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Every Play Counts: Jake Long

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    1. Read this excellent article: Every Play Counts: Miami Dolphins' Jake Long an OK Left Tackle, Great Right Tackle - NFL FanHouse The guy watched Jake Long on every play and this is his analysis

    2. It is written by a member of the Football Outsiders. Their website is footballoutsiders.com I can't recommend this site enough. If you are here (Phins.com) and not there (Fineaven.com), you are obviously the kind of person who goes against the grain, at least a little bit. Then this site is for you. Go there and check out this page: FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008 It explains their approach to analyzing football and football stats.

    3. As for my reaction to the Jake Long article, obviously I wish he were a better pass-blocker, but its only been 3 games. He'll improve. However, even if he is merely an above-average (but not elite) pass-protector, but an elite run-blocker, I'm cool with that.
     
  2. Trackstar

    Trackstar Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    It sounds like this guy expects Long to Block two guys at once. He did his job by chipping Vrabel and handing him off to Brown. tHat sounds like good team blocking to me.

    I disagree with the article, Long was outstanding Sunday and while you will never win all your battles as a rookie going against a Hall of fame defense, he was damn close to winning them all. On the plays I watched, Long was near perfect in pass pro. The guy writing the article is poining out just a smalll handful of rookie mistakes.

    I did like the article though, it gives a good breakdown on those plays. thank you for posting it.
     
  3. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    I thought the article was a good read, but some of Jake's faults he points to in the NE game are coachable mental mistakes that were made.

    And a coachable mistake by a rookie in his 3rd game I'll let pass. (i.e. blocking the outside rusher rather than the inside blitzer).
     
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  4. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    i have read half the article so far. this is what i have to say to the guy writing it.

    if this is how good he is now on the third game of his rookie year how about a year from now when he's been coached by an offensive line coach in head coach tony sporano and by (whoever) else the dolphins have taking the OLine coaching position now that sporanos main job is head coach instead of OLine coach like it was elsewhere?

    how about having bill parcells in and giving long technique here and there?

    man i'm excited!

    ps.

    he doesn't say he's bad but to me it sounds like he's saying he's not worth the #1 overall pick. take what he said and what I said above and you've got the #1 pick in my opinion. rooks aren't going to come in and be pro bowlers right away. they need to be coached into those via their natural talents. long has the talent and the work ethic, on and off field smarts and determination to do it.

    pps.

    thanks for posting the article.

    ppps.

    even if he does move to RT then that's one part of the line we've got locked up. the line has to work as a unit and if we've got long on any part of it it's a blessing.
     
  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I saw some of his pass pro mistakes as well but they were all mental. Those that claimed he should be a RT were basing on his physical attributes. Everybody knows that he has the ability to pickup the mental side.
     
  6. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Thanks very much, Gardenhead. Very interesting read(s).
     
  7. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dude, not be be a jerk, but you might want to read the whole thing.
     
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  8. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    i went and read the whole thing.

    i'd still say all that. i know he wasn't trying to be a jerk about it but to me he came off overly critical of both jake long and chad pennington while still praising them both. basically to me he was saying "if pennington could throw the deep ball then miami would be in big trouble because jake long can't pass block on the LT side and he's more suited for the RT".

    EDIT:

    I'll also go to say that he did praise JLs run blocking ability very well saying that he not only sustained his blocks but pushed his man back or out of the play somehow. also, that I did enjoy his perspective and will agree when he says there are things that need to be worked on.

    this just isn't the way I'd have written the article (homerism, maybe).
     
  9. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You don't have to apologize for being a homer...if you did, this whole board would be nothing but I'm sorry's!
     
  10. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    i didn't see an "I'm sorry" in there :D
     
  11. I'm proud to be a homer.:up:
     
  12. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Funny, he spends the first 2/3rds of the article praising Long for both LT and RT play, pass protection and run blocking. He also states the obvious, that we all knew about Long was that he was a better run blocker in college than pass blocker...as is with most rookies who are LTs in college. Most OTs coming out of college are looked at as better RT than LT prospects in the NFL...as was the case with Long, Otah, Williams, etc this year...Guys like Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace, etc only come along once in a while...guys that come out of college ready to play LT in the NFL...

    All that said, many scouts agreed that Long would probably make a better RT than LT at this level and that was the biggest knock on him. Perhaps if we had a better option at LT, that would be the case here. The bottom line is that this regime wanted him at LT and wanted him to anchor their revamped OL...which he has done quite well so far.

    He has some growing to do, but so does the rest of the team. I don't think Sparano feels concerned, at this point, at any phase of Longs development...
     
  13. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Thanks for the article.
    No offense to you but Jake Long is a rookie for petesakes. If a rookie makes rookie mistakes would that mean that none of the rookies are suited for their position because most of them do?
    If Jake Long becomes an above average left tackle then I think we are very fortunate considering all the struggles we have had at that position over the years.
    Carey was an ok left tackle but has the potential to be an All Pro at right tackle.
    Satele has made some mistakes this year does that mean he is not suited at center or should we consider him growing into that position?
    I don't mean to slam the article but I just think its overly critical to a rookie left tackle.
     
  14. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I thought his analysis of Jake Long was spot on. Not sure what there is to argue.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dont trust this guys analysis, Conifucis...WHERE U AT,

    Jake Long is and will be a great football player, if you watch an olineman on every play there are so many circumstances that can happen beyond their control that can effect their own responsibility

    Garbage IMO
     
  16. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Well, I think there's plenty to argue.

    Point is that anyone writing an article trying to make a definitive statement about a rookie player after watching one game in his rookie season deserves all the leery eyes directed his way. This type of judgement is typical of fans who don't understand the game or player development not from a guy who is paid write educated analysis about players and the sport of football.

    He's already determined from his view that the guy will never be a good LT and his pass blocking skills will always be a liability.
    I'd say that's an ignorant statement at this point.
     
  17. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Analysis is accurate, but the overall theme behind the analysis is that Jake should be a RT.

    I just don't think a few mental mistakes in his 3rd game warrant this theme.

    Jake will learn to deal with the speed rushers better and then his above average pass blocking coupled with his elite run blocking will equate to a pro-bowl LT. And at that time we'll have a kick-*** run blocking RT and a kick-*** run blocking LT and hopefully we can control games the way we did this past Sunday.

    P.S. Anytime you analyze ONE player on EVERY play of a game, you're probably going to be able to pick out a handful of plays where that player could have done better. This is an example of that.

    Heck, if you watch the Philly-PIT game and analyze every player on the line every play, then those guys couldn't even be college linemen. And half of those guys are Vets making mental mistakes on crazy blitz packages by Jim Johnson.
     
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  18. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The article was a "definitive statement" about ONE GAME, not Jake Long's career. And to assert that this writer "doesn't understand the game" is a bit much.
     
  19. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Oh so that statement at the end about how he concurs with some GM's that felt Long should move to RT in the NFL, not to mention his title, "OK LT great RT" dosen't imply anything about Longs entire NFL career and whether he'll be a success at LT in the NFL?

    Please.

    It was the reason for this whole article, a horribly premature judgement piece.

    Also, I never said the writer "didn't understand the game".

    I mentioned that this type of talk is what you'd expect from fans that don't understand the game not from a "journalist" that is paid to write articles from an educated perspective.
     
  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Yeah, I can buy that. He probably should have had a disclaimer saying that Jake is only in his 3rd game so its too early to know how he's going to end up
     
  21. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    That's all I'm sayin.

    I get tired of journalists serving up knee jerk pie to their audience.

    His analysis of the performance itself I agree with you is right on and good content. I just don't like the projection of what it means at this point.
     
  22. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    . Your first sentence is probably the best way to put it. The analysis is good the theme is a bit overboard. His run blocking is going to be phenomenal. You can already see that and at least the writer acknowledges that. As to the problems he has in pass protection, I dont think its just mental preperation. I think it has to do with reaction time. You can compensate for that somewhat with proper technique and slightly cheating the blocks but you're still going to have problems when defensive linemen or linebackers give you double moves. Thats why I'm looking forward to seeing him against Aaron Schobel and Mario Williams. I think we'll all have a much better grasp on where he is as a pass protector after those matchups

    The other thing the writer isnt considering and I have to force myself to do is that Parcells may put more emphasis on a superior run blocking left tackle than other coaches or GMs. If you can run equally well from the left as the right its more difficult to scheme against your run tendencies. So where Long might not be the best fit for left tackle for an Indianapolis Colts team, he might be a perfect fit for a future Dolphins team that will place a bigger emphasis on the run
     
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  23. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just watched the game again last night and steped through some plays. One thing that stood out to me was how fast Jake reacted to the snap. Other than the center, he was usely the first one on the O-line moving. The other think I noticed was his hustle when he messed up. He was all ways trying to get back into a position to make a difference. I am much higher on him now than I was at the time of the draft.
     
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  24. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    love the poll about who will be the best T taken in round 1 2008. gimme a break
     
  25. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    melbourne when did calvin pace say that about long? (your signature)
     
  26. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I wish to say how pertinent this staement is. So, so , so many tiems people look at draft site, mags etc and just go by the overall ranking as though they apply to all teams at all times. Think Jake would work in Denver? How about in Jacksonville? Which one do you think is better?

    So many times this simple and incredibly evident fact is overlooked and or glossed over. Just once I wish there was a site that broke teams down into scheme so that players may be more accurately projected.
     
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  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I agree. I was just reminded of that recently when I brought up how good Clady looked in Denver and they responded that Denver's blocking schemes were tailor made for someone like Clady. It really would be a great idea to see scouting sites or mags do that. I think that's the biggest disconnect between how fans see the draft and professionals see the draft. One looks at the overall ranking, the other looks at how that individual would fit into a specific scheme
     
  28. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    That was a damn great article. He's right about long being more suited for RT. He is an elite run blocker. But the fact he was facing a plethora of very talented proven DE and OLB in the patriots D, schemes against his side and was always able to disrupt the player enough for the QB to get the ball off he did his job in only his third game when it comes to pass protection.

    The play by play breakdown was an actual good analysis of how Jake has performed in one early game.

    I expect jake to get better on which player to take on double team blitzes, the RB should pick up the other player, its ludacris to think any LT will block both rushers. But I agree Jake should be more aware of which one is more of an immediate threat to the qb. But to expect that from a 3rd game is also high expectations.

    The fact we have a mauler run blocker immediatly to start his career is great news. The fact that his pass pro. has area's that will get better but its already at a performance level that is not causing any serious situations is fantastic. I could not be happier with Long as the numebr one overall pick.

    Yes he would be more suited for RT, because he is so good at run blocking. But our mgt has faith in his character, ability and effort to have him become good at pass pro. too. And through three games, i think he has made them real believers, and they must be feeling good about their decsion, as Dolphin qb's usually get sacked many many more times in previous years. He's already playing better at pass pro that what we've had in a long time.

    THe one thing i disagree with is the Pennington / Short throw angle in the article. Any qb needs to learn when to realease the ball. Jake gave him enough time to do that all day, against a very well respected defense, who noramlly blow up LT's.

    Pennington is also smart in knowing how much time he has, and seems to early on know his line and their tendancies. If a lineman gets beat, the qb needs to move in the pocket or get rid of the ball.

    Jake sold me he's going ot be in hawaii for a long long time. But that one game play by play analyiss was very good to read, glad they did it. Nice to see what he did good and what is left to perfect.
     
  29. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    Adam its exactly a great point. I just was listening to that angle on Sirius NFL Radio. They were saying Cowher used to talk to the host (forget name) and he would watch college ball games specifically looking for a OLB because pitts. ran the 3-4. And he knows for a great 3-4 you need a great OLB.

    Basically Cowher would look at the slimmer, power , fast DE in college games and think, that guy would be perfect for the 3-4, but not at DE at OLB. He would fit Steeler football the best. Their eyes and scouts would watch that player from there on out, because that player might not even be the best DE in the draft rankings, but he would be the best for the steelers 3-4 olb position. So that player would be ranked ahead, subsequently drafted ahead of other players who have better "attributes" as per the combine at the same posiiton.

    Adam you nailed it, how normal fans see it and how professionals who get it see it different.
     
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  30. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While I agree for the most part, I do remember quite a few discussions on here about how Dorsey might be the best player in this past draft but he didnt fit OUR scheme. Maybe this board just has so much better informed fans than the other ones. :up:
     
  31. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'd be willing to be that every site has their "Guru's" (still not comfortable with that) and informed posters. Then again, a person is intelligent - people are stupid.
     
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  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The funny thing though, I'd argue that we(myself included), turned out being wrong about this. Everyone was operating under the assumption that the defensive staff would run the Parcells-style, 2-gap 3-4 until after the draft. We've technically speaking got a 3-technique role in our base defense as it stands...
     
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  33. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While I always wanted Jake before the draft, I would not argue, back then, that Dorsey MIGHT BE the better overall player. We made the right choice though.
     
  34. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That would be correct.

    Once Langford and Merlign were selected I think the assessment of where we are going changed.
     

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