ESPN Scouts Inc. Top 200 - QB's and Our Bookends

The Aqua Crush · Aug 25, 2010

Henne graded out at 77.

Sanchez at 66.

Pennington at 70.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/scouting/_/position/8

Without Insider:

#28 Sanchez:

Comment: Sanchez has good size, strength and athleticism for the quarterback position. He had an up-and-down 2009 rookie season. Sanchez has the raw talent and mental makeup to be a successful quarterback in the NFL but needs a good supporting cast to progress in 2010. Sanchez has enough arm strength to make all the throws, but he can't power the ball into tight windows. He has solid mechanics and shows natural ability to anticipate and adjust to make effective passes. Sanchez moves well in the pocket to avoid and improvise but isn't a threat making big plays with his legs.
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#16 Henne:

Comment: He possesses excellent size for the position. Henne shows excellent arm strength to make all the throws. Henne can zip the ball into the deep outs and into the deep curls. He's an average athlete when throwing outside the pocket. He is much more accurate and comfortable throwing from the pocket. He plays with excellent poise and leadership. Henne's on the verge of ascending into a solid No. 1 starter.
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#22 Pennington:

Comment: Pennington was injured early in the 2009 season and his status for 2010 is uncertain. He has good size with above average arm strength and athleticism. He can still get the ball deep but has to set and feet and step into his throw to be effective. He can't power the ball into tight windows and has less chance for error when throwing into traffic. Pennington is one of the most accurate passers in the league and understands his limitations as a quarterback. He can slide and make effective throws downfield but lacks the speed and quickness to be a threat running the ball. Chad is an instinctive quarterback who knows when to get rid of the ball and rarely forces it into coverage. Pennington has leadership qualities with years of experience that should be invaluable to building a team as well as bringing the young Dolphins signal callers along. His skills are clearly diminishing and his previous injury will be a concern for which ever club may consider signing him in 2010.
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Just Sayin' (as Crunch would eloquently put it) :lol:

Offensive Tackles

#2 Jake Long - 89 (Same grade as Clady)

Comment: He is one of the premier left offensive tackles in the NFL. There was some concern about whether Long would be athletic enough to hold down the left tackle spot, but he has proven to be a good athlete for the position. He shows the ability to slide his feet and maintain contact with pass-rushers. He shows quick hands to counter. He has strong hands and once he locks on it is over. Long is physical in the run game. He can lock on and power block drive the defender at the point of attack. He does a nice job adjusting to moving targets in space. He is a player who does not have any visible holes in his game.
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#7 Vernon Carey - 82

Comment: He is the most versatile offensive lineman on the Dolphins roster because he has played four positions at one point or another. Carey has settled in well at the right tackle spot. He possesses a nice combination of size and strength for the position. He is a good overall athlete. He has left tackle-quality feet and athleticism. He does a good job of protecting the edges in pass protection and adjusts well versus double moves. Carey will ride the defender wide and allow the QB to move up into the pocket. He plays with good leverage in the run game. He is a solid player on an underrated offensive line.
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Scouts Inc. over at ESPN grades our backup better than the Jests starter, to me that shows great depth at the position, and we have 2 of the top 7 rated Offensive Linemen in the league. Man our line is starting to get a good brand attached to them.

Enjoy.

rafael · Aug 25, 2010

How did they grades our centers? The reason I ask is that on a per snap basis they were #2 and #3 on PFF behind Mangold.

Also what about Marshall, Brown and Williams? If you don't mind. Thanks.

Bpk · Aug 25, 2010

Thanks. Good stuff.

Don't entirely agree with this statement about Henne:

He is much more accurate and comfortable throwing from the pocket.
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While he is NOT a mobile QB by any means, he has very good accuracy when he rolls to his right. He is HORRENDOUS when he rolls left, however.

Regarding the O-linemen, I'm concerned about Vernon Carey' health. He seemed to have a tender back after the play where he got slammed onto it against Jax. Someone else on here mentioned he has a back problem, I think? I also, for the second year, think he still looks a bit sloppy and not in great condition... but maybe that's just because I want every lineman to look like Jake Long or Jake Grove. The belly hanging out and the swayback (meaning weak core muscles, making you prone to lower back injury) are worrisome to me. Not sure he makes it through the season.

Hope I'm wrong, becauase when healthy this may be the best O-line in the NFL! Especially with John Jerry coming on!

The Aqua Crush · Aug 25, 2010

rafael said:

How did they grades our centers? The reason I ask is that on a per snap basis they were #2 and #3 on PFF behind Mangold.

Also what about Marshall, Brown and Williams? If you don't mind. Thanks.
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No problem Rafael. Clearly they have their opinion and when grading players across positions or the league all can vary depending who is doing the grading and how they are doing it.

I find ESPN Scouts to be fairly obvious, miss on some small items about a player but generally have a good feeling for players. I think they down grade a player who doesn't play due to injury. Seems to be the way they graded Grove and Ronnie. Say if ronnie finished 16 games last year, i bet he would be much higher. But injured 2 years in a row dropped him in their rankings.

Here you go...

Centers

Mangold - Number 1

#20 - Among NFL Centers - Jake Grove - 67

Comment: Grove was traded a few years ago to Miami from Oakland but was never able to become the full-time starter at the center position. He is more athletic then physical. He is a guy who has to play on the edge and work his blocking angles. He struggles to anchor versus power defensive tackles. He will get walked back into the QB versus the bull rush. He is a smart player who takes solid angles in the run and passing game. He is not as physical as you would like him to be inside, that is his biggest deficiency.
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ONly Grove Listed.

WR's

#7 - Among NFL WR - Brandon Marshall - 88

Comment: Marshall has become one of the NFL's elite receivers. He has the size and bulk to screen opponents from the ball and has the receiving radius to go up and high point the ball when in a crowd. He has learned how to read coverages and does a good job of settling in to the open scenes to provide a good target to his quarterback. He builds to speed more than being explosive but eats up a lot of ground with his long stride and manages to find a way to get behind defenders. He still needs some work on his short routes and setting opponents up for his break, but even when covered he generally comes down with the ball. If he manages to get behind the secondary, he has enough speed to take it all away
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# - 66 - Greg Cammarillo - 66

Comment: He possesses good size and strength for the position. Camarillo is a good but not great athlete for the position. He plays with good balance and agility and plays the game under control. He does not have top-end speed and is more quick than he is fast. A possession receiver, Camarillo is an excellent route runner who can separate because he can plant and cut well at the top of his patterns. He is not a real threat after the catch. He is a good down field blocker. He is a tough and competitive receiver who wins by being precise in everything he does.
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#84 - Bess - 63

Comment: Coming off his best season as a pro, Bess is a short receiver who possesses good quickness. He is a player you want to get the ball to quickly because Bess can make plays with the ball in his hands after the catch. He is not the type of receiver who has the top end speed to just run by people. Bess improved in his second season as a route runner but still is not where he needs to be. He can cut off some routes early or too late. He is a young receiver with good upside.
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#84 - Hartline - 63

Comment: He is coming off a solid rookie season that saw him catch 31 balls as a backup. He has good hands. Hartline shows the ability and body control to catch and adjust to balls outside his frame. He does not have great top end speed but plays a little faster then he looks and times. For a rookie, Hartline was a polished route runner. He does a nice job of getting out of his routes with quickness. He does not show a lot of wiggle with the ball in his hands.
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RB's

#31 - Ronnie - 72

Comment: Brown was on his way to another solid season before a foot injury forced him to miss the last seven games of the season. While not a burner, Brown shows good initial burst and quickness when pressing the hole between the tackles. He runs with good balance and agility and can make the first defender miss at the line of scrimmage. Brown is a versatile player who catches the ball well out of the backfield. He is a solid starter.
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#14 - Ricky - 77

Comment: He is coming off a solid 2009 season and says that 2010 will be his last year in the NFL. As a runner, Williams possesses excellent balance and body control. He runs with excellent leverage and bounces off a lot of potential tackles. He does not have great top end speed but possesses good foot quickness. He shows soft hands coming out of the backfield. He has to do a better job of taking care of the ball in 2010.
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The Aqua Crush · Aug 25, 2010

Bpk said:

Thanks. Good stuff.

Don't entirely agree with this statement about Henne:

While he is NOT a mobile QB by any means, he has very good accuracy when he rolls to his right. He is HORRENDOUS when he rolls left, however.

Regarding the O-linemen, I'm concerned about Vernon Carey' health. He seemed to have a tender back after the play where he got slammed onto it against Jax. Someone else on here mentioned he has a back problem, I think? I also, for the second year, think he still looks a bit sloppy and not in great condition... but maybe that's just because I want every lineman to look like Jake Long or Jake Grove. The belly hanging out and the swayback (meaning weak core muscles, making you prone to lower back injury) are worrisome to me. Not sure he makes it through the season.

Hope I'm wrong, becauase when healthy this may be the best O-line in the NFL! Especially with John Jerry coming on!
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Ya BPK, Scouts Inc. as i mentioned miss on some items such as Henne's accuracy when out of the pocket. Little details we know inside and out from analyzing one team or player like we do.

They typically get a general feel, state more than the obvious, hit on some finer details and miss on others. I also think they did that with Brandon Marshall. Something about his blocking being Ok but not great. If his blocking isn't great i dont know what the hell is good blocking for a WR

The Aqua Crush · Aug 25, 2010

This one is for Padre...65 rating.

Comment: Wake is a young backup OLB who comes in and plays on passing downs. Joining the Dolphins after an outstanding stint in the Canadian Football League, Wake had a solid NFL rookie season in 2009. He recorded 5.5 sacks as a part-time player. He shows good first-step quickness and explosiveness. He shows the ability to play on the edges and has good closing burst once he turns the corner. For a young player, he uses his hands well to counter blocks. He is a young outside pass rushing linebacker who has excellent upside.
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The lower down the rankings, the less detail and more vague the comments.

They are what they are though, opinions and rankings.

The Aqua Crush · Aug 25, 2010

Dansby - 85

Comment: Dansby is a quality linebacker who has been a mainstay for the Cardinals since being drafted in the second round of the 2004 draft. He has prototypical size and speed for the position but is somewhat limited due to some tightness in his hips that make it difficult for him to man up on the more athletic tight ends in the league. He shows good lateral range and does a good job of using his hands to ward off and keep his legs free when scrapping to the hole. He hits with authority both when neutralizing blocks as well as when tackling the ball carrier. He can fit in either a four or a three linebacker scheme and as enough athleticism to play on the outside or the inside.
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Randy Starks - 79

Comment: Starks has played in all 32 games since joining the Miami Dolphins and his production improved last season. He is a versatile nose tackle who can play one- or two-gap concepts based on what they ask him to do on any given play. He is not a prototypical hold-the-POA nose tackle. He is a much better player when playing on the edges and penetrating and trying to disrupt. He is good pass-rusher who uses his hands well. He shows a good arm-over swim move. He is a guy you want to slant in the run game. He is a solid starter.
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Vontae - 75

Comment: Davis is a scrappy corner who worked his way into the starting lineup and had a solid season on the Miami defense. He has average height but is a well-built player who plays bigger than his size. He does a nice job in block protection to get off blocks and make tackles in the run game. He shows good zone instincts in coverage and, for a young corner, reads routes well when playing off. He does a nice job of planting and coming forward. Davis has smooth hips and can flip well but does not have great speed or burst once he is in the trail position. He is a good, young zone corner.
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Smith - 68

Comment: He is a tall corner with good size and long arms. Smith has the height to match up with the taller and bigger receivers in the NFL. He does a nice job of playing the ball down the field over the top because he can go up and high point the ball to get deflections. He is a little stiff when he has to flip his hips and run. Smith shows good straight-line catch-up speed once he gets his hips turned. He is better in man than in zone coverage. He will get better in zone once he sees more routes and starts to understand route concepts. He has excellent upside for the position
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Lousanka Polite - 63 (Ranked with RB's not FB's for some reason. Definitley takes credit away from whoever scouted him)

Comment: He is a short and well-built player -- a good athlete for the position. Polite is more of a straight-line runner with limited wiggle in the open field. He does show the ability to adjust to balls outside his frame as a pass-catcher. Polite is a good lead blocker who plays with very good knee bend. He can adjust his blocks out on the edges, which is key in the Wildcat offense. He is a solid starter.
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The numbers on these ones are their overall grade, not ranks among NFL'ers

Carpenter - 70

Comment: Carpenter had an excellent 2009 season, converting on 25 of 28 FG attempts. The Miami offense needs to get him more opportunities in 2010 as he is a big weapon. He has big-time leg strength. He can drive the ball from 50-plus yards with ease. He has a smooth kicking motion and is solid mechanically. He is effective on kickoffs. He has the physical tools to be an outstanding NFL placekicker.
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Langford - 67

Comment: Langford is basically a two-down player and is much better versus the run than he is in pass rush situations. He often comes out of the game in passing downs and has only totaled 4.5 sacks over the past two seasons. He is more of a power or bull rusher who flashes the ability to push the pocket. He does not, however, show the foot quickness or hand quickness to play on the edges. He is a tall defensive end, but he plays with good leverage in the run game. He is a solid starter.
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Grant - 66

Comment: Grant has been a starter for virtually his all career and has done a good job of anchoring the left side of the defensive line in New Orleans. He is more effective when it comes to playing the run than he is as a pass-rusher off the edge. He reads blocking schemes quickly and does a good job of leveraging himself through blocks and working his way to the ball.
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Bell - 70

Comment: He has been a mainstay in the Miami Dolphins' defense. He had another solid season in 2009, finishing with 114 tackles and three interceptions. Bell is a versatile safety who is effective in coverage and in the box. Bell is an aggressive run-support player who plays downhill when attacking the line of scrimmage. He is a player who plays under control in run support as he is a sure tackler. He is an active player in coverage. He is better in halves coverage than he is in the deep third. He is physical in man coverage when matched up versus the tight end. He is one of the most consistent starters on the Miami defense.
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Solia - 60

Comment: He is a load at the point of attack. He is a short-area block gobbler at the nose tackle position. He is strictly a first- and second-down player in Miami's scheme. He has zero sacks in his first three NFL seasons. He is a player who is a load at the point of attack. He plays with good leverage. He shows first step explosiveness getting into blockers. He uses his hands well to discard and make plays in line. His limitations are rushing the passer and making plays outside the A gaps.
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Dobbins - 59

Comment: He is a former San Diego Charger who joined the Miami Dolphins this offseason. Dobbins is more of a two-down linebacker in that he is much better versus the run than the pass. He has a physical inside presence and can gobble up lead blocks. However, he is not always quick to shed blocks. He is more of a box player who does not show great range to make plays out near the numbers. He is getting better with reps but is still slow to react at times versus the run and pass. He is a good backup who adds quality depth to the Dolphins' linebacker group.
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Crowder - 70

Comment: Crowder has been one of the more consistent players on Miami's defense until last season, when he missed three games due to injury. He possesses a nice combination of size and strength for the inside linebacker position. He uses his hands well, taking on and shedding blocks. He can shed and make tackles in the hole. He is a solid wrap-up tackler. He is a good overall athlete who shows some ability to play sideline to sideline. He can be a little bit of a straight-line guy and does not show consistently quick change of direction. He is average versus the pass. Overall, though, Crowder is one of their more consistent players on the defense.
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Haha that is the most vanilla description I've seen yet.

Okay that's all for now. Misi, Odrick, Jerry and Caroll were not commented on. Not suprising. Fields had a good review, solid NFL punter/can kick in any condition, strong leg.

Bpk · Aug 25, 2010

Thanks AC.

I agree with most of their stuff and found it informative!

The Jake Grove stuff sounded totally wrong to me. Maybe I just haven;t watched Grove closely enough, but I thought the exact OPPOSITE was true. He is physical, does best head-up on a big NT (which is why we signed him, because Sparano and Ireland said they were impressed how he handled Kris jenkins and Vince Wilfork alone, without help). He is less good versus a 4-man front because he has to block at angles then, and he seems to be less powerful and physical in that case.

At least, that was my impression. I also see him miss blocks in space, so not sure where this athletic, agile, fleet-of-foot stuff they say about Grove is coming from.

Anonymous · Aug 25, 2010

They were even wrong in how we acquired Grove.

The Aqua Crush · Aug 25, 2010

Bpk said:

Thanks AC.

I agree with most of their stuff and found it informative!

The Jake Grove stuff sounded totally wrong to me. Maybe I just haven;t watched Grove closely enough, but I thought the exact OPPOSITE was true. He is physical, does best head-up on a big NT (which is why we signed him, because Sparano and Ireland said they were impressed how he handled Kris jenkins and Vince Wilfork alone, without help). He is less good versus a 4-man front because he has to block at angles then, and he seems to be less powerful and physical in that case.

At least, that was my impression. I also see him miss blocks in space, so not sure where this athletic, agile, fleet-of-foot stuff they say about Grove is coming from.
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Ya they never mention who the scouts are for which players so it keeps them guarded. I'm also not sure how much exposure they get to a player or how much time they put in analyzing a player. I think they miss the boat on some players. I agree with your breakdown of grove over theirs.

But it's fun reading another scouting service as you mentioned, whether we are in agreement or not with their comments.

VanDolPhan · Aug 25, 2010

Ashraf said:

They were even wrong in how we acquired Grove.
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Yah there was no trade...he was a FA pickup. He's only been here 1 year lol.

DePhinistr8 · Aug 25, 2010

I still have a hard time agreeing with Sanchez having solid mechanics.

phineas64 · Aug 25, 2010

First time I ever heard anyone describe Penny's arm as 'above average'. :lol:

Have to say it's a solid piece though, pretty good read and analysis.

phineas64 · Aug 25, 2010

Bpk said:

Thanks AC.

I agree with most of their stuff and found it informative!

The Jake Grove stuff sounded totally wrong to me. Maybe I just haven;t watched Grove closely enough, but I thought the exact OPPOSITE was true. He is physical, does best head-up on a big NT (which is why we signed him, because Sparano and Ireland said they were impressed how he handled Kris jenkins and Vince Wilfork alone, without help). He is less good versus a 4-man front because he has to block at angles then, and he seems to be less powerful and physical in that case.

At least, that was my impression. I also see him miss blocks in space, so not sure where this athletic, agile, fleet-of-foot stuff they say about Grove is coming from.
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Sounds a lot like they mixed Grove up with his predecessor....

Eop05 · Aug 25, 2010

Steve Smith and Reggie Wayne ahead of Marshall was a head scratcher to me.

Eop05 · Aug 25, 2010

rafael said:

How did they grades our centers? The reason I ask is that on a per snap basis they were #2 and #3 on PFF behind Mangold.

Also what about Marshall, Brown and Williams? If you don't mind. Thanks.
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Seeing Ryan Kalil as the #2 center still irks me. Not because I don't agree with the ranking, but because I truly believe Miami was taking him at #60 in 2007. Then Carolina traded one spot ahead of us (knowing we were gonna take Kalil at #60).

Carolin then takes him, and Mueller and Cameron, IMO, not knowing what to do in those 5 minutes as a result take the next best center in Satele (even though he may not have been projected as a 2nd rounder in their minds). No backup plan.......they just had it in their heads that they were going Center so they took one anyway.

I was very upset at that on Draft day 2007. Ryan Khalil would look real nice as a Miami Dolphin, and I think that was the plan.

Phinatic425 · Aug 25, 2010

Eop05 said:

Steve Smith and Reggie Wayne ahead of Marshall was a head scratcher to me.
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#7 is too low for Marshall

1. Andre the Giant
2. Fitz
3. THE BEAST

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