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Draft picks so far

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ET7, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I said adequate. Did you make those "#extendireland" posts at 3-0 because you thought he was doing a poor job?
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It depends on how it is used. You can turn anything into a degrading term by context. People who use "Ireland Supporter" rarely use it as, "Someone who disagrees with me." It is used to say, "people who are too stupid to disagree with me because they blindly support Ireland."

    Nearly 100% of the time the term isn't even needed.

    If I call you a "Tea Party Supporter" I do mean it to be offensive.
     
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You said elite. But you did say level (not elite players). So we are definitely talking about two different things. He's had a few play at elite "levels" but I can only count two elite players, Wake and Pouncey. Both still on our team fortunately. But after 6 years of acquiring that doesn't strike me as good. I'd hope for an elite offensive weapon as well. At least one.

    Instead of comparing his record to the whole league. How does he compare to those 6+ years into the job? That would actually be quite an apt comparison. And the standard has to be better than average.
     
  4. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    No. That's not what it's used to say. That's what you're reading into it.

    It's a debate on this board. There is a side A and a side B. Referring to one side of the debate as "Ireland supporters" is just a label for one side of the debate. When I'm disagreeing with not just one person but the entire group holding onto the belief that Ireland is doing an adequate job, a label is needed. If you can think of a less offensive term I'm all ears.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am not an Ireland supporter. I am Dolphin supporter.

    A label isn't needed. It is very easy to see if you believe he is doing an adequate job based on what the person is saying. I have NEVER read a post and thought, "Good thing he put <blank> supporter in there or I wouldn't have any idea what side he was talking about."
     
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  6. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I think it does matter. Yes, unfortunate circumstances informed the decision to let Long walk, but I don't think it's all that unreasonable to expect an above average GM to build and retain a solid core of players.
     
  7. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Not going for Vollmer was a big miss. He was one that i would have liked to have grabbed. Losing Long and getting Vollmer....upgrade. Anyone know what the Pats paid to keep Vollmer?
     
  8. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Really? In what world do you live in where one side of a debate doesn't need to reference the other side of a debate when expressing their viewpoint?

    Let me just break it into the context into how these debates usually happen:

    One poster makes an anti or pro Ireland statement. Several posters agree with that statement, several oppose it. As the debate continues folks use labels to refer to a group of people representing one side of the debate.

    Basically what you are saying is that being identified with a label for holding a certain viewpoint offends you. I support Tannehill. I craft posts supporting him. If someone called me a Tannehill supporter, the last thing I would be is offended. I'd say, "Yes, I currently support him as starting quarterback of the Miami Dolphins."

    Since you brought politics into it, imagine how much nastier things would get on capital hill if a Democrat got offended anytime a Republican labeled them as a Democrat during a debate.
     
    Drowning likes this.
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, I did it because the intensity with which people post about one particular administrator within the organization has grown to be quite the novelty IMO. Nobody has near enough information to actually form a valid opinion on the job Jeff Ireland has done. Its like saying I don't like the new iPhone, let me form an opinion of a middle manager at Apple.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I live in a world where I can read what someone is saying and figure out what they mean.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't think it offends me more than I think it is stupid. I am not a Tannehill supporter, I am a supporter of the Dolphins. Any other label to me is stupid.

    People can easily make the argument without labeling. In no sense does saying someone is a <blank> supporter actually help the arguement. It doesn't increase understanding. People can figure out someone's viewpoint very easy by reading.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The world where you shouldn't blanket everyone on one side.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've seen that a lot. Especially recently. If your position is you've honestly not seen that then I think you're intentionally not seeing it.
     
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  14. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Ireland does a more than adequate job IMO. He consistently upgrades our salary cap, draft picks and dressing snazzy.

    I put way more on the coaching and youth/chemistry. Plus there is the undeniable distraction of playing in Miami. Just look what it did to Jake Long. It damn near turned him into Fabio.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    So let me see if I have this straight: You yourself do not feel that Ireland is doing an adequate job. But you think the other people that don't think he's doing an adequate job are not making good arguments. So you make supporting posts and defend him, even though you think he's doing a poor job.

    Makes perfect sense.
     
  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, I feel that I don't have enough information to make an informed opinion on his overall performance. I don't believe anyone outside of the organization has enough information to make an informed opinion.

    I'm also not aware of any instances in which I've defended his overall performance. I will share my opinion on specific issues, i.e. "Mike Wallace was a bad signing", but by no means should that be considered an opinion on the overall performance of any individual administrator.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've said it for a long time. I think when you get down to it, Jeff Ireland is kind of a C- type of talent evaluator that doesn't take chances and also doesn't hit very big. The biggest hit he's had recently was a Center at #15 overall and those guys are damn near 100% certainties. Ryan Tannehill was a very "safe" strategy, given the coaching hires. It was so Jeff Ireland you could see it a mile a way. He did take a chance with Dion Jordan though, and for that I credit him with bucking his own trend.

    The problem is, he's not a C- General Manager. In terms of roster building, philosophies, communication, anticipation of problems, and even just plain thoroughness, I think he's working against himself. That can't happen.

    The NFL is a competitive, parity-driven league. There was a thread in the Draft Forum recently about an egghead study showing that longer term talent evaluation advantages don't really exist in the NFL. I can certainly believe it. As I said in that thread, the part of the study that struck me was the finding that while talent evaluators are good at what they do, so are all the other talent evaluators. And they're competing with one another for the same talent.

    The lack of significant longer term evaluation advantages should not be surprising within that context, since the NFL is such a parity-driven league. While there may be a few teams in the NFL that maintain long term competitive advantages on the football field (e.g. Patriots), most teams aren't able to maintain that for very long. The same is true of the talent evaluators competing with one another over the correct identification and evaluation of the same talent pool. You're going to win some evaluations and then you're going to lose some evaluations.

    That's why I go back to the other stuff that makes the General Manager position important. I go to the places where you CAN establish a competitive advantage. It's just like a football game, it's hard enough to win without shooting yourself in the foot. Don't beat yourself.

    That's why I said before that the Eugene Monroe trade should be held up as one of the (many) examples why Jeff Ireland should be let go. The Dolphins are a team in bad need of an offensive tackle. The Jaguars took an offensive tackle #2 overall and were absolutely tanking during the season. Their left tackle has one year remaining on contract. You don't know that he might be available in trade? You as the General Manager of a team whose tackles were weak to begin with and are getting beat like a drum, haven't made that phone call?

    Prime example of how evaluating talent is hard enough without negligence getting in the way.
     
  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the distinction matters, as long as it's a comparable time frame.

    What exactly does a quality GM produce? What's the benchmark?

    Here's Ted Thompson drafts:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/draft.htm

    Here's Bill Belichick:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm

    Here's Ozzie Newsome:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/draft.htm

    I'm pretty confident this argument is going to come back to wins and losses, and I'm not sure that one floats real well.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He has. Dude needs a longer extension.

    It'll come after we make the playoffs, I guess.
     
  20. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    I honestly think Rishard Matthews is one of his best draft picks in all of his drafts.

    You get a late 2nd/early 3rd round talent in the 7th. Phenomenal job on that pick. Now only if he would get more freaking playing time.
     
  21. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't agree with all of this but I do agree he never hits a home run with his picks. Which is one of my main issues with him.

    I like what he's done with this roster but I'm not sure he can put it over the top, which is what we need. I think we're close.
     
  22. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I only take offense at anything not negative being called support. There are moves I criticize and moves I agree with. I'm not jumping back and forth between two camps with each opinion. But there are some posters who consistently blame every move on one person. I find that ridiculous.
     
  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nope, sorry to shatter your confidence.

    Comparable time frame is what I'm talking about. I think it's a great idea to show Jeff Ireland vs everyone 2008. Jeff Ireland vs everyone 2009 etc. You do it that way, sure he's average. But a lot of average GMs are getting fired.

    Benchmark? Being able to field a good team. Drafts, trades, FA's. Even when a team is bad, you can see talent there. Chiefs last year. Good group of players, terrible coaching. Easy fix.

    At the end of the day you have to field a good team. Yes, some of it is due to luck. Some GMs inherit a team with good bones and then put some meat on it. Ireland and Parcells took over a team with Osteoporosis.

    Even if he's done an average job ... average just isn't good enough in the NFL is it?

    John Schneider/Pete Carroll have made 888 personnel moves since 2010. 284 in their first year (Schneider prefers size by the way ... kinda similar too ...). What kind of team has Ireland put together? Is it a good team? If so, and we don't put together a good year do we fire the coach? Do we give him one more year to fix the Oline?

    After six years I think he's put together a decent team, with a few glaring holes and maybe not a ton of depth.
     
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  24. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    More akin to watching your shiny new iPhone fall to pieces every year and blaming the guy in charge of ordering the parts. We already blamed the guy assembling the phone once but the phone keeps falling apart.

    Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're going to apologize for bucking my prediction, I think you should follow up with something that isn't pretty much exactly what I said.

    What you're describing should be observable beyond "I know it when I see it". This is completely something you should be able to quantify.
     
  26. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    100 posts. Now i see. Slow down bro. U have a long way to go on post count before u learn that homers read things somewhat differently.

    You are absolutely wrong by the way. Our draft picks are ripping it up like a category 5 hurricane. If you haven't heard of Hurricane Absurd, you're just not a good fan.
     
  27. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'm starting to see some fans who are talking about blowing the whole thing up and starting over. That couldn't be more ridiculous. The Dolphins right now are a borderline playoff team. And as ck pointed out, with Monroe or better tackle play in general, we probably ARE a playoff team this year instead of a maybe.

    We're also one of he youngest teams in the league. Ireland should be replaced if we fail to make the playoffs, but wanting to "blow the whole thing up" at this point would be stupid. We have plenty of talent to work with, a majority of which are young guys. You get someone in here to add pieces around them to get us over the hump, you don't start over again when you don't have to.
     
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  28. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Sometimes I wonder how much people watch other teams play... I think we can compete with any team in the NFL right now unless it turns into a shootout with someone like Peyton Manning or Drew Brees.
     
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  29. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I think people let their frustration cloud the complete picture, which I can understand. I'm pissed of not playing football in January too, but we are certainly not a bad team.
     
  30. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    I wasnt a fan of the Jordan pick, at which time I wasnt even aware he had suffered a torn labrum so imagine my fandom after learning such an important detail on draft day (maybe ireland learned it the same time as i did lol). The logical, not safe, the logical (cuz the fans are so tired of the lack of excitement- cant blame em) pick was an Olinemen. Plain. Simple. Logical. Makes sense. Oline- suffering. Dline- eh, not so much.

    But, i think Ireland struck gold. "Rich, rich boys. We're gonna be rich." From what i've seen (im an eyes guy NEVER EVER EVER a statistics guy) kid has got it. And if hes playing injured when he is on the field? When he gets healthy- woo doggy-"Rich, rich boys. We're gonna be rich." Ireland may not be around to enjoy the spoils but i hope he is and ill tell you why. It means Tannehil will have taken us to the playoffs and now we are certain we got ourselves a QB. Now we're talking filthy rich. Old money son.

    Hilarious last paragraph. I havent finished the * thread * but i definitely will now. :couch:
     
  31. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    He's been sipping the Irish coffee. Now it all makes sense! Great Scott!
     
  32. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Allow me to do the research... No. Thats what the VIP forum is for (plug).

    Here we go. More statistics. Hysterical. I tell you whats hysterical, brother, you want me to complete a science project on what my eyes can clearly see.

    "Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?"

    -Richard Pryor (till this day imitated).
     
  33. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Look at the end of the day the NFL comes down to this: you either win or you get the hell out. Ireland's had plenty of chances and I don't want to hear or read anymore god damn excuses about him being competent or whatever. Kiss my *** with that. He can take his losing record and go back to Dallas where he belongs bringing Jerry Jones his coffee. And I'm at the point where I'm about to demand that the dullard head coach go back to the boondocks in Green Bay where he came from too.
     
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  34. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Fist bump but you lost me at Wallace. If he's a poor technician then its the inept (Sherman) leading the blind. But dont tell that to Reggie Bush cuz he was told he couldnt be an all down back nor catch passes for significant yardage and "technicians" know best.
     
  35. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Missed the forrest for the trees. We drafted injuries. Thats the point. Dont think ne1 is trashing the draft picks. They are not on the field. How can they be trashed?
     
  36. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Forget the other drafts. Keep polishing that one.

    And neither am i.
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You said it comes down to wins and losses. I told you it doesn't. That isn't what you said. You go up and down the roster and grade each one. 10 people will have 10 different evaluations but it's still an evaluation. KC had 6 pro-bowlers (most Peterson picks I believe) yet were terrible record wise. They were a good team that needed good coaching. Hell all they needed on the offensive side was a caretaker QB.

    Since 2010 Schneider and Carroll have selected Okung, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Russell Wilson, all pro-bowlers. Not that the pro-bowl is the end all/be all (Kam Chancellor was iffy last year), but you can't argue that's a good take. Richard Sherman was snubbed for the pro-bowl but he's an All-Pro. An in-season trade for Marshawn Lynch. We'll see how Harvin plays out but if he stays healthy he's a known quantity mostly. Bobby Wagner, the #1 rookie LB last year. Bruce Irvin (although his stats are down this year). Trade for Chris Clemons. Plucked Brandon Browner from the CFL.

    This is draft, trade, FA mastery here.

    This team is almost entirely compiled under the current regime too. So this should be our standard, no?
     
  38. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Seizure. This makes my head want to explode and im sure most of you would be overwhelmed with joy.

    Every time, not just one, two- every time- Tannehil has thrown to him deep he has steps on the DB. E-V-E-R-Y T-I-M-E and do u have any idea how tedious it is to type E-V-E-R-Y T-I-M-E on an ipad?

    He was brought here to get steps on a WR, not this technician crap. You game-plan to your star ability, not to your bullheaded philosophy ( Jimmy J. making Marino sprint for a hand-off). And thats why Belichick is the king and Sherman is a shmuck.
     
  39. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Don't think ive ever seen this. GET EM BOYEE! Sincerely, i could have been in this line of fire and still have been more impressed than upset. Is it the humidity or the heat?
     
  40. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Thomas was a catastrophe when you factor in how badly we need(ed) OL help fast.

    I saw huge holes in the Bills game and one starting RB who could hit them and another who couldnt ( but was still running hard gotta give him that).

    We havent a clue in what we have in Mckinnie, not an even an iota.
     

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