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EURO 2020 Championship

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Claymore95, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Btw Southgate chose poorly. He should have brought on these guys way before the very end Rashford and Sancho. Very strange.
     
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  2. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    Not only that, but had the 19 year old taking the last penalty.

    Congrats to Italy, who have been the best team in the tournament IMO. Also the better team in the final too. Even the naturally disappointed English commentators here have said that looking back at it they deserved it. In a way, them going behind after 2 minutes might have been good for them, a long time to come back and they slowly turned the screw.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
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  3. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    Talking about irony, when Italy got that corner on 66 minutes, I did think to myself "this would be very ironic if Italy scored now..."
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    I think I've reached the point where I'm done with football. In my opinion the sport is broken and the culture of the sport is broken.

    I don't watch that much of it but whenever I do it's always the same.

    The diving, the time wasting, the dodgy decisions - and seemingly no desire to change things.

    Football needs to introduce a stopped clock, needs to embrace VAR properly, and needs to introduce a sin bin. Failure to do so is implied permission to continue with the dodgy aspects of the game.

    England had their chances to win and didn't maximise them, however, the fouling of the Italians, especially that last one to bring down a player heading into open field, are good examples of this being a thugs game.

    Disgusting. Win or lose by skill, not cheating.
     
  5. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    LOL. This post is pure nonsense. Cheating? LMAO. England diving all game. Maguire grabbing his head after Berardi's boot didn't even reach his shoulder. Kane diving all game. Sterling? Same. Italians cheating? LMAO. Not sure how anyone can come away from that game thinking England played better or deserved it, or that it was taken from them somehow by thug life and cheating. LOL. Amazing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
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  6. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    GG Paul. Southgate made his subs way too late. They made a difference and changed the shape of the match. Not sure why his starting 11 was so conservative. England have lots of stars coming up and you have a lot to look forward to in the future. I told my brother right away that if the subs were brought on for PKs only its a bad call. Minutes before PKs and they barely, if at all (Rashford) touched the ball and then you put them on the spot? Tough situation especially since they're so young.
     
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  7. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    I didn't actually say anything about England playing better. Seriously. Go and re-read it.
    What I said was that I'm tired of a sport where cheating is part and parcel of the game. Every game. Every team. The closest thing I can think of to compare it is the NBA with flopping or jumping into defenders - which is also utter crap. Even then, the bigger point is the lack of motivation to change it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  8. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nah, no apology. You insinuated Italy are thugs, cheats, and likely non deserving in your last two paragraphs.
     
  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    No. I said they gave some good examples of it. I said nothing about England being better or deserving.

    I cited the example of the worst foul in the game which on this occasion belonged to Italy. It was the equivalent of clear path foul in the NBA combined with a hard foul. In the NFL perhaps a horse collar.

    But where basketball can offer free throws and the NFL can offer yardage and downs, soccer offers nothing.

    It was a thug play. There were others. England too. On this night, though, the Italians had 21 fouls to England's 13, and 5 yellow cards to England's 1.

    There's nothing wrong with what I said.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  10. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I edited my original post. Was out of line.
     
  11. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    aye mate, good game, happy for you. I'm gutted though... for losing again on penalties. It hurts, a lot. I do wonder how the game would have gone had we not scored so early. But we'll never know, will we? That is sport. The beauty.. and the pain. And we're not even playing.

    BTW, for some to say "same old England" I think that's lazy. They obviously didn't watch the whole tournament. All of the England games. Sure, there were times when they played too defensive (Scotland mostly). But in the end we got to a final. Just have to take that next step now, with this team. They are young enough. And skilled enough. But I'm not sure Southgate is the one to do it. He's done great getting us to this point... But does he get us over the line? I'm not so sure. It'll be a waste if he is kept on thru another cycle. (Euros and WC). I'd imagine he isn't going anywhere before Qatar. But he has a lot of work to do now, the pressure SHOULD be on him, not the team.

    It's comparable to LFC for me... Rodgers got us to a certain spot of status in the league... Klopp got us all the way to the top though. So I think you need a manager that is fearless.
     
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  12. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, he completely screwed the penalty kicks up.

    If you're bringing guys on to just take penalty kicks, you need to bring them on with 10 minutes left, not a minute and a half.

    They need to run around a little and get loose!

    It's also poor strategy to have an 18-year-old take your 5th PK.

    Conventional wisdom says your second-best PK taker takes number 5.

    I would truly doubt that was Saka.

    Then again, that game was lost when they tried to sit on a one goal lead for 85 minutes.

    You have so much attacking talent, attack!
     
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  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Thank you. I appreciate that.
    I've edited my posts also.
     
  14. Simon

    Simon The Other English Simon Club Member

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    Well done to Italy. I'm not sure why we (England) sat so deep for the Second Half and Extra Time - was inevitable that Italy were going to score.

    Jorginho was lucky to stay on the field after that challenge on Grealish but even a red card then would have made no difference. I had no problem with the horsecollar challenge on Saka - it's a professional foul that I would expect any player to make in similar circumstances.

    Southgate will learn from this, as will the team (second youngest at Euro 2020) - so for once the future is bright.

    The choice of penalty takers will always baffle me, but hats off to the lads who were prepared to stand up and take one. It may just have been that Sterling, Grealish, and co didn't have the bottle in the moment.
     
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  15. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    Also scored by Italy squad number #19...
     
  16. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    Agree with this, it's pretty standard to expect your player to "take one for the team". Annoying when it happens, but part of the game. And not just football (soccer) as you will also see a DB fouling a WR if he's beat and knows that a TD is going to be scored if he doesn't take the WR out.
     
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  17. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I watched every game; haven’t missed an England game in the Euros or WC since the late 80s. and while England is the most talented they’ve been since I’ve been watching them and a fan in the 80s, the coaching tactics are the same. It has almost become baked in. They score early and go into a shell. Then lose finally - late or in penalties in the biggest stage against teams with skilled offense. They went further (but the draw was favorable with Ukraine and Denmark).

    England’s defense was as good as ever with two strong defending FBs. Kyle Walker was excellent on D also. And I’ll give Southgate credit for shaping that.

    Really some great depth of talent on the team but it will be interesting to see if Kane will remain in his prime two years from now. Going to have to see a couple of others step up.

    But Southgate went conservative this game in tactics - in the way England have done many times in the past.

    But as I noted on the prior page, bringing talented players in so late (after hardly playing the entire tourney) was nuts. and going with a young Saka in the penalties?

    S’s tactics got him to the final but England were not near as aggressive offensively with the lead as the prior two games. And why he didn’t give more opps throughout to Rashford or Sancho is surprising. Should have also had Rashford & Sancho in the game for the entire second half of OT if he wanted them warmed up for penalties.

    I also think taking Trippier out and not having him avail for penalties - or even to create a late chance for a goal - was another mistake.
     
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  18. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    From an outsider, Italian fan - This has definitely not been a "same old England". A "same old England" would've been bounced by Germany or any of the first traditional powerhouses they faced. Instead, they really dominated Germany which is something very hard to do.

    The argument can be made that they were the better team in every game they played this tournament except for the Final. And even in this game, they were at worst slightly the lesser.

    There were points in the game yesterday where I was convinced that Italy had no chance of scoring a goal in the run of play unless if Chiesa pulled a rabbit out of a hat (which he almost did....Incredible player, btw). England seemed almost impossible to break down, and they deserve a ton of credit for that. I can't remember another English team where I had that feeling. I actually told a friend of mine looking for betting advice on an Italian goalscorer. He laughed when I told him Chiellini or Bonucci, becasue I think a corner or set piece were Italy's best chance at scoring.

    "Same old England" to me is a vastly overhyped by their own media and fans side that always falls short when playing the France's, Germany's, Spain's, Argentina's, etc. This was not that team. This England team can play with anyone, and aside form a few spot kicks could easily be European champs
     
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  19. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Chiesa is a special player - but it was my AC Milan's legend Bonucci who got the game tying goal! ;)
     
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  20. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I wasn't necessarily directing my comment at you, just in general :wink2: I think we have to be specific and not just say "tactics" to characterize what happened in this game. Because England's style of play since the 80s has changed completely. They are much different in how they attack now vs then. Much more possessive. Much more comfortable on the ball. The passes are all shorter, usually. Much more able to get forward with their full backs / wingbacks. heck, it's even a different formation from the "standard 442."

    Now the shell strategy, or going into defensive mode to protect the 1 goal lead is surely a problem in this game. Do they normally do that? No, I don't think so. Not against lesser teams. But in this moment (I sound like Klopp), you have to protect the lead somewhat and respect Italy. The problem was the lead came so early in the game. If the Italians breakthrough before half time and tie then, you actually prefer that to them tying in the 67th minute. Because you can reset your team mode and go for the goal again with comfort in the 2nd half. It didn't seem like England tried to do this until maybe the extra 30 minutes. It was a long time after the tying goal. But that is when the changes should have been made. You have to change your team at that point. To immediately affect the game. That was my biggest problem and there were many. I mean why on earth you bring on Rashford to play RB for Walker (Italy went right after him) when you KNOW STERLING isn't taking a penalty is BEYOND me. You sub Sterling out at that point for sure.
     
  21. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    How do I get Chiesa at LFC? :lol: He reminds me of a young Luis Suarez. in this way: you wouldn't expect him to be as fast as he is by looking at his physique.
     
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  22. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Watching his growth over the past year in particular at Juventus has been fascinating. The more his confidence grows, the more unstoppable and dangerous he becomes. 2nd half of the season he was above and beyond their best player

    I can't help but have this feeling that Barca, Madrid, Man City, or PSG will now come to Juve with an outrageous offer that may be too good to refuse soon based on how well he played in the spotlight.
     
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  23. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting.

     
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  24. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    If there was a Serie A Hall of Fame, and Bonucci was to get inducted, I'm fairly confident he's going in as Bianconero.

    But we can disagree on that another day! Today, we are all one
     
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  25. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was full of sarcasm - he's def. bianconero. Forza Azzurri!
     
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  26. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    ahhh, ok! I was gonna say....

    :up: Congrats, my man!
     
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  27. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Throughout this tournament I've been very impressed with Italy and decided to rank them among the Italian teams in major tournaments that I've watched (Starting in '94, when I started following soccer heavily), and I continually find myself saying this is the best Italian side I can remember. If they win, surely they'll be #1 or #2. So here goes:

    #1. 2006 (tie)
    #1. 2020 (tie)
    #3. 2004 (didn't get out of the group phase of the Euro with 5 points. Trappatoni got the lineup all wrong for the opener against Denmark by omitting Pirlo and Gattuso - Europe's best midfield at the time and we tied. We pulverized Sweden in the 2nd game only find the net once and Ibra scored a fluke behind the back heel goal. Then the collusion between Denmark and Sweden to tie to send us packing. If Italy gets out of the group, they were a force that year. That lineup was incredible, all in their primes, and the reason they went on to win in 2006. That was a golden generation for Italy.)
    #4. 1994 (very underwhelming except against Spain and Bulgaria, but the talent was top notch.)
    #5. 2012
     
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  28. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That is why I will always root against Denmark and Sweden. The ONLY score that could have eliminated us was a 2-2 tie between them. Not 1-1, not 3-3, or 9-9. Just 2-2. And these were the images before and during the game from both sides.

    2006 team was phenomenal, but it's too bad Maldini didn't get a major tournament win.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As an aside, here is a moment in the 80th minute in the English penalty box. If Cristante takes a dive it goes to VAR and Italy are awarded a PK and maybe even a red to Philips.

    1. This is the state of the game - you don't dive you don't get the call. Happened to Lukaku earlier in the tourney as well.
    2. Maybe Italians aren't so much cheaters and divers as everyone loves to believe.

    https://i.redd.it/uw2dy6u9dta71.gif

    If image isnt showing click above link.

    [​IMG]
     
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  30. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    NJ
    Yup, that was really bad. Though we(or at least my family) knew they were going to do it, so I didn't get my hopes up for qualification. But I love how things like this were happening on a regular basis and FIFA and UEFA were doing nothing about it.

    And I echo your sentiments on Maldini. Very sad to see him never get his international trophy. 2000 Euro, 94 WC. Sad that he lost 2 finals in such gutting fashion. Besides Maldini, only Buffon never getting to lift the CL trophy is harder for me to swallow.
     
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  31. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    Similar to the 1982 WC game between Austria and Germany that put Algeria out of the next round. A win by 1 goal by Germany would put Germany and Austria through and put Algeria out. Germany scored early then the rest of the game was like a training match, passing across the back (and back to the keeper, which was still allowed then) and making no attempt to push forward by either team. It was a disgrace and so obvious, and led to the change in format to have the final games of a group being played at the same time (Algeria had played before the Germany-Austria final game). Even that didn't stop the 2-2 draw that put Italy out though.

    You still see last games in the group that can put both teams through comfortably, but I don't recall any recent games where it's been obvious that the result was played for.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijón
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
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  32. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The simultaneous last games lost its effectiveness with the advent of cell phones...
     

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