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Drafting Dorsey Is a Mistake

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by San_Diego_Fin_Fan, Nov 29, 2007.

  1. San_Diego_Fin_Fan

    San_Diego_Fin_Fan New Member

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    I have been talking to Fin Fan In Cali (John) a lot lately about our draft in 2008 and we both differ on opinions of who we draft. While he thinks a DT is our most pressing need I always tell him there is only ONE player worthy of the #1 overall pick this year and that is Darren McFadden. I believe we only have 2 options with our #1 pick and here they are:

    option 1 - We take McFadden with the first pick and enjoy having an elite back who can tote the rock 25 times a game for the next 10 years. We keep Ronnie because he is an awesome back but after missing time every year due to injuries it is obvious he can't be counted on for a full 16 game season, and let's be real here...if we want to contend for a super bowl at some point how could we count on Ronnie for a 19 game season when he can't last 11 or 12 games???

    option 2 - We trade out of the spot and stock pile multiple picks for this year and next, but we must still try to maintain a pick in the top 10 of this years draft. I would absolutely NOT trade with anyone else in the east and I would hate to see the Jets or Patriots end up with McFadden and then have him run all over us for the next 10 yrs.


    Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Ronnie Brown. I think he is awesome and I would love to have him as our only back but the fact is he can't stay healthy. Plus he will be 26 yrs old in a few weeks (which isn't old) but by the time our younger players reach 25 or 26yrs old (their prime) Ronnie will be 30 which is usually when you see RB's begin their decline. I have made this claim before and I have been blasted for it, but I hope there are some people that really give this some thought before responding.
    Remember, I live in San Diego and watched the Chargers go 1-15 in 2000, then in their next draft they traded out of their #1 spot and took a guy named LaDainian Tomlinson who has made them a contender every year, and he DOESN'T GET HURT.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I agree, the thing about Dorsey is that he is not worth the #1 pick, he's done -0- to justify it, and our offense is just as crappy as our defense is, but we have more eratsz "talent" on offense and it would be easier to improve then our swiss cheese defense.

    And you make a great point about "timing", we need our guys to have the same window of talent, Ronnie has been a dolphin for 4 yrs now, unless some miraculous turn around happens in 2 years, he will be reaching the RB "wall" so to speak of 29, and we will still have to resign him from his Rookie contract to much more expensive contract.

    Use the #1 on McFadden, use the rest of the draft on "D" resign Hadnot, and find a better Wr then Hagan.

    And hope Beck's learning curve is only slightly inclined and quickly overcome.

    We also need at least a new Special Teams coach, as our guy and players are not very good at all, your SD special teams coach is one of the best and used to work for the Dolphins in our 1982 Super Bowl year, I would like to have him here.
     
  3. Phin-o-rama

    Phin-o-rama Well-Known Member

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    ugh, i already fear the #1 holdout thats gonna happen next year...
     
  4. San_Diego_Fin_Fan

    San_Diego_Fin_Fan New Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more my friend. Drafting Mcfadden and THEN concentrating on defense would be the best move IMO. There some people who believe we should look for a TE early in the draft but I think if Peele is used properly he could turn into a fantastic TE. Re-signing Hadnot is crucial as well and yes we do need another WR and an upgrade on special teams.

    I like Dorsey but one other thing I forgot to mention before is that he already has back and knee problems which is another reason I don't think he is worth the #1 pick overall. Plus how many DT's have we seen drafted at the #1 spot who have made an actual difference on their teams?? I just think the #1 overall pick should be focused on a few select positions: WR, QB, RB, or OT.
     
  5. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

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    Ive been sayin this for awhile now myself. Btw sd traded out to get lt? I dont believe so wasnt it tgere own pick?
     
  6. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

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    Very good points. We can go top cb in fa, a tackle andg is needed 1 more cb via draft te wr dt de an lb. We have many needs but for once qb is not one of them n the restcan be taken care of via fa n draft.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Russel Maryland comes to mind.

    "if" there was a top flight Defensive player at #1, then Sure, but unless Chris Long wows at the Combine or Dorsey shows that he is the second coming of Reggie White, then a DT at #1 is not worth the pick.

    Plus seven picks on Defense, and a #1 to boot? My goodness, McFadden would be the cherry on top of the Defensive talent that we will draft.

    And Te's are funny, there is a long list of Te's that were high draft picks that are "okay", and just as long a list of non #1 Te picks that made the pro bowl.
     
  8. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    Tim Tebow :lol:
     
  9. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If we cannot trade down for picks, Dorsey is the pick.
     
  10. San_Diego_Fin_Fan

    San_Diego_Fin_Fan New Member

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    No, the Chargers had the 1st pick in the draft, but then traded it to Atlanta who drafted Michael Vick. The Chargers got the Falcons 4th pick + Tim Dwight and a pick the following year. The chargers then used their 4th overall pick on LaDanian Tomlinson.

    The Chargers also had the 1st pick in the 2nd round and used it to select Drew Brees.

    I only wish we could be so lucky to draft those kind of players.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  11. San_Diego_Fin_Fan

    San_Diego_Fin_Fan New Member

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    Ok, sure Russell Maryland was one out of how many drafts??? That just proves my point that if the DT position was so important there would be many more DT's taken early and often.
     
  12. San_Diego_Fin_Fan

    San_Diego_Fin_Fan New Member

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    Tim Teebow is only a sophmore and won't come out until next year at the earliest. However, we might be picking at the #1 spot next year too so perhaps we might end up with him as well and if we did, WOW that would awesome.
     
  13. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    I agree on Dorsey being a mistake.

    I just don't see it.
    First, I don't believe a DT is ever worth that high a pick, second I don't see where Dorsey is that can't miss prospect. I firmly believe that a fat body to tie up blockers can be had later in drafts.

    Mcfadden as the pick dosen't make sense to me either though.
    Picking another RB doesn't fill any need on the team and you'd be paying two RB's #1 and #2 overall pick money.

    I think Chris Long of Virginia fits the best where we'll draft and makes the most sense out of anyone at our spot. I believe he is that one player that can make an impact on every defensive snap for years. DE's are a more premium position as well. You can't find those as easily as a big body to stand up other big bodies.

    Ultimately, I'd love for a trade down opportunity to come calling but we all know the chances are low for that.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    There have been several taken #1, Dan Wilkinson anyone? Tony Casilas Russel's line mate with the cowboys? John Matuszak?

    All those players have one thing in common, they didn't finish their careers with the team that drafted them and none of them made the Pro Bowl as a starter..

    Point being, they have never stood out and there is only 1 or 2 that could even be called "Special" Bubba Smith was one of them.

    That is in 40 years of the Common Draft folks, DT's are bad bets like FSU running backs or Florida Qb's...just don't do it...one or tow may slip through and shine, but as whole...just say "NO" to DT's at #1..
     
  15. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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  16. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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    top 10 worst NFL draft picks...I dont see any DTs on that list but I do see Multiple RBs...http://listverse.com/sports/the-top-10-worst-nfl-draft-picks/
     
  17. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Theres a simple reason for that.

    RB along with QB are impact player positions that carry game changing expectations.
    Secondly there are MANY more RB's and QB's picked top 10 than DT's, bank on that.
     
  18. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    2008 NFL Mock Draft
    1. Miami Dolphins - Glenn Dorsey, DT, LSU
    Over the weekend, I heard a number of broadcasters say that Arkansas RB Darren McFadden is a lock to be the #1 pick in the draft. With all due respect to those commentators, that would actually be quite unlikely unless the Dolphins trade the #1 pick, barring problems with Ronnie Brown recovering from his torn ACL. Brown has two years remaining on his contract.
    But the reality is that, for the Dolphins, stopping the run has been a huge problem this year. A player like Dorsey would be able to start immediately and have an instant impact in the middle. He is an elite player who has suffered through back and knee injuries and had the guts to remain on the field for LSU down the stretch.

    http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2008/mockdraft.shtml
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Oh please, as a whole, how many Rb's have been drafted #1 and went on to play in the Super bowl or make the Pro Bowl for the team they were drafted by?

    How many DT's can say the same?

    Bubba Smith, Maryland (who didn't stand out on a very talented Cowboys defense, he split time with Casilas, the #1 pick in 1985...who was cut by the Falcons...as was Matuszak, as was Maryland...as was..Wilkinson..as was...Emtman..as was Kenneth Sims (though he did make the SB..)...

    Here is the list of #1's since the common draft started in 1967:

    What stands out on this list?

    How about every Running Back except for Kijana Carter has made the pro bowl, and there team went to the playoffs, 90%of the DT's taken has been cut or never played very well..

    RB's at #1 are a much better bet then DT's, DT taken number one have a history of BUSTING. Running Backs make the pro bowl and play offs and SB..capisce?

    If we "must" go Defense, history shows us that DE's make better #1 picks then DT.s by a looong shot, the only "bust "DE's are Brown and Bruce

    Edited to add, I was wrong about Casilas, I had thought he went #1, but he might have went after Bo Jackson who never played for the Bucs and told everyone he would play baseball, that would make Casilas the de facto #1.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  20. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    wasting our frst pick on mcfadden would be as big a mistake as ricky williams.. we dont need a running back and to have TWO top picks invested in the running back spot is just stupid. We NEED to go defense, and although I favor dorsey, I couldn't really care less as long as it's defense. IF.. IF Ronnie doesn't work out, we have the following draft to deal with it, to not take care of our biggest need, defense, would be criminal
     
  21. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

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    addin salt to the wound dorsey already has back n knee problems. Btw whrn mueller picked mcal while rw was on the team mcal talent was no where near mcfads. I expect mcfad in miami n rb traded for a 2nd and a 4 th although hes worth more
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We have 6 or 7 other picks to rebuild the defense, why reach for Dorsey?
     
  23. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly how I feel Marty. The only way I would consider taking McFadden is if the doctors check over Ronnie and find complications that lead them to beleive the injury has really screwed him up. Baring that there is just no reason IMO to blow the first pick in the draft on a RB when you already have Ronnie with Ricky as an insurance policy.
     
  24. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Dorsey is the consensus number one overall talent on most draft sites. He isn't a reach whatever else you may think about him.

    I mean you may not like him but if the draft was today and we took him number 1 you wouldn't hear a single draft analyst going "What the hell was Miami thinking reaching for Glen Dorsey!!!"
     
  25. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Hell Chris Long keeps tearing it up he might be the pick. 4-3 end, 3-4 end. Roth goes back to part time where it seems he's more suited as a solid spot end. Is great against the run which should immediately help improve the run defense.

    Then at the end of round 1 (since we have the 32nd pick) pray that a solid DT is sitting there. That should really help revamp the line.

    Then hopefully find a solid CB/WR with the 2nd and 3rd rounders.

    After that look safety (A good safety can be found in 4th/5th to provide insurance in case Allen doesn't keep showing he's solid and insurance against a Hill release or Bell being injured again).

    Won't help all the holes but then this team has a huge amount of holes. Also if Zach retires MLB becomes a big need pick to as I'm not a believer in Crowder.
     
  26. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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    You are starting to Annoy me with Terms Like that...Dorsey is a consesus top 2 Pick...It would not be a "reach" to draft him...I get that you like Mc Fadden thats Fine he is a special Player..But dont denegrate What Dorsey has done in his college career because you Like Mc Fadden...It would be Different if the majority of Professional scouts had Questions about Dorsey.. they dont.
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I listed all of the #1 picks, DT's included, the vast majority of them never amounted to even Top Flight players, Professional Scouts had nice things to say about them too...

    And for the record, I'm not "High" on McFadden, I would prefer a defensive player who is worth the pick, Dorsey isn't worth the pick, he wasn't last year, and he didn't enter the draft, he has been hurt this year and not played as well as last season and Magically because we need a run stopper, he is the #1?

    That is a reach, based on -0- facts out on the field...

    "If" Chris Long blows up the combine then I would be all for his Drafting, history shows us that #1 DE's are worth the #1.
     
  28. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Padre, please tell me why taking Dorsey is a reach? I dont understand that at all...Have you seen this kid play?

    The only way I would consider McFadden is if Ronnies doctors come out and say he is gone for another year or his progression at the time of the draft is in question..
    Besides that, I already see Glenn Dorsey in our midsts bro.
     
  29. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I do agree with Chris Long IF he is the best coming out of the Combine...
    Either Dorsey or Chris Long will be our pick...unless, as I previously mentioned, for any reason, Ronnie is a no go...


    EDIT: I promise I can find you NUMEROUS places where Glenn Dorsey is the #1 overall, with complete dis-regard to who is picking where....
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Draft analysts?

    Dude, the play the film, interview the guy, and that is that, a few kind words on draft day means -0- when a season starts.

    Ask Mel Kipper about Mike Williams some time..."snicker" or Carlos Rogers..tee hee..

    Look at the history of DT's taken #1, it's on p2 of this thread, and you tell me how DT's at #1 have played historically..
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Right now, Mcfadden is the best player, I would love for Chris Long to really blow our socks off just based on need and history DE's at #1 workout for the team that drafted them over 90% of the time, it's DT's that just don't seem to pan out.
     
  32. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    I wholeheartedly agree with this post. :thumbup:
     
  33. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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    how Many top 100 list do I have to post Dude ??? those arent MOCKS im posting they are top 100s...so I guess I have to paraphrase for you...You dont like Dorsey so irregardless of the fact that the Majority of the professional scouting world View him as a consensus Top 2 player.. he is a "reach" and because only one of the 3 Dts taken #1 overall was a HOFer that should discourage the Dolphins scouting staff from considering him because there is some kind of "Trend"...Ok gotcha now.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Argumentum populim
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Err..you might be a bit biased....:wink2:

    #1 De's pan out, if he runs Merryman fast, then why not?
     
  36. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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  37. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    As I've said before I'd be happy with any of the 3 Dorsey/McFadden/C.Long. I believe each would have a positive impact on this team. However, if I had the opportunity to trade down I would in a second especially given the defensive talent to be had in the first couple rounds where we could then address several areas rather than one. Although, if we are unable to do so I would perfer Long no doubt about it. Especially if JT is shipped out for picks.
     
  38. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Honestly I want to trade down, I really do. I hate taking anyone but a QB with the number 1 overall pick.... But that being said, if we get stuck at 1 I want the best defender available and that's looking to be Dorsey. Its also nice that the number 1 need for this D with Traylor likely hanging it up after this off-season is a big body in the middle and Dorsey would be that.

    I just hate giving that much guaranteed money to a rookie DT, I would rather trade down a little and grab Long. Would mean we still need to find that NT but we could grab a couple extra picks and still ad an impact D line guy.
     
  39. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

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    Very well said. Also dorsey is 4-3 dt not nt. Unless he goes to le in roths place which i highly doubt. Btw look at the dts taken from 2004 till now how may have panned out? Ngata was a god but why isnt heone now? Rod wright was 1sr rder till onjury but still someone woulda gambled way sooner then us where is the bills dt they reaches on in rd 2 early? Or GBs dt from last yr? Or bunkley of philly. Sorry but dts are biggggg risks. All of our offensive guys r doin well n have helped a lot to already convincing that this last draft waill be the face of this team on offebnse in qb wr/returner n C. We need te wr n rb if we trade brown whixh i expect. Grab a dt in fa we got solai with crazyuyy potential n talent. Mcfad is a game changer we nneeeed that bad. Btw we grab samuels trufant or armasadu (sp) n 1 more via draft n we can blitz again n help the run
     
  40. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    If that was a possible scenario I'd be all for it, I however see Chris going top 5 (likely even top 3) and just don't see a top 5 team trading up to land McFadden.
     

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