he's tucking them in at night. I agree with Armando that it's time to prove that.
     
  35. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Will Davis, especially given his injury, is right on schedule in terms of development.He was a third rounder from Mountain West Utah St playing a position with a steep learning curve. Lots of experts saw him as a bit of a project but with a high ceiling. Him starting to 'get it' and possibly earning the trust of coaches in his second year sounds about right. Him playing significant snaps last season frankly would've been really impressive. Unrealistic to expect that.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Problem is it seems in camp like Jamar Taylor is still ahead of him. When both players are fighting for, at best, a #4 role...that's a big deal.
     
  37. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In my experience coaches tend to favor steady play vs. upside. While I understand and even agree with that generally if you adhere to that too strictly you'll never develop anybody.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Wait a minute....,

    First of all, there was some awful big conjecture in that piece. Secondly, they cut Devlin for Quinn. That doesn't scream threat to Moore nor does it even whisper a threat. This is pure drama fabrication.
     
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  39. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I like Davis and am certainly intrigued by his upside as a playmaker. But CB is a position where the mistakes can kill you and are hard to live with for long. If a RB misses some holes or a DT loses leverage too often, you might lose or give up a few yards. If a CB gets burned it can be an 80 yard TD. I kind of have a feeling that Davis will never truly get the coaches' confidence here, but that he'll go elsewhere and have a few 5+ INT seasons somewhere.
     
  40. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    @AbramsonPBP 2h
    Philbin on why Jordan isn't getting looks at LB: Only X amount of time on field you have to decide how you want him to spend his time

    @AbramsonPBP 2h
    Philbin says they're still developing Jordan as a pass rusher. More LBer looks would slow that development.
     

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