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Every Tannehill dropback against New England

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Mainge, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    My thought was he should at least go for the offensive PI and not allow any possible turnover...but wtf do I know..
     
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  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Two things that stood out. On the play where Gibson was hurt, he had all the time in the world, plus a huge area to run. Kind of wish he did, it looked like a real hard pass.

    On the "drop" by Wallace, I do not understand how that wasn't a hit on a defenseless receiver.
     
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    For $60M, he really should be doing enough things well that this isn't an issue.
     
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  4. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Like catching
     
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  5. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    He's not a $60 mil receiver. just because we paid him that much doesn't mean he is or ever has been worth that much, but when you're desperate for playmakers and can't find your own in the draft to contribute on rookie deals like the good teams, you end up having to overpay in FA.
     
  6. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't really agree with this premise. I wouldn't say they overpaid for Gibson, for example. They drafted Hartline too. The problem is when you stray from those types of moves and go after the big names.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is not correct. On a number of counts. First off the route Gibson is running is a deep out route. He fakes the post and then cuts up the field and then cuts to the outside. It's not a vertical route at all. That's what I was getting at. You keep labeling it a vertical, but it's not either.

    Second, the safety you see at the end of the play isn't the deep safety. That's the strong safety Steve Gregory who had underneath coverage on the play while the deep safety, who started off at a right safety position and then rotated toward Wallace at the snap, kept rotating toward Wallace keeping an eye on the quarterback to see if he was going to throw vertically to Wallace.

    The play concept worked exactly as it should. Gibson ran a deep route that broke to the outside underneath Wallace who was running vertically to clear out defenders with him. The underneath safety had to choose between covering Gibson and covering Hartline. This left Hartline with man to man coverage underneath where he could be counted on to get the 1st down.

    I'm just laying it all out there because you seem to be unable to see what's happening on the play due to the constraints of the broadcast footage.
     
  8. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I dont want to compare to Brady this year, given how poor their passing game has been, but if Brady usually aims to the middle that % in other seasons then I'm happier hearing it.
     
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  9. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    $27 Million.

    NOT $60M... We paid him $11M upfront and a salary of $1M this season. Next season we'll pay him $15M total. That is $27 million total.

    He doesn't get the other $33M unless we decide on the option to do so...
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    In 2012 it was even lower for Brady, 10.5% of his aimed passes.
     
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  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    $27 million over two years is even worse than $60 million over five years.
     
  12. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Was about to post something similar... I would like to know the stats for QBs who have played well this season and are throwing over the middle as opposed to Tannehill and Brady dumping it short into the middle. I see don't Tannehill doing it at all, but I can't find stats on it.
     
  13. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    No argument, but it is more accurate.

    Maybe Wallace figures since we're only paying him a salary of $1M this season, that that's all the effort he is going to give... ;-)
     
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  14. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    We're talking about Wallace. He was one of the top players in FA, and you always overpay for the best that FA has to offer. and Hartline isn't a playmaker, his limitations are why we were so desperate to sign Wallace in the first place.
     
  15. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    You feeling ok? You left out the Ireland part. :shifty:
     
  16. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    True, but he'll be gone soon anyway.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That made me LOL.
     
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  18. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I find it hard to believe that Ryan Tannehill works the middle of the field more than Tom Brady, but if that's what the numbers say, then ok..
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Tom Brady works the SHORT middle like few other quarterbacks in the league. I forget who but someone said something that alluded to the middle of the field beyond 10 yards, that's why I brought up the "center square" so to speak.

    As for the short-middle, that's a given. Tom Brady pounds that area liks Gisele pounds Tom's mangina.

    In 2011, Brady used that area of the field 32.5% of the time. In 2012 it was about 31%. This year it's closer to 29% because of the issues they've had. Tannehill is closer to 26% which is about what you'd find on a Drew Brees.
     
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  20. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod Staff Member

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    That in and of itself is interesting because you would think Brees would avoid the middle somewhat due to his height limitations.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Interesting.

    Well I suppose it's possible Brees is at the low end of the stick in terms of how he works the short middle. Never thought of it that way. Peyton Manning is certainly on the high end (nearly 35%). But an Aaron Rodgers for example has a lower percentage aimed into this area than Tannehill (~24.5%)
     
  22. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Yeah that was me, but I also didn't bother to ask what was defined as intermediate.

    Who works the middle intermediate the most, btw?
     
  23. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Haven't way,he'd it but I remember thinking tanny was on fire, pinpoint accuracy throughout.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Andrew Luck.

    Big Ben might come a close second in most years but not this year by a long shot. Robert Griffin was up at the top level last year (might have been the highest target % in the league) but not even close this year.

    Mike Vick, Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning and Matt Ryan come in the next tier but they're significantly below Luck.
     
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  25. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    And the deep middle?
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Sorry, y'all have used up all your tokens today. I'm not looking it up. :)
     
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  27. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Since this play was discussed a bit, here are a couple of All-22 stills of said play
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Thanks. As you can see from the second frame, Gibson is in the middle of making a hard break to the outisde underneath Wallace's go route. He's not running a vertical route. He's running a deep out underneath Wallace's clear-out.

    If you look at the first frame you see that the deep safety is within range to close on a deep ball if Tannehill chose to throw it. From that still shot, I'd say Tannehill is still at least half a second from being able to let the bird fly, if not more. Pure, arm-only release speeds average about three tenths of a second. Add your foot action into it and you're talking five tenths of a second. Add in the fact that Tannehill hasn't even popped out of his break yet, you're probably talking more like seven or eight tenths of a second.

    Remember, Devin McCourty (whose final 20 yards of his 40 yard dash averaged about 22 mph) doesn't have to beat Mike Wallace to a spot. He just has to beat the football to a spot. Functionally speaking the best throw Tannehill could hope for would be to get the ball to the opposing 30 yard line at the very fringe of the field.

    If he's still half a second away from throwing the football at the point of that first still frame then McCourty has at least 3 seconds from the point of that still shot to get to that 30 yard line (he's already at the 43 yard line) and to the edge of the field.

    And that's assuming a pinpoint throw right at the fringe of the field...which is probably a bad assumption. Given the angles, any amount of distance Tannehill steers the ball to the inside of the very fringe of the field is found-money for McCourty, but does not necessarily cut down on the distance or speed of Tannehill's throw.

    For example if he steered the ball 10 feet inside the sideline, that reduces McCourty's distance from 94 feet to 85 feet...but it reduces Tannehill's throw distance only from 155 feet to 150 feet. And since the average speed of the ball is twice that of McCourty's speed so really the ball isn't getting there much faster, but McCourty would damn well get there faster if you reduced his distance by 9 feet.

    In other words, McCourty was all over it.

    That's not at all the kind of high percentage shot you want to take on 3rd & 7. Tannehill did a good job converting the 1st down on this play.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes. It was 3rd & 7 in the first quarter. Stringer criticized it as a bad play by Tannehill because he thinks Wallace was open for a deep ball. I personally don't think Wallace was open and I like the decision to take the high percentage throw on 3rd & 7. I think our 1st down play calling on the other hand has been spotty at best.
     
  31. phintasmic

    phintasmic Banned

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    I give this thread the...

    [​IMG]
     
  32. Not sure I agree with Stringer either on that play. My eye is not as trained as many of the people on this board but I have made an observation about RT that I would like to hear your perspective on.

    It seems to me that RT is good at finding windows to throw the ball into to make completions. Where his passing game has room for improvement is in his ability to understand how the flow of the defense is going and him using that knowledge to exploit them by throwing to guys that might not look open when he throws. By the time the ball is delivered the defense has moved its position to where his receiver is in a position to gain open field yardage. Its something I notice very good QBs do well and I am hopeful that he develops that trait. Am I being unfair or is it something you have noticed about him too?
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you're talking about anticipation. I've not noticed much issue with anticipation, personally. He throws with trust that the route is going to come open. He believes in his receivers when they're in one-on-one situations.

    If you were talking about his lack of feel for the flow of the football game, I would agree with you. But if you're talking about the flow of the defense on individual plays, anticipating open windows and throwing into them, I think he does that quite a bit actually.
     
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  34. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    He had great anticipation on that TD throw to Gibson Sunday. Was covered when he threw the ball, knowing Gibson was coming back.
     
  35. I think he is very good at hitting open receivers. I meant what stringer alluded to by saying that he had Wallace open but took Hartline instead. I'm not saying on that particular play he made a poor choice but in general it seems like he does not always choose the best guy to hit to pick up yards after the catch. I guess I am saying he out executes defenses but he is not out thinking them yet
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't think he's very creative when anticipating the throws that could hurt a defense prior to the snap. On a play like that you pretty much know what you're going to do after the snap, so long as the defense shows you what you need to see. I think that's his main sin. He doesn't have a great feel for the game.
     
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  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    After watching THill for awhile now it is clear to me if he does not have rapport with a receiver he tends to be very mechanical, this is why Gibson was much more effective than Wallace so far.
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think he could of went either way, the pocket was clean for him to step into the throw, Wallace got a step on his man, raised his hand up, and I think Ryan could of rifled a laser..but he didn't look that way even though there was a one on matchup available..now even though he made a great throw to hart for the first are you saying that that play had no freedom to go deep or you don't think he had as good of chance to hit Wallace as he did threading that needle to hart?
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    As I've been saying in the thread, it wasn't really one on one. Devin McCourty rotated into a deep center field position at the snap and was eyeballing the deep ball to Wallace.
     
  40. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    How much of that is just something that will come with experience at the position?

    We have seen this season him beginning to look off the Safeties....

    I dunno...I think once we see Tannehill get the rock solid fundamentals down, your going to see that kind of creativity flourish. So far I havent seen anything from his game play that suggests a fatal flaw in his game.
     
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