Agreed. Though I feel the same way about Ginn (and very strongly that a #1 would make Bess, Ginn and Hartline all seem like superstars.)
While I see what you're saying, and I agree to a certain extent, lets keep in mind too that Parcells hasn't won much in YEARS. The game has drastically changed since he did. The league has evolved into more of a passing league, if we want to keep building a tough smashmouth football team that is going to rely on the running game to eat time of possession, then we better damn well boost our D to prevent us from loosing games like the game against Indy, and NO. Also, the comments from the phins on Turner, is extremely disappointing to me. So, it sounds like he's not going to see the field again this year probably.
Exactly. I'm not giving up on Ginn yet. Or Turner for that matter. They both aren't number ones, but they can contribute to this team. Especially with less pressure on both of them.
While that may be true, he still built a winning team in this era. The Dallas Cowboys. They haven't won the superbowl, but they're pretty damn close. Or at least, they were. Then Jerry Jones started screwing up.
Absolutely, the problem is, how do you head into 2010 with "Ted Ginn will turn the corner this year and be a #1 Wr" as your plan? Now add a Te who could be a #1 type option, and things change massively for the offense. But there is only #1 option type Te in the 2010 draft...Jermaine Gresham, that is unless Jimmie Graham is just amazing..
I definitely don't think Ginn will become a "#1" - I just think we need to go deep to him more often. The guy gets open deep - he doesn't do much else - but he gets open deep. Lets use that to open up the field for the other guys. Lets use it to make big plays. I don't think he needs to get 10 balls thrown his way a game - but going deep (not just a streak, but a ball over 15-20 yards) opens up so much for the offense. Hartline and Bess should still get the majority of the intermediate / short stuff. And for the record - I completely agree with you on the TE option. Having a TE draw some safety help or create mismatches only opens things up more for our WRs.
Silly me.......here I thought I was allowed to have my own opinion. Next time I'll make sure to take full advantage of your wisdom, you wise old sage
Pat White failed in the conventional offense? When did he run the conventional offense? He is not a WR until he has PLAYED at WR. Your fantasies are not facts. Special Teams? WTF? Are you insane? Why would we use a quarterback on special teams? Pat White will be lucky to make this roster as a change of pace QB. We don't need him at all. I would not be surprised if he gets cut before the final 53. Not saying it will happen. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised.
I disagree on Bess.I thought he made very good stridesas for all the dropped passes ,Bess had 7 in 2009 and 5 in 2008...not much of a difference Bess did improve over 2008 with 22 more receptions for a total of 76 in 2009. Bess also had an increase in yardage of 206 yards for a total of 760 total yards Only 2 players in the NFL with the same or less offensive snaps gained more yards than Bess...Nicks and Harvin Bess was #1 in the NFL in total receptions with 581 offensive snaps or less with 76 receptions Bess...76 receptions with 581 snaps Jackson 68 receptions with873 snaps Holmes.79 receptions with 1040 snaps Ochocinco.72 receptions with 958 snaps Colston..70 receptions with 850 snaps Mason...73 receptions with 961 snaps Driver...70 receptions with 888 snaps Bess nearly had the same receptions or more with 300 or 400 or close to 500 LESS OFFENSIVE SNAPS and there were plenty of other big name wide outs I could have added to the BESS HIT LIST B ess has been outstanding and has improved since day one and I believe your barking up the wrong tree with your negativity regarding Bess
If you can't look at this WR unit and not see that we're in emergency need of an upgrade...... look harder
awesome post! but i think the difference between Bess and those other players is their overall size, and how often they reach the endzone. You're comparing Bess to some damn good, well rounded #1 WRs. He is not on their level. But he does move the chains very often, and is getting better, not worse. Interesting stats.
Yet everytime this is brought up, you always (never fails) bring up bess' fumble issues. (3 fumbles 2 lost) as a "concern" (he had 0 in 2008) yet when someone brings up ginn's drop problem you immediatley say "this never happened until this season" as if it shouldnt count or something........cant pick and choose bro. ginn has a drop problem this season and its (well thats only this season) bess has fumble problem (2 lost) only this season and its (Bess' fumble issues are really bad!!!) lets get that straightened out my friend
I do see the need for a WR. Again, I KNOW we need a number one wideout. I want us to draft a number one wideout. All I'm saying is, I find it funny how everyone wants to lose faith in this FO if we don't address it immediately.
Well then get off your little soap box and mind your own business This is what's called going after the poster, not the post....FYI And I don't appreciate it....
While true in 99% of my Ginn posts this discussion was about our WR coach and our WR's step back this year. Gibbs drops THIS YEAR and Bess' drops / fumbles THIS YEAR both accentuate my point that this year was the issue. Also, ESPN shows Bess losing 3 fumbles this year (with 6 total fumbles) and had 1 lost fumble in 2008.
This FO hasn't lit the world on fire.....in fact, they'll have to slam dunk this draft to make up for their past blunders If you want to worship them, be my guest..... I prefer to hold them accountable. And so far, I'm not overly impressed with Ireland. A great draft could change my opinion....and I'm not making a final judgment on them just yet, I just expect them to do better.
Like I mentioned earlier - receptions aren't apples to apples with Bess and these other guys. Bess averages 10 yds per catch, does anyone else on that list average under 14 yards? Getting a million receptions is great - but what is it doing for the offense? Passes to Bess are glorified running plays. They are great - and help our offense - but lets not pretend that 70 passes to Bess is the same as 70 passes to anyone else on that list. The guy still has 3 career TDs, comparing him to these guys is cherry picking a stat that makes him look good without looking at the whole picture. I don't dislike Bess - I just think he is overrated by some on this board. What he provides isn't some essential part of the offense. It is a great complimentary piece - but not something that we couldn't live without. Do you think if we put Cam in the same role (catching passes solely 5-10 yards from LOS) he wouldn't succeed? Bess doesn't possess nearly the ability to make guys miss that he is credited for.
Nothing me or ANYONE else has said in this post hasnt been said 4 million times, sometimes I enjoy stirring the pot and getting in the middle of it...but tonight I just dont have the energy. Fact is we dont have ONE better than average WR on this team and it sure would be nice to change that.
Our recieving core didn't take a step back we have some solid starters now in Bess and Hartline and a reliable starter in Camarillo. The only odd man out is Ginn the guy plays to scared to ever be a fit in the slot and he doesn't pose a deep threat because he's so inconsistent and afraid to catch the ball for fear of being hit that he doesn't demand attention. So in the end the biggest problem with our recieving core is Ginn no matter how you look at it. We can all hold our breath and wait for him to get good like everyone did with Chambers for near a decade or we can call it like it is and move on with finding a reciever that can do the job Ginn is not capable of doing. I'd much rather do the latter than the former.
If one running back averages 3 yds and one averages 4.5 but they both had the same amount of carries are they equal? Do the 3 yd avg backs yards count? Yes. But each carry is less valuable than the 4.5 avg back. That is my point with Bess and using receptions as the tell-tale stat.
thats a joke. go on other message boards......i know for one, that panther fans would kill for davone bess. you act like we should have 4 number 1, andre johnson type WRs. everyone has that right? no. bess, hartline and camarillo imo are better than average. We have a number 1 WR....and i have a easy time saying we have a dangerous unit. but hey, not everyone puts up the numbers of danny amendola right?!?!
If your name isnt Brian Hartline you deserve everything you get, Bess's fumbles Ginns drops, they both had underperforming years, I dont care who was drafted where production is production.....or in our guy's case lack their of.
Listen, i know its easy to fall in love with Bess's "underdog" story but that doesnt change what he ISNT, and that is anything special. HEY! You leave Amendola out of this, he will be better than Bess and Ginn in 2011....he's already a MUCH better PR.... not that its saying much.
Hartline has hope...cammy has likely hit his cieling but their is good reason to have doubts about Ginn and Bess.
what are you doubting about bess?!?! lmao. ginn reverts back to his rookie year production, bess tops his rookie year production....iam not seeing the correlation between the two
Bess is special man, if you can't see that there isn't much point in having a discussion. It kind of baffles me how anyone could defend Ginn at the expense of Bess...no matter how I look at it I just can't see it at all.
I really don't think Greg C has hit his ceiling yet Fin-O, 08 was his first yr as a starter and he did great and was headed for a 1k season, in 09 he was coming back from the ACL and still had a good yr 55 receptions and no drops, 11 ypc, in 2010 he should be able to reach 1k and bump that 11ypc average. Ditto Bess, but I do believe he lacks Welker's quickness but is more durable.
Bess had key drops and amechanging fumbles....I cant ignore that because he is likeable and not the #9 pick.
key drops? name em. and his fumbles? ill use the ginn nut huggers defense "this is the first year hes had this problem" atleast he still produced
Where is the rest of my people, I cant battle these Bess-lovers alone? Bess is special? Maybe I drink too much during games?
who said bess was special? iam just saying hes not a concern. or there shouldnt be "doubts" about him. we know what we have. and hes above average.
