Excellent Read About The Brian Hartline Signing

Do we even know yet the cap hits for each year of BH's contract?

 

that's all laid out in the article................which apparently people just disregarded or skipped over lol

 

He would have kept Brees had he stayed healthy. He had a horrible shoulder injury.

 

Fair enough..but we do know how it turned out...not good for the chargers..and there is no comparison in the qbs.

 

I think it's a fair deal, I wouldn't have gone any higher than 6 million a year, but I figured he was going to get within the 5-6 range after having a thousand yard season. If the Dolphins get a true #1, or he develops beyond his current ability then you won't care too much about the salary. It's only problematic right now because he's the default #1.

The only thing I don't like is that he only went over 100 yards 3 times, and the Dolphins only won 1 out of those 3 games. However if you look at it, he caught for 50 yards or less 7 out of 16 games this season.

 

I don't, and I'm not against the signing. But when people say ALL THAT MATTERS is guaranteed money, Ithink they are mistaken.

 

I saw it, already considered it previously, but thought spelling it out within the thread may help to reinforce the reasoning.

 

I understand what you're saying, and normally I'd agree, however if you find me other receivers with busted-coverage 80 yarders, I'll remove them. I haven't seen them, which is why I included it with Hartline. 80 yards of 1083 is 7.3% of his production; that's quite different than say 25 yards of 1300 (only 1.9%).... and some players aren't the beneficiary of any busted coverage.

You know why we don't see that happen with typical 1000 yard receivers? It's b/c legitimate 1000 yard receivers receive more attention and aren't treated as afterthoughts. If a legitimate 1000 yard receiver were running a deep cross with Davone Bess, the safety and corner wouldn't both stick with Bess and leave the legitimate 1000 yard receiver running free. If anyone should be the beneficiary of such busted coverage it should be 4.7 forty Davone Bess, so what does that say about Hartline that they both consciously chose to stay on Davone? Does anyone think they stay with Bess if Hartline is replaced with Jordy Nelson or Hakeem Nicks... or even Jeremy Maclin or James Jones for that matter? No way.

 

It's the primary consideration if a team needs to look at future cap hits if the player is cut before the contract is finished. It tells you how locked in you are. Also, BH's contract isn't preventing us from signing any playmakers.

 

It tells me the DBs weren't on the same page and each expected the other was covering Hartline.

 

Exactly. IMO those claiming that the contract is too high have are not looking at the market. If anything, Hartline is slightly below the market rate. That doesn't mean I think that he's great. It means that a #2 WR of that age with about that level of production would, on average, get slightly more than what Hartline got. My hope was to get him under $6 per but I also recognize that I'm almost always below the market. Getting him at $6.1 per is more than a fair deal for us.

 

Gotta remember the chargers had the #1 pick that year for a reason

 

Again, it's not ALL THAT MATTERS. Wich is my point.

 

For those upset about the deal, what would you have liked the Dolphins to do? Should they have let him walk and then instead of trying to find 2 more WRs (one of them a starter), they would have to find 3 (two of them being starters) and replace Hartline's production in the process? Is 1 or 2 million worth that kind of uncertainty?

 

... which likely wouldn't happen with a legitimate 1000 yard receiver being the furthest downfield and directly in front of Bess (just as Hartline was on the play). It looks like Cover 3 with Rhodes ditching his right 1/3 responsibility to stay with Bess when Hartline is obviously the deepest receiver running smack into his zone. IMO, if Hartline is replaced by Hakeem Nicks on this play, the first thing that happens is the safety locates where Nicks is pre-snap b/c he's actually a threat to score or bust a big play. Then secondly the safety remains aware of Nicks' presence during the play so that if 2 receivers are crossing deep in front of him and Nicks is the furthest down the field, there's no way he's ditching Nicks to stay with Bess IMO.

 

His position is that Nelson is underpaid without much elaboration. Yes, relative to Hartline's contract, Nelson is underpaid. That doesn't mean Hartline was paid right on the dot.

It's an unelaborated argument and a poor supporting detail.

I would have liked them to forward the money they just gave Hartline to Jennings, sign or trade for a second starting-caliber receiver who can displace Bess (who is a free agent next year), then draft a receiver no later than #42 overall.

 

Probably all true, but the fact of the matter and the bottom line IMO is some DB was assigned to cover Hartline on the play and failed to do so. There are no acceptable excuses from the Cards' perspective.
Even if that had been Naanee running that route, someone had to cover him and did not.

 

I do not agree. His argument was that Nelson was extended based on potential future production, and Hartline was resigned based on what he'd done already. If Nelson had declined to sign the extension and was resigned last offseason, there is little chance he'd have signed for $4.2 mil/yr

 

So now we taking out plays where the DB made a mistake rather than a great play by the WR? Where are we drawing the line, here? What about busted coverage because a QB has 7 seconds to throw the ball and he's cheating up near the LOS? A DB slipping? A 6'3 DB being outjumped on a fluke deep bomb to a 5'9 WR?

You're using too much confirmation bias in your argument, Phinsational. I think there's definitely an argument to be made with regards to a majority of Hartline's yardage coming in massive chunks, but to break down/remove some of his yardage simply because "he got lucky" or whatever wording you want to put on it just stinks.

 

gimme a break, man. That ONE play represented over 7% of his total yards! I excluded one play, not twenty! You wouldn't see fans of Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Brandon Marshall, or any other playmaking receiver in the league crying about 1 freakin' play being removed like you're doing, and you know why--- b/c they have plenty of other plays stacked behind it to not have any real statistical impact should one be removed. But nooooo, b/c it's Hartline and b/c it represents his only freakin' TD of the year and 7.4% of his total production, you ***** and moan about it.

 

Obviously, lol. Didn't turn out so well for us either.

 

If the injury was the reason they got rid of him..if not, if they thought Rivers would be better, joke on them.

 

Question for me is, what dos a successful 2013 look like for Hartline?

1k yds, say 7 Td's?

 

I think 4 or more would be reasonable.

 

I took away Calvin Johnson's longest play. He ends up with 1,911 yards and 5 TDs still.

 

You know what's a real possibility. FA WR brought in, with Rishard or draft pick stepping up, and Hartline goes back to 600 yards and 1 TD.

That would suck. Pure speculation on my part of course, but still. Hartline's numbers improved because his targets went up. That's all. He had a good year, and I've always liked him. But he is, what he is.

 

Calvin Johnson is getting paid twice as much as Hartline..

 

and if Ireland doesnt draft your favorite player from tennesee.... he automatically becomes worse !

I'd just love it if you laid out your ideal plans for how the offseason should go, and than it all happening that way. Just think of all the silly reasoning you'd force yourself to resort to.

 

AJ smiths ego did him in, but he is 10x better than Ireland. If kept in check like he was early in his career he'd probably still be in San Diego.

His insistence on Norv also did him in. But he assembled quite the roster year after year.

 

yes, but was it busted coverage.

 

Except that Jennings is reportedly asking for about twice what we paid Hartline, you need another team willing to trade a player who's starting material and if you want to get one in FA it will probably cost about as much as we just paid to Hartline, there's no guarantee the rookie drafted A) pans out, and B) provides an immediate impact. So at the end of the day if you are somehow able to get Jennings at much less than he wants, a starting caliber WR, and a rookie, you're not in a whole lot better shape than you were last season and you have exactly one contributing WR who Tannehill has thrown a pass to.

I'd much rather take the surer thing and get the guy who has great chemistry with Tannehill and build on that.

 

I think you see a replacement for Bess explored later in the draft to be honest. You might be able to practice squad the guy if he's drafted low enough. Bess was a UDFA, so, and to be honest Ireland does have a history of finding late round gems at wide out. That wouldn't be a high priority on my list in terms of allocating a draft choice above round 4 or so. You can get a guy to play the slot around that point in the draft. Now, yes, in this system you want a guy who can move, but honestly there is talent at wide out in this draft and honestly most of falls right in that 2nd - 4th round range. Bess's value isn't as high a priority as it is to maybe find someone with some speed and size. If we can find that and he can come along in the slot, then that's a bargain.

I just don't think we need to allocate a high resource to replacing him, plus it gives player x a year to get something going in the system. If he fails, big deal, if he hits we win out on a cheaper deal along with motivating said player to play big to get paid big.

 

I dunno.

I feel like this draft is chock full of excellent WRs. Not Megatrons, but guys that we'd be drooling over this season had they already been in the pros and made it to FA.

I personally think we can solidify the position for the future with two high picks on WR (Bailey 2a & Austin 1 or Swope 2b or 3a) and be done. Let Tanny grow with his receivers. There's no life changers at any position in this draft anyway...its not like Luck last year or Clowney next year. So just go for it. Secure WR for the foreseeable future. Our biggest hole is points from the passing game.

 

Tavon.Austin cha cha cha-cha-cha, Tavon.Austin cha cha cha-cha-cha.... say it with me, Rich!!

 

Lol the odds of him scoring more TDs next year than he's had in his entire 4 year career are slim to none

 

He was kept in check because he was an assistant to John Butler.

 

not arguing with your points. But it really seems like their plan is to resign Hartline and go out and pay for a #1 WR, making Hartline an important piece of the puzzle as our #2WR, who already had great chemistry with Tannehill. For once, in a long time, it would be nice to have multiple WRs for our QB to throw to.

 

you should argue with his main points, his logic makes no sense.