If true, all the more reason it was a mistake to ignore the OL this offseason. Even with Grove and before this injury, there was a concern that the interior OL wouldn't be able to hold up to a full season. Thomas was untested and unproven and coming back from a tough injury that takes a while to fully recover from. Smiley was also coming back from a season ending injury and needed to prove that he was healthy. Grove's health is always an issue and it remains to be seen just how effective we will be even when healthy. I think it was a big blunder to ignore the OL and just assume that those players would come back and stay healthy.

So many good prospects passed up :pity:

 

If he'll be healthy for the season, I'll be happy.

 

Theyll be plenty of depth at G available in FA before the start of the season.

 

Lets hope. I agree with L2G, we should of got some help.

 

great. i really wanted duke robinson in the draft too.

 

And the fact that he fell so far in the draft only to see us draft back to back unimpressive WR's is disheartening.

 

This is exactly why I said that while Thomas at RG was a foregone conclusion for many people... I'm not counting on him until I see him play in real games for a few weeks. Not only is he coming off of a severe foot injury (and now he apparently has a torn pectoral that might keep him out of camp), but the guy doesn't have any real experience.

I have my fingers crossed, but... I'll believe it when I see it.

 

In all fairness... hindsight is 20/20, and all that. It's harder to pull the trigger on draft day on a guy who MIGHT play because your penciled-in starter MIGHT get hurt again... rather than pull the trigger on a guy who you believe can step in and help your team. We have no way to know where the Phins brass had any of those guys rated, and a guy you really liked may not have even been on their board for reasons we aren't aware of.

The draft is over. It was what it was.

 

He's a dam good G but he's lazy and that is probably one of the reasons they shied away from him.

 

This really isn't an issue of hindsight, rather it was foresight.

I've said since last year that our OL depth and overall quality of the line needed to be upgraded. And after the poor play and injuries of last year, it didn't take a genius to come to that conclusion. Thomas is a complete unknown even when healthy, noone really knows what we have in him at this point. All of the hype surrounding him comes from veteran players talking about how strong he is, but strength and minicamp hype are alot different than actually doing it out on the field for a full season. Before this injury, he suffered what has been known to be a career ender type injury, one that can linger and one in which you really don't know how the player will react until he's grinding away during a game. So to pencil him in as the starter with no capable starting quality replacement was risky, and now we see why.

With guys like Mack, Robinson, Vasquez, etc there for the taking, it seems silly to have overdrafted luxury players. No matter how good your RB, QB or WR's are, if your OL can't block and give a play time to develop, the offense isn't going to be very successful. One only has to remember the Andy Alleman experiment from last year to know that you can never have enough quality depth along the OL, expecting to find a gem in the trash heap known as late offseason / midseason FA is not a smart way to run a team. Hopefully Thomas can recover in time to get a preseason game or two in before the season starts.

 

We had a bunch of holes in the dyke. We plugged the CB and WR holes. I'm not ready to freak out about the holes in the interior line...yet. We still have plenty of roster moves ahead of us. Some vets will get cut. Some guys already on the roster will shine and surprise us.

 

Everything starts with the OL though, that to me is a higher priority than drafting marginal WR prospects a few rounds ahead of where they were slated to go. Just assuming that someone is going to step up and fill the hole left by an injured player is very risky and more often than not it doesn't work the way you hoped it would have.

 

Maybe the dolphins think Joe Berger is good enough to start at guard.

 

<sigh>

I dont care how much people try and deny it, but the fact is that some players just have that black cloud of 'injury' over there heads.

Players such as those you just cannot count on to play for full seasons.

Thomas (if this is 100% true) is wellll on his way to being one of those players.

IMO Grove and Smiley are already there. Woe is us if we can't find guys that can back up at those positions that are just as good. Because based on their history they are always just one play away from getting messed up for weeks on end.

.....and no its not like some other guys (even though you might think you can say that about every football player) which never 'seem' to get injured....with these guys that have that black cloud litterally after every play your looking to see if they get up ....while other guys (that dont have that black cloud) its more of a shock or a 'oh crap' if they ever do get hurt.

 

It's true. I couldn't believe D. Robinson was still there that late and we didn't take him. We all saw how the interior of the OL was the biggest problem last season. I don't remember, but if D. Robinson was still there when we picked Hartline, than that pick was just that much more bizarre. So...I agree. :D

 

They spent tons of cash, including resigning Carey, signing Grove and signing Berger. I don't think we've ever spent so much cash on the offensive line. Like you, I'm concerned about injuries, but they didn't ignore it.

 

Robinson actually lasted into the 5th round, which is amazing value because he has 1st round talent. Like alen pointed out, he's a bit lazy and that probably turned alot of teams off to taking him in the 1st-2nd round, but the 5th? That's just crazy IMO.

....unless there is something else there in his background wasn't reported

Resigning Carey was a given, I know it was bantered about here how he wouldn't be back, but I think the FO always knew he was in their plans, the only sticking point would have been money.

The Grove signing has the potential to go either way and right now I'm still not convinced it was the right move to make. Brown, who was the cream of the crop at C, signed with STL for just a few million more than what we gave Grove, Brown is by far the superior player so the money shouldn't have been close. Grove comes with a history of injuries and from what I've heard from friends who are Raider fans, he isn't much of a force in the running game. If the coaching staff can keep him healthy and he can be adequate in the run game, it won't be a horrible move. But considering what we could have had in Brown or an Alex Mack, the Grove signing looks bad in comparison.

Making moves and making the right moves are two different things. I think we spent alot of money and are putting alot of faith in players who have a hard time staying healthy.

 

I hear ya. However, I'll stick to what I said before. No one knows where Tuna and Co. had those guys rated. I'll also say that those guys have built a team or two, so if they passed on a guard that provided depth to pick a WR instead... I'll wager there was a reason for it.

It's possible we never had a real shot at the offensive linemen they liked. It happens.

 

Brown is the superior player based on what?

Grove isn't an asset in the running game in the raiders scheme or ours? Raiders run a zone blocking scheme we do not.

I'm not convinced it's the right move, but i'm not convinced it's the wrong one either.

As far as other things; we drafted a backup LT. We also picked up a guard. We also picked up a center. "A few million more" is a lot of money to tie up into one unit when you've got other holes as well.

How much money have we put into Donald Thomas and have it backfire because "he's not healthy?". Smiley seems to be okay & Grove is too. Carey and Long as well.. and they are probably paid more than Thomas. So until I see a one of the higher paid linemen injured and out on the sideline I'm not concerned with what has happened in the past.

We have other guys we can stick in at Guard. We still have FA and the waiver wire to pick people up off of as well.

No need to hit the panic button quite yet.

 

It's not about money, it's about putting talent on the field. Interior depth was needed and we ignored it. L2G speaks the truth... I can't disagree with anything he's said.

 

we got joe berger and jake grove (two interior linemen)... how did we ignore it? at least those two have played NFL downs. donald thomas and even the guard from the draft basically have not. having the guy from the draft come in is just like having donald thomas be in there because neither really have any experience. we also signed mark lewis as an UDFA so we did get a guard. we also have shawn murphy (even though he hasn't seen the field). the best guard from the draft was sitting there for us and we didn't pick him up. i'll admit i wanted to see him picked but there's not really much i can do about that. i wouldn't say we ignored the position in the off season though.

also, we had other holes to fill that were just as if not more pressing (defensive backfield).

at some point it is about money. you can't just pour millions and millions of dollars into one spot on the team otherwise the other spots are weak.

 

Based on his ability and performance, the guy is young and and can dominate at his position. I think it was ck who said that Brown was an elite talent at the C spot and who gave a great report on him, I'll have to dig up the quote, but it's fairly obvious when watching him play that he's better than Grove.

Scheme does play a role, but it can't hide the fact that a player can't hold up at the point of attack, whiffs on blocks and gets knocked backwards so frequently.

Keep an eye on Grove when watching these clips

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...Michael-Bush-Highlight-WK-04-vs-Chargers-2008
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80c2761b

That isn't scheme as much as it is the player

The "few million more" quote was referring to the fact that the Dolphins overpaid for Grove, the difference in money between his contract and the one that Brown signed shouldn't have even been close. If the Dolphins were willing to pony up that kind of money for a player of Grove's ability, they shouldn't have had an issue paying Brown what he was asking for.

As far as the draft, we drafted warm bodies who may or may not pan out. We needed quality depth along the interior of the OL, not just a few warm bodies.

Thomas is on his rookie contract (6th round), he isn't costing us anything really.

Smiley has injury concerns, Grove has only played a full season once in his career (54 out of a possible 80 games), that's not someone who you can say is reliable and who can be counted on to stay healthy over the course of his contract.

If you are going to pay big money, you have to make sure that you spend it on the right players, not just any player. Considering the fact that they were willing to overpay Grove, they should have just extended a contract to Brown and brought him in. Again, the salaries shouldn't have been close.

We went that route last year and we suffered because of it. You need quality backups just as badly as you need quality starters, not just any warm body will do. Satele could have been that player, but we traded him away for next to nothing.

So it's not as much about hitting the panic button on this season as much as it is hitting the panic button on last season and still seeing the same issues. When you're whole interior OL has injury concerns or history, you make sure that you have capable backups in place, you don't rely on some team cutting a player or a late round draft pick beating the odds and becoming a good player.

 

you play football you get injuries
that's why depth @ every positon is important
available replacements for Thomas on th Offensive Line:
Joe Burger, Shawn Murphy, J.D. Quinn may have an opportunity depending on his camp & pre-season, Mark Lewis & Brandon Frye

Thomas should recover from the injury in time to start the season

 

So often? Again, this isn't one or two games, Grove has missed half a season more than once.

Are any of those players what you would consider starter quality? When you have 3 players who are such risks, you need to have starting quality replacements. Not Probowl players mind you, but players who you feel can step in and man the position for long stretches at a time. I don't see that out of that group.

I hope I'm wrong, but I remember saying that last year too.

 

Are there any potential RG's we can still sign?