Sapp sounds like a bit of a project with poor footwork and poor explosion.

Conu, off hand, can you think of some OLB/DE types who are say 6'4 or taller and 265 or heavier this draft?

I'm looking at Brian Johnston and I. Francis and I'm struck at how similar they are, 6'4+ and 270+ and have to think they are SLB competition this year.

 

Well, what I'm thinking is they will not spend a ton of resources on the SLB position and Johnston and I Francis, Q Moses and whomever they bring in will compete for the job.

Wake in this scenario is the Will or in competition for the job.

Graham (whom I really like) just does not fit their prototype at the SLB, as you say lack of size more or less.

I looked at Selvie and he does not have the bulk, he is a thin 250.

So far I'm looking at Wootten, Cam Sheffield, Brandon Lang and Alex Daniels.

And let me hit you up with another one, Nick Saban is supposed to be the Defensive Backs Guru, so I'm thinking about Justin Woodall from AL in the 6th rd...

As for who do we go with in Rd 1 or 2, I'm wondering if we go offense in those slots, and maybe sign a UFA like Vrabel to play the strongside for 2010.

If not that direction maybe someone like Jerry Hughes at #43 would be a nice pickup, he also could probably play either WLB or SLB.

 

Waiting on their spotlights. Great job as usual from the Universal team.

 

If Miami goes into the season with only Quentin Moses, Brian Johnston, and Iakaka Alama-Francis as strong side guys, then Jeff Ireland needs to be fired. Talk about getting no impact from your strongside position at linebacker! Wow. That would have to be the worst collection of players for that position in the history of the NFL.

 

Same could have been said about Roth at SOLB in 08, and that is why it is called "player development"..:wink2:

 

I'd tend to agree with that assessment Conu, Sapp imvho looks like he has the best motor on the field, Hughes looks like the most physical player and Kindle looks like a pure WLB, just a passrushing Lb with a inconsistent motor.

 

E Griffen does have a good motor as well, imho he would be a stretch at #12 but I like what I've seen of him.

Conu, what is the metric you use to decide if a player has a good motor or not?

 

Matt was actually a good player prior to the move, which cannot be said about these three.

 

I think Jerry Hughes is the better player right now and could very well be the better player in the long run, but I do recognize that 3 years from now, we may all be looking at Ricky Sapp as a late bloomer and wonder why we didn't take him when we had the chance. To me, based on what I have seen, Sergio Kindle is a distant third to them.

I like Everson Griffen, but the fact that he was an underachiever in college just irks me.

 

Mostly none of the three had the chance to play, Q probably has played the most and he looked good, not great, in fillin duty for JT.

I think here would be a good place to reiterate my philosophy on the flaws in the Scouting process as well as the failure of GM's to consistently recognize less than obvious talent.

Good GM's find those players, crappy GM's cannot find good players when they pick in the top 10, Bill Polian can, Jeff Ireland as well, toss Jerry Reese in there as well.

Imho fans and observers sometimes become far to locked into the Draft as the only manner to find talent, that is a natural occurence however it is myopic imho.

I'll grant for every Lou Polite there is a Marvin Fowler, but why does DBess's story not really surprise anyone? UDFA's and castoffs break through in the NFL all the time, my argument is a good GM has an eye for those players and the Staff's know how to develop them into what they are looking for and Matt Roth had an equal chance with Vonnie Holiday to play SLB for us, they chose Roth based on what they were looking for and it worked out.

Why would players like B Johnston or Q somehow be excluded from that same success path?

I Francis was the #8 DE prospect in 07, Johnston was as quick as Darren McFadden in the first 10yds, Q Moses showed that he can fillin at OLB.

http://uhfootball.blogspot.com/2007/03/pro-day-wrap-up.html


In 07 I. Francis at the UH pro day did everything from line up at OLB to run pass routes as a tight end, yet he was cut so that means he is no longer talented?

 

One thing we will not be able to evaluate with JPP is his mental make up. Who knows if what has been said about him are just rumors, but there are things floating around that suggest he doesn't have the mental make up to succeed in the NFL long term.

 

It all comes down to a core Parcells philosophy: "If they don't bite as pups, they probably aren't going to bite."

I saw Johnston play live back in '07, and he never once stood out to me on the field.

 

And yet, Lou Polite and Cam Wake were out of the NFL, and now they are arguably two of the Dolphins best new players who cost nothing but a contract to acquire, and cheap contracts at that...

I saw Matt Roth in 2007 and he did not impress me either, yet those natural tools did not go away, Roth was coached up and there is no reason why Johnston cannot do the same thing, ditto I Francis.

That does not mean that they will mind you, just that the system is in place to offer them a chance of success if they do their part and it shows on the field.

As the old saying goes KB, anyone can learn to run a route, but there is no creating speed, a player has it or they don't.

 

It would be foolish to ignore the position completely based on the fact that you think these three players have potential. Two of them have been in the league for three years and have done nothing, and one has been in the league for two and has done nothing. You are trying to compare them to Matt Roth, who was a starting defensive end in his second season and played a lot as a rookie. These guys have not started anything since their college days. Moses was a flame out for TWO teams before landing in Miami, and his playing time has decreased in each season.

 

In Q's defense he was cut to make room for a Qb, he was in AZ for a week, maybe two weeks, and the Raiders cut Stryker Sulak and Slade Norris, both players taken around where Q was drafted but they were also cut by Al Davis.

Johnston popped a calf and it effected a nerve in his foot last season which is why he was released, neither player was cut due to ineffectiveness.

Actually Q has always been consistent with the Dolphins:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2007&teamid=17&stype=a&stats=d

http://www.profootballfocus.com/cst...ason=2008&teamid=17&stats=d&stype=r&playerid=

http://www.profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2009&teamid=17&stype=a&stats=d

Does not play much, when he does positive results are shown, even during the abysmal 2007 season Q did a decent job as a rookie.

I. Francis was drafted by Matt Millen's Detroit, and he had a decent enough 2008 season:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/cst...ason=2008&teamid=11&stats=d&stype=r&playerid=

I Francis was a great prospect coming out of U of H, as I've pointed out earlier, he could play anything from NT to OLB, which is why Ireland picked him up, if IF ( :D ) works out they have picked up a great athlete, if he does not work out I guess we the #58 pick busted on us..err...wait a minute..

Ireland "gets" the concept of picking up these athletically gifted players who busted elsewhere and giving them a shot, their problem could have been plain old bad coaching or wrong fit in a different scheme.

 

Same here, that JUCO then one and done at USF bothers me greatly, he had a great 09, well heck Selvie had a great 08, now look at his draft stock.

Big Time College programs comb JUCO ranks for talent how JPP would up at USF also bothers me.

As for J Hughes, Rb's who successfully convert to Lb tend to be good NFLers, for example Butkus was a FB in College.

 

JPP is at USF for one reason - grades. It's the same reason some high level JUCO guys end up at Troy. They can qualify at these schools where they will not qualify academically to play at an SEC school or an ACC school.

 

More than likely, still, staying at USF for 1 season after playing in JUCO then suddenly being vaulted into top 10 draft status?

This from a cat who could not even get a waiver to some place like FSU that claims 80% of it's kids are mentally challenged?

Danger..Danger..Danger...

 

USF has another JUCO guy coming in that would have gone to an SEC school if he could have made the grades. You are going to hear the name Claude Davis this coming season. The guy is a stud, but he couldn't make the grades to get an SEC spot.

 

How would Bowers stack up against this years prospects?

 

Ok after looking at this tape this is what I have to say

first off, the ACC is a very good conference, but FSU had a lot of o-line troubles this year when they were suppose to be very solid there...so much of these highlights come against them if you had not noticed.

I hate highlights of 2 or 3 games...that rarely shows me enough to get a good read on someone, just cause someone shows up for 2-3 games means nothing!

but here is what I got...first off he's more of a hand in the ground rusher, and has much better instincts with his hand in the ground...I understand he switched to LB late in his career, but I see him as a very good DE prospect, with capability to be a SOLB in a 3-4

Positives: He has a great first step and jumps that snap perfectly, when he sheds a block he constantly finds the ball, he has a great motor and I see him run down almost every play, great size and agility (one play vs GT when he beats the OT off the line and sees the hand off, one of the fastest moves to get back inside and make the tackle, great play) he also was constantly in double teams or many blockers hitting him (which means he causes threat and makes people notice where he is, he wreaks some havoc)

Negatives: Although he gets a good first step...in college do they rarely use hard counts (something he will deal with on a constant basis in the NFL, if he can time it right he will have a great first step in the NFL, but very often does that not transfer because they cant read the snap), Too often he got washed out by the tackle (he had a great first step, but the tackle wouldn't even need to touch him, he would shuffled down with him and he'd be out of the play), poor reads as a LB, I saw him sit still for half a second after the ball was snapped (in the NFL guards and tackles, specially on run plays will have popped you by then, seeing you stand still is when they pounce on you and take you completely out of the play), I also saw him get held up easily once the tackles had their arms extended (anyone know his arm figures?), Finally when it did seem like he disengaged from the lineman it was usually due to that lineman finding the 2nd level (he starts at the line of scrimmage in almost every game, that lineman usually would pop him initially and find the next man, not him disengage the blocker)

Analysis: He has the strength and agility to be a solid SOLB, he can react quickly and has a great first step. He needs to be better at working his hands against the long reaches of lineman, and needs to get a bit lower to give them a big pop and send them backwards (he can do that, but needs to show it more often), Finally he has upside as a SOLB but I wonder if he's a much better rusher with his hand in the ground than in a LB stance