Excellent Barry Jackson article..good nugs.

Hartline, who had 549 yards in 2011 (his third year), said: “I have everything you need in a wide receiver"

I have always like the swagger he plays with on the field...show me something against Revis and we'll talk.

Jones, selected 163rd in 2010, is “playing smart and with a lot more confidence, and it shows in the speed he’s playing at,” Coyle said. “We’re expecting big things from him.”

There is some buzz goin around that we may of found our safety..let's see what he's got in a big game.

Bline just has problems staying healthy.

I like his game, but Knox v Hartline is no contest.

And being on the roster does not mean contributing at a high level, especially in playmaker positions.

### With five important impending free agents (Long, Smith, Reggie Bush, Hartline and Randy Starks), the Dolphins are proceeding cautiously, delaying serious talks with Starks and*Bush (two players whose value keeps risi)

Better have a good plan to keep our boys.

Big Jake really should stick, we have cap space but in FA you never know how much $$$ another team will throw at a player.

Big picture, if we lose Jake and Bush we'd have logical replacements, but I really don't want to go back to drone football.

Now, the Draft is not the be all end all of player moves, Ireland does excel at finding guys who turn into the better players on our team, Wake, Starks, Bush etc.

"djphinfan wrote:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2012/09/encouraging-signs-from-pre-2012-fins-picks-um-qb-reality-series-news-heat-marlins.html

After last Sunday’s game, Oakland defensive coordinator Jason Tarver told Dolphins offensive coordinator Mike Sherman “that I’m better than my brother,” Pouncey said proudly "

Nice confirmation from what we've reported about Pounce.

Check this one out that Barry just drops.

"Bill Parcells allowed Ireland to run the 2009 draft, so Ireland gets demerits for Davis, Pat White and Patrick Turner, but credit for Sean Smith at 61 (nobody picked soon after is clearly better), Hartline at 108 (Austin Collie and Johnny Knox are the only receivers drafted after him with more career yards) and Chris Clemons at 165."

Well now, for all the Ireland apologists who have been blaming the 2009 draft on the Tuna, what do you have to say now? :chuckle:

I don't think anyone was blaming Parcells for that draft.

### With five important impending free agents (Long, Smith, Reggie Bush, Hartline and Randy Starks), the Dolphins are proceeding cautiously, delaying serious talks with Starks and Bush (two players whose value keeps rising) and others…. This speaks well of Tony Sparano, who visits Sunday as Jets offensive coordinator: Even after he was fired last December, he texted helpful feedback to a few Dolphins, such as Bell, after games.

If he means Yeremiah Bell, couldn't that be considered tampering (since Yeremiah signed with the Jets). That would be pretty effin' funny if Barry's intended flattery turns out to cost the Jets a pick, lol...

It depends on what side of the Ireland controversy you are on there is something in that blurb for everyone .Barry must be a politician .:lol:

Pouncey was my guy before the draft and he is the only Ireland pick that I agreed with when he made that pick besides Tanny .He is a beast and should get some All Pro interest soon.

"Pandarilla wrote:

If he means Yeremiah Bell, couldn't that be considered tampering (since Yeremiah signed with the Jets). That would be pretty effin' funny if Barry's intended flattery turns out to cost the Jets a pick, lol...

It reads that it was in December 2011, so Bell was still a Dolphin and Sparano hadn't gone to the Jets yet.

"MrClean wrote:

Well now, for all the Ireland apologists who have been blaming the 2009 draft on the Tuna, what do you have to say now? :chuckle:

Alright, let's take a look at it..

First, there's a lot of proof out there that Parcells wanted White, so I'm not sure I can take this statement by Jackson as fact..

I mean, I've actually heard him talk about how he made the mistake.

VD..took a chance on a blue chip talent, who was very immature...The talent was unquestioned, but not projecting the players intangibles correctly, is part of the gig, however, recouped a good 2nd round pick after the player failed..Gotta see what he does with that pick right??

Pat White..can't blame him for this one, it's too extreme for Parcells to allow it back then.

Sean Smith...excellent pick and value.

Pat turner...bust.

Brian Hartline..excellent pick and value.

Nalbone Naltoast.

Chris Clemons..late round starter at this point, I'll call it a decent pick.

Andrew Gardner..bust.

Folsom..bust.

So, he walked out if that draft with Smith, Hart, Clemons, and future 2nd rounder..

Well, depending on what he does with that 2nd rounder, could be a good draft, could be a below average one.

"djphinfan wrote:

Alright, let's take a look at it..

First, there's a lot of proof out there that Parcells wanted White, so I'm not sure I can take this statement by Jackson as fact..

I mean, I've actually heard him talk about how he made the mistake.

VD..took a chance on a blue chip talent, who was very immature...The talent was unquestioned, but not projecting the players intangibles correctly, is part of the gig, however, recouped a good 2nd round pick after the player failed..Gotta see what he does with that pick right??

Pat White..can't blame him for this one, it's too extreme for Parcells to allow it back then.

Sean Smith...excellent pick and value.

Pat turner...bust.

Brian Hartline..excellent pick and value.

Nalbone Naltoast.

Chris Clemons..late round starter at this point, I'll call it a decent pick.

Andrew Gardner..bust.

Folsom..bust.

So, he walked out if that draft with Smith, Hart, Clemons, and future 2nd rounder..

Well, depending on what he does with that 2nd rounder, could be a good draft, could be a below average one.

That's a fairly loose definition of "good" DJ. Considering Clay Matthews and Hakeem Nicks were on the board, it makes the Vontae miss seem worse. This is compounded by the fact that Vontae had maturity issues. Shouldn't Ireland's search for the so-called "makeup" have brought those to light? I don't think lumping in a recouped 2nd roud pick for Vontae Davis helps out the 2009 class any. 2013 yes, but for 2009, it's a loss as the player is gone and that pick didn't do anything then.

With the three players coming out of the draft - you've got Sean Smith, who, let's face it, has been an average starter to this point. Chris Clemons probably shouldn't be starting at this point, but he is (not to re-hash other threads, but Earl Thomas and Reshad Jones would be really nice at S). Hartline's been decent so far, and I think he'll thrive in this system.

That being said, I could easily see a scenario where in 2 years time the only person left from the '09 class is Hartline.

I can say pretty safely it isn't true since Ireland himself said during this last draft that it was the second one he has run.

"Alex44 wrote:

I can say pretty safely it isn't true since Ireland himself said during this last draft that it was the second one he has run.

Pretty convenient for him to say that given the heat that was on him going into this past draft, huh? He's been pretty quick to shirk past mistakes throughout his tenure here.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

That's a fairly loose definition of "good" DJ. Considering Clay Matthews and Hakeem Nicks were on the board, it makes the Vontae miss seem worse. This is compounded by the fact that Vontae had maturity issues. Shouldn't Ireland's search for the so-called "makeup" have brought those to light? I don't think lumping in a recouped 2nd roud pick for Vontae Davis helps out the 2009 class any. 2013 yes, but for 2009, it's a loss as the player is gone and that pick didn't do anything then.

With the three players coming out of the draft - you've got Sean Smith, who, let's face it, has been an average starter to this point. Chris Clemons probably shouldn't be starting at this point, but he is (not to re-hash other threads, but Earl Thomas and Reshad Jones would be really nice at S). Hartline's been decent so far, and I think he'll thrive in this system.

That being said, I could easily see a scenario where in 2 years time the only person left from the '09 class is Hartline.

I'm thinking he will sign those two players to contracts, especially if he drafted them, their still in the upside. And Odick/Misi over Thomas is still in evaluation no?

At this point in one draft he got two good players, an average one, and a 2nd round pick, judge how you will, relative to the others...it's about average right?

"MrClean wrote:

Well now, for all the Ireland apologists who have been blaming the 2009 draft on the Tuna, what do you have to say now? :chuckle:

Nothing. I've always said I liked the '09 draft outside of Parcells' Pat White pick followed by his hometown pick, John Nalbone. :tongue2:

"RoninFin4 wrote:

That's a fairly loose definition of "good" DJ. Considering Clay Matthews and Hakeem Nicks were on the board, it makes the Vontae miss seem worse. This is compounded by the fact that Vontae had maturity issues. Shouldn't Ireland's search for the so-called "makeup" have brought those to light? I don't think lumping in a recouped 2nd roud pick for Vontae Davis helps out the 2009 class any. 2013 yes, but for 2009, it's a loss as the player is gone and that pick didn't do anything then.

With the three players coming out of the draft - you've got Sean Smith, who, let's face it, has been an average starter to this point. Chris Clemons probably shouldn't be starting at this point, but he is (not to re-hash other threads, but Earl Thomas and Reshad Jones would be really nice at S). Hartline's been decent so far, and I think he'll thrive in this system.

That being said, I could easily see a scenario where in 2 years time the only person left from the '09 class is Hartline.

I think you're forgetting that we had to walk away from that draft with at least one starting cornerback, and considering Parcells had Pat White pre-pegged as a pick, that didn't leave us much 1st round wiggle room.

I have used the Jordy Nelson and Brian Hartline comparison before

Jordy's first three years: 100 receptions, 1,268 yards, 6 TD
Brian's first three years: 109 receptions, 1,670 yards, 5 TD

In looking at the advanced stats: Jordy was targeted 184 times during his first three years and averaged 6.9 yards per target. That is a catch percentage of about 54%.

Brian was targeted 195 times and averaged 8.5 yards per target. That is a catch percentage of 56%.

What's interesting to me is that Jordy was targeted almost as much as Brian Hartline despite the fact that he was essentially Green Bay's 3rd/4th receiver in his first three years whereas Brian has essentially been Miami's 2nd/3rd receiver over the same time. It tells me a lot about how the previous coaching staff catered to a certain loud mouth prima donna wide receiver that Miami should have never traded for to begin with.

Brian has actually improved his catch percentage this year over his career numbers to this point, as he has caught 60% of the targeted passes his way. He is also averaging 8.1 yards per target, which is a little dip but will likely rise when he uses his sneaky speed to beat a defender on a double move for about 40 yards.

"KB21 wrote:

I have used the Jordy Nelson and Brian Hartline comparison before

Jordy's first three years: 100 receptions, 1,268 yards, 6 TD
Brian's first three years: 109 receptions, 1,670 yards, 5 TD

In looking at the advanced stats: Jordy was targeted 184 times during his first three years and averaged 6.9 yards per target. That is a catch percentage of about 54%.

Brian was targeted 195 times and averaged 8.5 yards per target. That is a catch percentage of 56%.

What's interesting to me is that Jordy was targeted almost as much as Brian Hartline despite the fact that he was essentially Green Bay's 3rd/4th receiver in his first three years whereas Brian has essentially been Miami's 2nd/3rd receiver over the same time. It tells me a lot about how the previous coaching staff catered to a certain loud mouth prima donna wide receiver that Miami should have never traded for to begin with.

Brian has actually improved his catch percentage this year over his career numbers to this point, as he has caught 60% of the targeted passes his way. He is also averaging 8.1 yards per target, which is a little dip but will likely rise when he uses his sneaky speed to beat a defender on a double move for about 40 yards.

If Brian added some serious muscle this offseason, or maybe this coming offseason, I would feel better about his upside.

"phinsational wrote:

I think you're forgetting that we had to walk away from that draft with at least one starting cornerback, and considering Parcells had Pat White pre-pegged as a pick, that didn't leave us much 1st round wiggle room.

No, not at all. There were other CBs, such as Sean Smith, still out there if they had drafted someone instead of Vontae Davis. They still had Will Allen, who was coming off a pretty good 2008, on the roster as well. He even started the first few games over Vontae until he got hurt.

There were some other mid-round guys like Asher Allen, Ladarius Webb, Keenan Lewis, and Greg Toler drafted after Miami took Sean Smith as well.

"djphinfan wrote:

I'm thinking he will sign those two players to contracts, especially if he drafted them, their still in the upside. And Odick/Misi over Thomas is still in evaluation no?

At this point in one draft he got two good players, an average one, and a 2nd round pick, judge how you will, relative to the others...it's about average right?

He did not get a 2nd round pick walking out of that draft. He got a 2nd round pick in 2012 by getting rid of one of his players from 2009. It's not the same thing, unless you're going to consider the move as purely trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd and a 6th and pretend Vontae Davis was never in Miami...? Which is very odd.

And, I'd rate his players Hartline - good, Smith - average, Clemons - below average. I guess we'll agree to disagree there.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

He did not get a 2nd round pick walking out of that draft. He got a 2nd round pick in 2012 by getting rid of one of his players from 2009. It's not the same thing, unless you're going to consider the move as purely trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd and a 6th and pretend Vontae Davis was never in Miami...? Which is very odd.

As JJ has said many times, Draft picks in the future are worth one round less than a current round pick.

"MrClean wrote:

Well now, for all the Ireland apologists who have been blaming the 2009 draft on the Tuna, what do you have to say now? :chuckle:

I like how we're labeled as apologists, as if there was something the GM should be sorry for. Better than to be on the other side with some of the most embarrassing fans in sports :tongue2:. I have defended Ireland on occasion, mainly because he's been made out to be the scapegoat of Parcells' regime, which is completely assinine. This isn't news that Ireland was running the drafts from day 1, not to anyone who's been paying attention. It was well documented that if Ireland & Co. counldn't get a deal done with Long before the draft, that Parcells wanted them to start talks with Chris Long. This recent report is just another attempt to stir the pot, to keep the witch hunt alive. Feed the wolves, as we say.

As long as he keeps getting all the blame for the team trading away marshall and vontae... Ireland's critics aren't even worth trying to reason with. In those scenarios the player and coaches make the decision(s).... and it's the GMs job to respond and react to them.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

He did not get a 2nd round pick walking out of that draft. He got a 2nd round pick in 2012 by getting rid of one of his players from 2009. It's not the same thing, unless you're going to consider the move as purely trading a 1st round pick for a 2nd and a 6th and pretend Vontae Davis was never in Miami...? Which is very odd.

And, I'd rate his players Hartline - good, Smith - average, Clemons - below average. I guess we'll agree to disagree there.

I see what your saying about the pick, but there's got to be some value added somewhere.

Smith up until this point average, I agree, but I see upside there. Either way I'm not lobbying for Ireland because of this draft it's average at this point pending the 2nd rounder..