Dorsey...Dumbest Decision Ever

Past "history" of defensive tackles has NOTHING to do with Dorsey being taken #1.

Defensive tackle is not a "pressing position"? Have you seen our run defense? You seem to be one of the "only players who handle the ball should be picked #1" guys. I'm opposite. where some people want Eric Dickerson or Barry Sanders I would take Bob Lilly, Joe Greene or Merlin Olsen over either of them...

Drafting McFadden #1 would leave me tempted to throw myself off my balcony.

"San_Diego_Fin_Fan wrote:

I can't believe there are still people posting threads for us to draft Dorsey....Doesn't anyone pay attention to the news?????

He hasn't played the past few games because he has an injured back and an injured knee.

Do you people really want a 300lb man with chronic back & knee problems at the tender age of 21?? What do you think he will be like at 26 or 27??? Also, think about it, he couldn't play in the Arkansas game or the SEC championship game. Please give this some serious thought people, he couldn't play in the game where a win meant them having a chance to play in the Nat'l Championship game (which they ended up winning the SEC and getting into the big game) but that just shows this man is SERIOUSLY hurt. Doesn't anyone remember the Tim Bowens experience??? He was an awesome talent but he just couldn't stay healthy.

I don't want to bash my brother's and sister's on this site but come on people, please make some sensible suggestions about what to do with our #1 overall pick. The bottom line is that under no circumstance should the DT position ever be addressed with the overall #1 pick. That spot should be used on a high impact position only and I'm sorry but the DT position is NOT as a pressing position as some of you might think.

I have had some discussion with some other people on here before about the DT position and I asked how many DT's have ever been taken #1 overall....of course people were quick to name Russel Maryland (strong & decent player), and also Dan Williamson (a bust) and someone even broke out Bubba Smith from way back in the day but please note that Bubba didn't play with a 330lb frame, DT's were much smaller back then.

I want everyone to seriously take a long look at our current running back situation.....WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Ronnie Brown is a good RB but he has only had 5 or 6 really spectacular games out of a possible 35+ !!!!!!

I think we have very few options to do with our #1 pick...

1. We draft Darren McFadden

2. We trade out of the spot to stockpile more picks over this year and next but still try to stay in the top 10 so we can get some sort of an impact player.

On the "History" front, you missed perenial all pro Kenneth Sims of the New England Patriots DT Texas...the Patsies back in the day were baaad, and Mr. Sims was supposed to...shore up the run "D"...

And I do agree, Mr. Dorsey is hurt worse then we know, for some, that doesn't matter as he had a "great" 2006 season...

There is a month between the last LSU Game and the Championship game, if Glenn Dorsey doesn't show up and play big, then we trade out or grade McF..

"San_Diego_Fin_Fan wrote:

I can't believe there are still people posting threads for us to draft Dorsey....Doesn't anyone pay attention to the news?????

He hasn't played the past few games because he has an injured back and an injured knee.

Do you people really want a 300lb man with chronic back & knee problems at the tender age of 21?? What do you think he will be like at 26 or 27??? Also, think about it, he couldn't play in the Arkansas game or the SEC championship game. Please give this some serious thought people, he couldn't play in the game where a win meant them having a chance to play in the Nat'l Championship game (which they ended up winning the SEC and getting into the big game) but that just shows this man is SERIOUSLY hurt. Doesn't anyone remember the Tim Bowens experience??? He was an awesome talent but he just couldn't stay healthy.

I don't want to bash my brother's and sister's on this site but come on people, please make some sensible suggestions about what to do with our #1 overall pick. The bottom line is that under no circumstance should the DT position ever be addressed with the overall #1 pick. That spot should be used on a high impact position only and I'm sorry but the DT position is NOT as a pressing position as some of you might think.

I have had some discussion with some other people on here before about the DT position and I asked how many DT's have ever been taken #1 overall....of course people were quick to name Russel Maryland (strong & decent player), and also Dan Williamson (a bust) and someone even broke out Bubba Smith from way back in the day but please note that Bubba didn't play with a 330lb frame, DT's were much smaller back then.

I want everyone to seriously take a long look at our current running back situation.....WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Ronnie Brown is a good RB but he has only had 5 or 6 really spectacular games out of a possible 35+ !!!!!!

I think we have very few options to do with our #1 pick...

1. We draft Darren McFadden

2. We trade out of the spot to stockpile more picks over this year and next but still try to stay in the top 10 so we can get some sort of an impact player.

Ronnie Brown is hurt. Though he's the best player on the team. I would argue that a running back should never be taken high in the draft because of the short "shelf-life," they have. If McFadden were Walter Payton than I wouldn't pass on him but that he is not.

I'd love to have a player of Tim Bowens caliber playing tackle for this team. I don't believe that was a failed experiment at all. Even Daryl Gardner worked out pretty well for the team IMO.

McFadden is the "sexier" pick because he's a running back but Dorsey is the better pick because he's the best player. The team took a high impact player last year and how's that worked out so far?

Look, we all understand that the DT position is the focal point in a run defense but it isn't soley responsible for it. We still need a strong linebacking group, safeties who can come up and support the DT's and DE's who can hold containment during running situations which we don't have at the moment.

A few weeks ago, I posted a thread about a report I saw on ESPN which mentioned the first step the Chargers made to rebound from their 2000 1-15 season. They traded out of the overall #1 spot (traded the pick to Atlanta who selected Mike Vick, and the Chargers picked 4th and chose LaDanian Tomlinson) and we all know how that has ended up so far. Now I'm not saying Darren McFadden is guaranteed to be the next L.T. but he is as close as anyone has seen in the past 7 yrs. Plus don't forget L.T. put together a solid collegiate career while playing at TCU and played against inferior competition, while McFadden has looked like superman while playing on an inferior team against the best conference in the nation...the SEC !!!! And no, I'm not a SEC fan either but facts are facts.

Plus, if we don't take him then the Patriots or the Jets are certain to take him, and do you really want to spend the next 10+ yrs being reminded 2 times a year of passing on Mcfadden???

Remember, this is just my opinion. I'm not saying I am smarter than anyone else on this site or claiming to know more than everyone else but when you weigh the pros & cons I believe McFadden makes more sense.

BTW...how was Tim Bowens a "failed experiment"? The guy played a decade and made 2 Pro Bowls as a middle plugger. I think that pick worked out damnn well to be honest.

Besides, comparing Bowens to Dorsey is ridiculous, they are TOTALLY different players. If you want to compare Dorsey to someone use Tommie Harris or Warren Sapp.

Let's look at the Chargers/Atlanta trade and compare it to the current situation.

1) The team with the #5 pick are the Jets. Well intra-divisional rivalry puts something of a brake on a trade happening.
2) Michael Vick was the clear cut consensus #1 overall that year, who also played at the most desirable position in football. This year there's no clear cut consensus #1 pick and even if there was is after the bowl games and combine it aint gonna be a QB.

Listen if we can pull off a a trade for the #1 overall for the #5 overall + 5th pick of the second round I'd nominate Randy Mueller to be the next Pope. I just have a lot of trouble seeing the dynamics favoring a trade occurring. Especially when teams looking to trade up will probably be more likely to want to deal with the Patsies than us (2nd overall gets paid less than 1st overall and the Patsies can afford to be more flexible in what they're willing to accept in trade)

History bears witness as to the fact that if there ever was a position were greatness was to be found early, it is defensive tackle. Go beyond round one, as far back as Leo the lion in 1950, and you might find a brawler, bow legged type that can clog the middle, but you’ll rarely find an impact defensive tackle. The early to late round equation is staggering really, unlike any I’ve ever seen before, with all of the all-time greats being children of the first round, the only exception being Art Donovan who lasted until the 17th round in 1947. I guarantee you that if general managers took a closer look at the list, the flyers distributed in the later rounds to defensive tackles would probably cease immediately, and give way to flyers taken on tight ends or linebackers, where the late round success rate is much more palpable. The reasons are evident, there are very few men who can take on two blockers consistently, caress the oncoming running back, and get to the quarterback regularly that go unnoticed.

McFadden is a fine thoroughbred, but he’s benefited from AD being a once in a decade prospect, just as Ginn Jr. benefited from Hester. I’ve watched a few of his games, notably the one where, earlier this year, he continued to run hard with his team down 21-0 to Alabama and was the real motor behind the Hogs comeback. He explodes thru the line, and has some scare in him, which is a given for any special running back, uses the straight arm as well as anyone since Priest Holmes. I'd be stunned if he doesn't end up with 1,200 yards next year. It isn't enough for me though, because I have zero confidence of the protruding hole in the middle of our defense being fixed by another draftee, or free agent signing.

As for Dorsey, he understands the game, eats the shuttle pass for lunch, and will blow up most gadget plays. A favourite aspect of mine, and a frequently overlooked one at that be it college or pros, is the relentlessness he shows from the gun to the end. You undress someone like Adarius Bowman, who, during Oklahoma State's embarrassing loss to Troy, gave half-hearted efforts and dropped an easy pass that would have resulted in a score, and you wonder how that will translate to the next level. You take a look at Glenn Dorsey’s legs churning in the fourth quarter, devoid of the Forrest Gump leg braces he had as a kid, and you know, that he is everything you look for in a player.

To recap, the history argument so often used by McFadden supporters, is, in fact, strongly in favour of Dorsey. A mountain full of names from Alex Karras, to Bob Lilly, to Cortez Kennedy, are all testament to that. The injury concerns are puzzling, unless you believe some posters, that they're ''chronic'', based undoubtedly, on their recent conversations with the athletic trainers at LSU. But above all, the don't let the Pats or Jets take him thinking knocks me silly. It reminds me of the Portland fans who insisted on taking Sam Bowie so that the Bulls could not get their man. The Bulls ended up with Michael Jordan, and the rest, as they say, is history.

"San_Diego_Fin_Fan wrote:

Look, we all understand that the DT position is the focal point in a run defense but it isn't soley responsible for it. We still need a strong linebacking group, safeties who can come up and support the DT's and DE's who can hold containment during running situations which we don't have at the moment.

A few weeks ago, I posted a thread about a report I saw on ESPN which mentioned the first step the Chargers made to rebound from their 2000 1-15 season. They traded out of the overall #1 spot (traded the pick to Atlanta who selected Mike Vick, and the Chargers picked 4th and chose LaDanian Tomlinson) and we all know how that has ended up so far. Now I'm not saying Darren McFadden is guaranteed to be the next L.T. but he is as close as anyone has seen in the past 7 yrs. Plus don't forget L.T. put together a solid collegiate career while playing at TCU and played against inferior competition, while McFadden has looked like superman while playing on an inferior team against the best conference in the nation...the SEC !!!! And no, I'm not a SEC fan either but facts are facts.

Plus, if we don't take him then the Patriots or the Jets are certain to take him, and do you really want to spend the next 10+ yrs being reminded 2 times a year of passing on Mcfadden???

Remember, this is just my opinion. I'm not saying I am smarter than anyone else on this site or claiming to know more than everyone else but when you weigh the pros & cons I believe McFadden makes more sense.

I don't think LaDainian Tomlinson is the sole reason the Chargers franchise got turned around. John Butler and then A.J. Smith turned the franchise around. Tomlinson is a great talent but how many playoff games has he won? As great of a player he is that team like many others goes as far as the Qb can take them. When Brees struggled the team struggled just like Philip Rivers now. Also the roided up linebacker Shawne Merriman coming from the Eli trade has helped out tremendously. I don't care if this team has to play McFadden twice a year. McFadden isn't a better back than Peterson was when coming out.

I would argue that Michael Vick before as a player was more important to his team than LT. Now that he's in the hole it's a moot point.

You mention all the positions that the Dolphins have a need for yet running back isn't one of them. Glenn Dorsey is rated as the best player in the country and has been all year. The logic of taking a guy just so another team doesn't, is flawed. Hypothetically the Patriots although having Tom Brady would draft a Qb just so they don't have to play him twice a year.

Alright who gave Jeff in San Diego his Soap Box back?:wave:

"San_Diego_Fin_Fan wrote:

He hasn't played the past few games because he has an injured back and an injured knee.

He's played this entire season hurt, and he's STILL been dominant. Do you really think his injuries won't heal by August 2008? He's going to play exactly one football game between then and now: the national championship game, which is a month off.

Do you people really want a 300lb man with chronic back & knee problems at the tender age of 21??

Since when is being the victim of an illegal chop block into your right knee the definition of a chronic injury?

"Pink_dove wrote:

History bears witness as to the fact that if there ever was a position were greatness was to be found early, it is defensive tackle. Go beyond round one, as far back as Leo the lion in 1950, and you might find a brawler, bow legged type that can clog the middle, but you’ll rarely find an impact defensive tackle. The early to late round equation is staggering really, unlike any I’ve ever seen before, with all of the all-time greats being children of the first round, the only exception being Art Donovan who lasted until the 17th round in 1947. I guarantee you that if general managers took a closer look at the list, the flyers distributed in the later rounds to defensive tackles would probably cease immediately, and give way to flyers taken on tight ends or linebackers, where the late round success rate is much more palpable. The reasons are evident, there are very few men who can take on two blockers consistently, caress the oncoming running back, and get to the quarterback regularly that go unnoticed.

McFadden is a fine thoroughbred, but he’s benefited from AD being a once in a decade prospect, just as Ginn Jr. benefited from Hester. I’ve watched a few of his games, notably the one where, earlier this year, he continued to run hard with his team down 21-0 to Alabama and was the real motor behind the Hogs comeback. He explodes thru the line, and has some scare in him, which is a given for any special running back, uses the straight arm as well as anyone since Priest Holmes. I'd be stunned if he doesn't end up with 1,200 yards next year. It isn't enough for me though, because I have zero confidence of the protruding hole in the middle of our defense being fixed by another draftee, or free agent signing.

As for Dorsey, he understands the game, eats the shuttle pass for lunch, and will blow up most gadget plays. A favourite aspect of mine, and a frequently overlooked one at that be it college or pros, is the relentlessness he shows from the gun to the end. You undress someone like Adarius Bowman, who, during Oklahoma State's embarrassing loss to Troy, gave half-hearted efforts and dropped an easy pass that would have resulted in a score, and you wonder how that will translate to the next level. You take a look at Glenn Dorsey’s legs churning in the fourth quarter, devoid of the Forrest Gump leg braces he had as a kid, and you know, that he is everything you look for in a player.

To recap, the history argument so often used by McFadden supporters, is, in fact, strongly in favour of Dorsey. A mountain full of names from Alex Karras, to Bob Lilly, to Cortez Kennedy, are all testament to that. The injury concerns are puzzling, unless you believe some posters, that they're ''chronic'', based undoubtedly, on their recent conversations with the athletic trainers at LSU. But above all, the don't let the Pats or Jets take him thinking knocks me silly. It reminds me of the Portland fans who insisted on taking Sam Bowie so that the Bulls could not get their man. The Bulls ended up with Michael Jordan, and the rest, as they say, is history.

I agree. A pass rushing DT who is a constant threat to disrupt is a rare commodity. What about those injuries though? And his weight? He's listed at 299 and he'll be going up against 320+ pounders in the NFL.

"thedolphinsmakemecry wrote:

What about those injuries though? And his weight? He's listed at 299 and he'll be going up against 320+ pounders in the NFL.

He won the Bronco Nagurski Trophy this year while playing injured, and it's safe to say that since he's only got one football game left in his college career before the 2008 NFL season, worrying about his injuries is a waste of time right now. (Remember Ted Ginn's foot?)

Dorsey routinely gets double- and triple-teamed in college, and usually beats those efforts to get at the QB. If you project a college triple-team to an NFL double-team, Dorsey's odds of still being able to rush up the center look pretty good.

"Desides wrote:

He's played this entire season hurt, and he's STILL been dominant. Do you really think his injuries won't heal by August 2008? He's going to play exactly one football game between then and now: the national championship game, which is a month off.

Since when is being the victim of an illegal chop block into your right knee the definition of a chronic injury?

Why do you keep acting like back and knee injuries are minor and nothing to worry about? Do you realize that his knees and spine are whats holding up his 300lb frame?

The last thing we need is the next Trevor Pryce!

"Desides wrote:

He won the Bronco Nagurski Trophy this year while playing injured, and it's safe to say that since he's only got one football game left in his college career before the 2008 NFL season, worrying about his injuries is a waste of time right now. (Remember Ted Ginn's foot?)

And Ginn was hurt making a play in the Title Game, will Dorsey even play in the title game?

And it is interesting to note that Ted Ginn of 12/09/07 looks much better then TG of Sept 07, as in much faster and more confident running down the field.

Ginn may be finally healed of his liz francs sprain.

Dorsey routinely gets double- and triple-teamed in college, and usually beats those efforts to get at the QB. If you project a college triple-team to an NFL double-team, Dorsey's odds of still being able to rush up the center look pretty good.

In the NFL?

:001_rolleyes:

"Shifty187 wrote:

Why do you keep acting like back and knee injuries are minor and nothing to worry about? Do you realize that his knees and spine are whats holding up his 300lb frame?

Do you realize that he's been hurt this entire year and has won the award for best defensive player in the country anyway? He has eight months from now until the beginning of the 2008 season to recover from injuries that didn't prevent him from doing his thing.

Please explain why we should disregard the possibility of drafting Dorsey based on two injuries that have not prevented him from excelling.

"padre31 wrote:

And Ginn was hurt making a play in the Title Game, will Dorsey even play in the title game?

And it is interesting to note that Ted Ginn of 12/09/07 looks much better then TG of Sept 07, as in much faster and more confident running down the field.

Ginn may be finally healed of his liz francs sprain.

In the NFL?

:001_rolleyes:

My point exactly. A double team in the NFL means two 320+ pound guys on a guy that's 299. Regardless of quickness, how can that possibly be an advantage?

"padre31 wrote:

And Ginn was hurt making a play in the Title Game, will Dorsey even play in the title game?

Given that he's played this season with injuries and has a month off to rest and recuperate, yes, I would say it's about a 95% chance he plays in the national title game. I would go so far as to say that Dorsey's performance means the difference between a win and a loss for LSU in that game.

And it is interesting to note that Ted Ginn of 12/09/07 looks much better then TG of Sept 07, as in much faster and more confident running down the field.

Being a rookie in a league where everyone is faster has nothing to do with that, of course.

In the NFL?

:001_rolleyes:

Yes, in the NFL.

"Desides wrote:

Do you realize that he's been hurt this entire year and has won the award for best defensive player in the country anyway? He has eight months from now until the beginning of the 2008 season to recover from injuries that didn't prevent him from doing his thing.

Please explain why we should disregard the possibility of drafting Dorsey based on two injuries that have not prevented him from excelling.

The award can be chalked up to hype Desides, I know you are a Dorsey fan, did have the "best" season of anyone in the country on Defense?

Did he have as good a year as he did in 2006? What should that tell us about the utility of the award?

On a serious note, do you or anyone else have any idea of the nature or severity of Glenn Dorsey's injuries?

Glenn Dorsey's health status is only one factor, he is a high character player, the pertinent question (for me) is he is on a team of very good players, if he plays in the title game, who are the Olineman that he will be up against and are they NFL caliber players?

"padre31 wrote:

The award can be chalked up to hype Desides, I know you are a Dorsey fan, did have the "best" season of anyone in the country on Defense?

Yes.

Did he have as good a year as he did in 2006? What should that tell us about the utility of the award?

That tells us that even hurt, Dorsey played better than anyone else in the country.

On a serious note, do you or anyone else have any idea of the nature or severity of Glenn Dorsey's injuries?

Clearly they aren't career-threatening if he can play through them.

I don't think it would be the dumbest decision ever. I just don't believe Dorsey at #1 is the right decision. If we draft Dorsey with our 1st round pick, I believe it should be in the event of us trading down and still getting a Top 5 pick. I believe Dorsey's stock will fall a bit, or be neutral while others climb up. McFadden, a QB or 2 (possibly Ryan and Woodson), maybe Laurinaitus (sp?), and Chris Long will all have wonderful combines and have their stock rise. Maybe Dorsey has that same combine, etc. I just think you have to take a guy that will change the course of your team right away. I think McFadden does that the most.

"Desides wrote:

Yes.

What is your yard stick for saying that?

That tells us that even hurt, Dorsey played better than anyone else in the country.

No, he only won a vote.

Clearly they aren't career-threatening if he can play through them.

So you don't know either the nature or extent of the injuries?

"rdhstlr23 wrote:

I don't think it would be the dumbest decision ever. I just don't believe Dorsey at #1 is the right decision. If we draft Dorsey with our 1st round pick, I believe it should be in the event of us trading down and still getting a Top 5 pick. I believe Dorsey's stock will fall a bit, or be neutral while others climb up. McFadden, a QB or 2 (possibly Ryan and Woodson), maybe Laurinaitus (sp?), and Chris Long will all have wonderful combines and have their stock rise. Maybe Dorsey has that same combine, etc. I just think you have to take a guy that will change the course of your team right away. I think McFadden does that the most.

We will see, it should be interesting to see who we sign in FA.

People with no medical qualifications need to refrain from giving medical opinions.

"Disgustipate wrote:

People with no medical qualifications need to refrain from giving medical opinions.

Good idea, does anyone with any medical qualifications know anything about the nature or extent of his injuries?