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Embarrassing Management Of The 2016 Draft

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by UCF FINatic, May 1, 2016.

  1. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I was working on a draft breakdown of each of our players and was having a hard time separating the stupidity of our trades from grading our picks. That being said, I figured this separate write-up would help me detach myself from grading the players.

    Trade Number 1
    1.#8 for 1.#13, CB Byron Maxwell, and LB Kiko Alonso

    Trade Number 2
    2.#42 and 4.#107 for 2.#38

    Trade Number 3
    6.#186, 3rd round pick next year, and a 4th round pick next year for 3.#86

    Trade Number 4
    5.#147 for 6.#196, 6.#204, and 7.#250

    Trade Number 5
    6.#196 and 7.#227 for 6.#186

    Trade Number 6
    #250 and CB Jamar Taylor for #223




    Going into the 2016 NFL draft the Miami Dolphins had the following picks: (Trade Value placed to the right)
    1.#8 – 1,400
    2.#42 - 480
    3.#73 - 225
    4.#107 – 80
    5.#147 - 32.6
    6.#186 - 17
    7.#227 from trade with Ravens last year for Will Davis – 1.1
    7.#231 – 1
    Total Value – 2,236.7


    After the draft we had:
    1.#13 – 1,150
    2.#38 - 520
    3.#73 - 225
    3.#86 -160
    6.#186 -17
    6.#204 – 9.8
    7.#223 - 1
    7.#231 – 0.5
    Total Value - 2,083.3


    Lost Value of 153.4, which is a 3rd round pick, PLUS we lost our third and 4th round picks next year. If you account for those lost future picks as well we essentially lost a 2nd rounder this year.


    Now onto unbiasedly evaluating our draft picks.... Sound have my write up complete in the next day or two.
     
    DolphinGreg likes this.
  2. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    we lost 153 but gained a starting LB and CB that aren't going into draft value.............
     
  3. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    We also gained an extra 160 trade value points via trading next years picks for a pick this year. That's close enough of a wash for the trade that we made to acquire Maxwell and Kiko. We still lost an equivalent of a 3rd or if you want to be really, really conservative a early 4th round pick based on our moves.
     
  4. hooserdaddy

    hooserdaddy Season Ticket Holder

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    I don't have a problem them giving away a little more to solidify the cb position with a player they targeted especially since it was clear he was there last option. Also u have to consider as much as tunsil was a great pick they never thought he'd fall and that had to change there draft strategy a little. I think they did pretty good considering they picked up 2 starting players with the first 2 picks, 2 starters with trade for Alonso and maxwell and 2 roll players with Carroo and Drake with them having Carroo ranked as the 2nd best WR in draft and I have a feeling were going to see him on the field more than Stills.
     
    Unlucky 13 likes this.
  5. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    If these players all become contributing players for the Dolphins I will say it's worth it. Over the last ten years, we wasted so many picks on players who brought nothing to the table. I will be happy if we get some long term players out of it..

    Also with our first pick, we got 3 STARTERS.. a third round pick doesn't an equal starter anymore so I think we did well overall. I'm worried about #2 pick but Ill give the coach and GM a few years before I call for their heads.
     
  6. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    the original attempt was trading up to get jack, but he was picked so they went with howard.
     
  7. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    As far as the Howard trade up I think it's pretty clear they were leaping the Bears after they couldn't trade up for Jack. The Bears traded back right after and drafted 3 corners. It was a seller's market in that 2nd round. Nobody but the Ravens was moving out of that early portion so they held the power. Simple as that. Miami desperately needed a corner with a very good shot at starting and Howard was the last guy in that group that fit their scheme.
     
  8. hooserdaddy

    hooserdaddy Season Ticket Holder

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    I think your misunderstanding yes there first choice was jack a top 5 pick if not for his injury who wouldn't want him and was trying to trade up to get him when the asking price was too much they traded up to get there next choice which fit a big need at cb and needed to beat other teams like the bears. You seem to think we made a trade for Jack didn't get him and got stuck because we already made a trade and took Howard instead which is mistaken if that's what u think happened. Clearly we made the trade up shortly after Jags picked and Jack was off the board because we knew teams after KC but before us targeted Howard too or didn't want to risk losing him and was willing to give up some picks to move up and fill one of our biggest needs
     
  9. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You keep saying we lost a third next year essentially, but we're going to be getting an extra third and likely not as compensatory picks because of losing Vernon and others

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk... ignore the typos!
     
  10. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    Sometimes you are willing to pay a little more to get exactly what you want. It's their show, all we can do is sit back and see how it plays out bro.
     
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  11. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    "embarrasing" is over embellishing what actually happened IMO. The only thing that matters is whether these players make impact or not. If they make high impact, then losing a couple of mid-round picks is worth it. If they don't make impact, then yes, it was a poor gamble.
     
    number21 and Finster like this.
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Oh no?! Not the holy grail of the trade value chart. Surely that is something every team uses in a vacuum and follows like holy gospel. We're so ****ing stupid and should definitely be embarrassed. :rolleyes:
     
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  13. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Yep if these turns out to be a good draft no one is going to look back and go but but but the trade chart!
     
    number21 likes this.
  14. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    My issue with your argument is that it seems like its all based on the supposed point value of each pick.

    Lets say you got shafted 30 points of trade value....but the player you got in return ended up a Pro Bowler?

    Im not saying the players we got are pro bowlers...but in a game like football I dont know how you look so blindly at the points.

    Now that being said...I understand thats how you guys who are draft (geeks)...meaning you love the draft and the strategies that go along with it...will definitely look at our draft differently then say someone like me who just pretty much looks at the players we got. Your not the only draft scholar to feel this wasnt a good draft for the Dolphins.
     
  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    If Howard was in fact far and away their best player left at CB, then I totally understand the trade. They almost had to do it. Similarly, if they felt that Carroo was a 2nd round talent sitting there at the end of round three, then moving up to get him at that point is justified. I've even read that they thought he was the second best WR in the draft class, though that was just relayed from another poster on the board.

    In the end, if the players are high quality and fit what the coaches want to do, the trades are good ones, even if the team gave up more than they seem to have needed to. The grades that we as fans see on the players aren't necessarily the same ones that the Fins front office had on them.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  16. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Luckily, the trade value chart is ancient and out of date. Trade value "points" don't give you any extra wins during the year. Going after the guys you want instead of settling for better "value" guys is a much better strategy. Scheme is more important than value.
     
    number21 likes this.
  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This is a fair point to make, but worth noting this is based entirely on extrinsic value.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jmo but if our scouting staff had carroo as the 2nd best receiver in the draft that worries me
     
  19. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

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    What kills me, is people think a draft is bad because a team does not pick who they like or think they should pick. The draft is a gamble in and of itself. With a new system I am sure they went after players they believe fit what they are looking for. Chill out guys, I remember people groaning about the JT pick, and no one saw ZT coming in the 5th. Let this play out before you go slice your wrists...
     
  20. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    It definitely wasn't an efficient draft, they were playing free and lose with their picks;

    Pre-draft trade worked out extremely well, but through none of their doings, Tunsil just fell to them, we have to see just what kind of "starters" Max and Kiko turn out to be, but getting Tunsil probably washes it all, no matter what happens with those 2.

    Trading a 4th round pick to move up 4 spots in the 2nd is a gamble, no way around that, it just is, so now the onus is on Howard to be worth it, which is the reason that I am against doing that philosophically speaking, because it puts more pressure on the player himself.
    The bottom line is, Howard HAS to become a GOOD starter for this to be worth it, if he does not live up to that then it was stupid, they planted a flag with that move.

    Trading 3 picks to get into the 3rd again is the same thing, a flag planting move, the player HAS to be a GOOD starter, that was basically a 4 pick swing, two 3rds, a 4th and a 6th, the sting of which shall be felt at next years draft when some team will be drafting players in the 3rd and 4th rounds with (from the Dolphins) next to it.
    If Carroo has not done that well, or has not shown great promise, that little gray parentheses will look like it's blinking neon red, (stupid Dolphins).

    Trading out of their 5th was stupid imo, they got out done by who, yes, that's right folks, out done by everyones favorite cheaters, our hated rivals made us look amateurish, I hope they learned their lesson.

    Trading up for Grant was a good move imo, and also trading Taylor, I think both moves were well done.

    Bottom line, they put their collective @sses on the line in this draft, if it works out they look like geniuses, making bold moves to get their guys, if it doesn't they look like idiots, squandering picks for pipe dreams, only time will tell.
     
  21. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    The trading of a fourth rounder puts no pressure on him outside of a bunch of angry, overreacting fans.
    He's a second round pick which means he is expected to be come at the very least a good starter. The pressure is on the GM and Tannebaum to build a good team through the draft, roster management and free agency. It's their responsibility to determine value of played and prospects and what resources they are willing to risk to get them.

    Obviously, our guys felt the value was there to warrant giving up the 4th rounder to get the guy they wanted. You either trust the new regime and the new direction they are going or not. It's clear that many in our fanbase do not.
     
    mroz likes this.
  22. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I dont agree but admire the effort you made to substantiate your point of view .I wish more members would do that.

    I think our draft choices were made to fit a scheme that the new coaching staff wants to implement .

    On offense the scheme is to create mismatches and they accomplished that .

    On defense they want tallish and strong DBs which is probably the reason they favored Howard over Alexander...my choice .They want to change the soft Philbin defensive culture and become tougher.

    Yes perhaps they panicked when they did not have the ammunition to draft Jack and when they suspected the Bears were going to take Howard.....who probably was the last DB that fit their scheme...
    No one is perfect and this was the new GMs first time.
     
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  23. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Do you know why the trade value chart is ancient? It is because it was overvaluing the cost (point wise) to get a deal done. In that sense, that makes our moves in the draft look even worse than they do based on the trade value chart.
     
  24. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The player is not an automaton however, he does know that the team went out on a limb for him, thereby putting more pressure on him, they put a 1st round value on him when they traded that 4th round pick to get him, so he's not just a 2nd round pick.

    The onus is on the FO and the player, the pressure is mostly on the player, the FO is just hoping they choose right, the player has to prove they were right.
     
  25. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I think everyone is taking a stance against this thread in order to defend our draft and they players we took. That being said, I am not questioning the players we selected or why we took said players. I am merely pointing out the fact that the Dolphins overpaid to move up in this draft and then got underpaid in order to move back in the draft. A lot of the moves we made were highly questionable in that sense. We should have picked up a 6th or so in the Ravens deal instead of just giving them our 2nd and 4th rounder in order to make the deal more fair. Additionally, we should have waited until we were on the clock instead of trading our 5th round pick to the Patriots for less than the pick was worth. Two blatant miscues during the draft, that said, if our players pan our all is well. I just hope we do a better job moving around the draft next year.
     
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  26. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Honestly i think their strategy changed with being able to pick the LT of the future.. Then Jack kept dropping and the strategy changed again. My only complaint is the last couple of picks made no sense they must have really not liked the CB's and LB's left.
     
    CrunchTime likes this.
  27. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I think they may have wanted to tie up certain players so they wouldnt have to compete for them in an open UDFA market.
     
  28. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    not me, I remember watching film on Taylor after he was drafted and it was like HOLY **** he gets around that corner quick.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Me either. I'm wrong a ton, but I was a HUGE ZT fan when he was in college, and I watched Jason play when he was at Akron and went into that draft hoping that we could get him too.
     
  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Agree on that, I was pumped about JT and ZT, and neither was on my radar.
     
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  31. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Not to be smart. I legit don't know how important the TVC is to GMs
     
  32. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Did I miss something or did we not draft the top overall prospect on most boards with our 13th pick, and we traded back months ago. An hour before the draft there was no way Tunsil was going to be there at 8 which was our original position. We got him at 13. Just on our first round alone we won the draft IMO.
     
  33. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    The most embarrassing part of the Fins draft was the failure to seal the deal in the 2nd round to move up to take Myles Jack.
     
  34. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    The way Grier said it, and the media is spinning things, it sounds like the dolphins traded up before Jack was picked, just not far enough bc other teams were turning them down and they got as far up as they could and just hoped he'd make it there. IDK doesn't matter now. we have what we have time to let the coach work with it.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The reason why I came to peace with moving down and acquiring Kiko and Maxwell is because I felt that there were only a few blue chip prospects in this draft and we weren't gonna get one at 8, so if they had all these evals in at that time it makes sense to drop..then, we got Tunsil for free, because some old white people couldn't recognize what they saw in a pic from two years ago...they panicked we didn't, and we hit two home runs with those dynamics..


    We should of got Jack, no question about it, he was the first guy on our board, we shouldn't of waited...that one hurts..

    Im not sold on Howard yet, but passers only posted a 32 qbr on him, he just loses the deep ball battle too much.

    I like the drake pick for this coach.

    I was confident and had targeted Jakeem Grant so I didn't think we needed to go Carroo, wanted to take Justin Simmons and joe schobert real bad all offseason..

    but..we have to remember the four def starters that we signed this offseason..

    Carroo does fit a need for next year when stills probably departs, I just thought we could go in a different direction and just deal with stills for another year..
     
    gilv13 likes this.
  36. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I can live with not getting Jack. Before his injury he was a can't miss guy. Now he's hoping to even be able to play a down this season, and even then, last a whole season.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm sick about it..
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Everyone is fuming about Jack...until he has to have surgery before his first contract is up. If his knee doesn't crap out, everyone will look silly for passing on him.
     
  39. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I know I wanted Jack. And I wished they traded back into the first round to grab him, surgery or not.
     
  40. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not hating on the Howard pick at all. I think he would have went around where we selected him regardless if it was us or them.

    I wouldn't have cared if we overpaid to move up for Jack. In my opinion, that makes our team better, and gets our fanbase excited for the upcoming season. Like you said, that's 2 homerun picks in a row. I don't care if there a chance Jack only plays out 1 contract. Its more than we've been doing with our draft picks anyway.

    If our first 2 picks were Tunsil and Jack, then no matter what else we did there on out, it would have been an A+ draft.
     

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