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Dolphins' view on Patrick Turner

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ATVZ400, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. ATVZ400

    ATVZ400 Senior Member

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    Dolphins' view on Patrick Turner
    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...he-miami-dolphins-view-on-patrick-turner.html





    Coach Tony Sparano endorses Dolphins’ wide receving corps
    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...ps-but-might-have-left-the-door-open-a-crack/
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is the problem Dorrell though. A few of our WRs had good first years with him, then a crappy second year.
     
  3. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

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    I thought the same thing after reading this article. I am not sure how long this WR coach has been with the team, but it sure does seem like we could use a change at that spot.

    First, I remember Ginn being this great offensive threat when he came in the league and all the sudden NOTHING transferred to the NFL. There was so much hype with Turner in the offseason and again NOTHING transferred to the NFL. When do we start looking at the coaching?
     
  4. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Nothing transfered to the NFL because he doesnt have it, its not on coaching, its on Ginn.
     
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  5. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    i was going to say you cant polish a turd :lol:
     
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  6. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    On the flip side, you had an UDFA in Bess who has been pretty good and you have a 4th round pick in Hartline, who has also been pretty good.

    Throw Camarillo in there who is also an UDFA and it appears as if the coach has done a pretty good job with mediocre talent.

    I'd rather the coach that gets a lot out of medicore talent than the coach that can't get anything out of monster talent. That, to me, is an indication that it's the player(Ginn, Wilford, Turner) and not the coach
     
    RickyNeverInhaled likes this.
  7. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    That sounds a lot more like a criticism of the player not getting it, rather than coaching being the issue.

    It's starting to look and sound like we may have a bust on our hands. If we just didn't reach for him though, that's my only real gripe here. Many of the draft experts (Mayock comes to mind) said he was a 5th/6th round prospect, but we took him in the third? That's why I was so shocked by the pick last year. If he busts as a 6th rounder, you chalk it up to a mulligan and move on. But, man...it's startin' to look more and more like we wasted that third round pick last year.
     
  8. DOLBET

    DOLBET Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mythbusters prove that we can polish turds. They did it and turds are very shiny....
     
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  9. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    exactly, which is why Turner will be on the practice squad come September.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  10. DOLBET

    DOLBET Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here is the link :

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBj6PonX14A"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBj6PonX14A[/ame]
     
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  11. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    where ginn would be if he didnt return kicks......we should just sign usain bolt
     
  12. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    i was referring to ginn as the turd :wink2:
     
  13. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

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    I agree that coaching has something to do with Bess, Hartline and Camarillo but I don't think it is nearly as much as most would think. These three receivers IMO (and in IMO only, others may differ) have flourished because they are smart, hardworking individuals who want to prove to all the critics that they do belong. I think much of there success is attributible to their desire rather than their coaching.

    Let me make it clear that I am trying to play devils advocate here. It is easy to praise the coach when players excel, but we hold the player responsible if he fails. Therefore, why can't we go the opposite route and say that the players (Bess, Hartline, Camarillo) are responsible for their success and the coaches are responsible for the failures of Ginn and Turner.

    To me some players just understand and develop easier than others, but I believe its the coaches job to get those who have a difficult time understanding and developing to succeed and thats how I measure a coaches performance. I am still undecided on Turner as we have only given him one year. However, Ginn has had three and the coach still hasn't done anything with him; I would say he has failed with Ginn.
     
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  14. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    Sweet another thread that turns to Ted Ginn bashing!! :pity:
     
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  15. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    about Patrick Turner:
    2 or 3 years to develop a WR
    should see something in 2010
    also
    the development of White @ WR
    coupled w/Pruit & Grice-Mullen
     
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  16. Rdrunn004

    Rdrunn004 Active Member

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    My intentions are not in any way to bash Ted Ginn. Actually, it was more considering whether the blame should hang on the coach or the players when it comes to success and failure. Ginn along with all the other receivers are just an example considering we were talking about the WR coach in the case.
     
  17. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    This had better be a smoke screen.....

    Because if he and the FO truly believe that we are ok with this group of WR's......then we have the wrong ppl in charge.
     
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  18. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    ?????

    Since when did they put White at WR?
     
    GISH likes this.
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your obsession with wide receivers is halarious.
     
  20. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    since they spent a #2 draft pick on him
    & he failed in the conventional offense.
    look to the Slot, WR, WildCat & SpecialTeams
    for this exceptional athlete to be tested in 2010.
    FrontOffice won't just give up on him
    Pat White presents many other options
     
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  21. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    if you think we win a superbowl with our set of WRs......your hilarious
     
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  22. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    As funny as the way you spelled it?
     
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  23. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Where in my comment did I say don't upgrade the wide receiver position. Exactly. I didn't.

    What's funny is posters, especially the ones who do in constantly, threatening to lose hope in our FO if they don't trade the number one for Marshall or find a way to draft Dez Bryant.
     
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  24. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And to top it off, you threaten to lose hope in this FO. How many superbowls did Parcells win? How many winning teams has he built? He knows what he is doing.
     
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  25. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    I agree our entire WR corps took a step back.

    No matter your view of Ginn, his 2009 was MUCH worse than his 2008.

    I thought Bess regressed quite a bit this past year as well. There were a lot of drops and I thought little things like his sideline awareness was weak. After the promise he showed in 2008 I thought this was disappointing.

    Turner obviously never saw the field.

    He wasn't given much talent, but the drops and inconsistent play weren't something we saw from these players just two years ago. Why did so many guys regress or, at minimum, not improve?
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, when you keep on bringing in tall, fast Wr, sooner or later one will be a gem, 6'3 guys who run 4.4-4.5's are not that hard to find.

    My beef with Sparano's handling of Turner is the same one I had about Cam Wake being inactive the first two games in 09, the same one about Ted Ginn not returning kickoffs, that is you have to let young players..play..

    Sparano cut off Turner, Wake and Ginn at the knees, it took injuries and poor performance for any of those 3 to see playing time.

    To me, Ireland finds some gems, Sparano is just to hesitant to turn them loose..
     
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  27. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know if Davonne Bess regressed, PhiNomina. I think the drops were due to switching from Pennington to Henne. After all, he ended the year with 76 catches.
     
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  28. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I love Parcells being here...but the man hasn't won a Superbowl since what...1990? Basically a different era of football, and as an exec, he hasn't won anything yet. So that argument falls short, if you ask me.

    We are in an era where the rules basically cater to passing offense. Cornerbacks are hamstrung, QB's are protected beyond any reasonable configuration and passing offense rule the roost. Miami has a qualified passer finally in Henne, but very few targets to pass to. At least deep.

    Look no further than the Saints and Colts game, the two teams that were in the Superbowl had absolutely no reason to even be close to us in the score, let alone beating us. They did it mainly through the air. Yes, that is on the defense, but the mere fact that they had the ball for such little time yet were able to score so many points should not go unnoticed.

    Ginn's failue to be anything more than a role player at the wide out position should not go unnoticed. Bess and Camarillo's short yardage consistency but inability to be a constant threat downfield should not go unnoticed. Patrick Turner's inability to even suit up should not go unnoticed. Brian Hartline's striking resemblence to Luke Wilson should not go unnoticed.

    Yet, the front office, to this point, has prety much done exactly that on every front. Now, this can all be a moot point if they trade for someone or sign someone or draft someone. But all indications kind of point to them being content to go into another season with the receiving corps we have and relying again on an oft injured tailback (Ronnie) and a guy who seemingly can't wait to retire (Ricky) as their main offensive weapons.

    I don't know about you, but that would concern me as a fan. If things stay the same, I can tell you that I will expect similar results in terms of a win-loss record. And if that were to happen, I think you finally have to shine a big fat bright light on a front office that sat by and let things happen around them.
     
  29. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    He also had a pretty big issue with fumbles.

    I'm hoping the QB switch was the biggest issue, after all, Ginn, Fasano and Bess were all used to Penny while Hartline, who performed well, was used to Henne.

    I am still of the opinion that our playcalling is not putting our WR in situations to use their abilities. Every route seemed to either come back towards the QB or towards the sidelines. Rarely did we see slant routes or guys getting the ball in the open field. It seemed like we were trying to fit our players into a system rather than the system to our players.

    Example -

    WR YAC Avg 2008
    Bess - 5.1
    Cam - 3.5
    Ginn - 3.6
    Fasano - 4.4

    WR YAC Avg 2009
    Bess - 4.3
    Cam - 2.4
    Ginn - 1.3
    Fasano 3.3


    And I'm not calling you out personally on this, but just in general for the whole board, I don't understand why the QB switch had this huge impact on Bess but Fasano and Ginn are written off as being bums. It either affected everyone or no one. We cant pick or choose.
     
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  30. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the biggest problem is not having the seam stretching TE like David Martin. Essentially we had the same WR core as last year minus David Martin yet they did a lot worse. It's why I think a TE might be more of priority this year than a WR.
     
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  31. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with you. I want to upgrade the WR position. I don't know If I want Bryant because of his character issues, but I sure as hell want Demaryious Thomas.

    I just disagree with the notion that if they dont draft a WR this regime has failed us. That's just not true. What if Patrick Turner is the next Marques Colston?

    Building a team takes time. 2 years ago we were 1-15.
     
  32. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    My view on our receivers still stands as is. They are a lot better than people give them credit for.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I believe the DMart situation caught them flat footed, recall they snagged that Te from the Ravens?

    And he had a bad ankle?

    By the time Kory Sperry arrived he barely played, but played well when he did get into the game, and John Nalbone was supposedly a seam stretching te and he was waived and placed on the practice squad.

    So Te could be a priority.
     
  34. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    The three consecutive posts (by Samphin, PhiNomina and Perfect Team) are a perfect example of why I am so proud to be a member of this board, not to mention a Miami Dolphan. Wow...great analysis guys, each and every one of you.

    Kudos gentlemen! :up:
     
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  35. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I absolutely agree that dorrell is part of the issue. He has not coached up our wr's. Those who were already good at certain aspects of the game when they arrived here still are. Those who needed to get much better have not.

    Hagan, London, Turner, even Wilford.

    Bess and Camarillo already had good hands and routes. Ginn has not improved enough either. Hartline came is known for good routes and heady play with the ability to beat defenders and get behind them. Dorrell didn't give these skills to any of these guys.

    We need a great WR coach.
     
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  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same here, imho Hartline can be a 1k yds Wr, and Greg C did not drop a single pass..which is amazing to consider.
     
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  37. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Imo, it affected them all. Still, at the end of the day, Bess had 76 catches. Fasano and Ginn combined didn't match his production. That says a lot.
     
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  38. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    I see your point - I just don't think comparing Bess reception total is apples to apples.

    I am to the point where I consider Bess a more of a RB. Comparing him to the rest of our WR isn't fair. He averages 4.3 YAC yet still averages a yard less per completion. I was running numbers the other day and I think it came out as Bess catches the ball an average of 5.6 yards down field - the next closest is Cam who averages over 8 yards down field. The rest were at, or over 10 yards per completion.

    So what Bess is asked to do is completely different than our other WR.

    So I see your point - but don't think receptions are an accurate representation based on roles.

    (For the record I think Bess still had a decent year - just didn't see him take the next step I think he is capable of. While he had 76 receptions - I didn't think he showed much beyond what he did his rookie year. I was hoping to see some of that awareness and savvy that Welker has - assuming Welker is what we all hope Bess can become.)
     
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  39. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck Club Member

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    If you let Cam and Hartline work the intermediate routes, Bess roam underneath and actually GO DEEP consistently to Ginn; this WR corps could provide everything needed. All of these players have shown the ability to do these things well.

    Instead we seemed to use Ginn on the short / intermediate stuff, fail to get Bess in the open field to use his shiftiness and left Cam out of the plan all together.
     
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  40. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Valid points. IMO, Bess takes the next step next year and becomes our Wes Welker. I feel he can dominate if he has a number one option next to him.
     

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