Excellent !

Excellent, excellent. I think that they are embracing it, and for some of them, it lends to their skill sets, maybe a little better, but not necessarily," Coyle said.

What does that mean?

 

That he doesn't want to say that the coaches previously misused players.

 

I think it could mean for certain guys, for instance Paul Soliai and Randy Starks, the scheme might make better use of their talents, even though they're virtually playing the same exact positions they played under Mike Nolan. In Soliai and Starks case's, they're still playing the 1 and 3 technique respectively, but perhaps what they're being asked to do under Coyle will better play into their strengths. I can envision Soliai being asked to penetrate and shoot gaps more often than he was in the past when his role was to take up 2 guys and let Dansby, Burnett, and Crowder play off him. Something along those lines. However, Coyle hasn't exactly been forthcoming with specific information regarding his defense thus far.

Today was finally the first time that we heard that Koa Misi was playing Sam LB. The only other thing I've taken from the defense is that Wake moves around. Philbin mentioned he'd been rushing against Jonathan Martin quite a bit. This makes sense as Wake has pretty much rushed from that side of the defense since arriving in Miami. However, if you look at some of the camp pictures, whether on one of the newspaper's sites or the team site, you can see him lined up on the right side, which would be across from Jake Long. I like the ability to move Wake around, and from what I've heard, and seen in the pictures, it looks like Miami's defense has elements of both a 4-3 Under and 4-3 Over in it. The 4-3 Over package would be a new wrinkle, though Miami played some Under last year as Coyle mentioned today.

 

I have seen him play both Ro..and I've see a lot of different players not know how to describe the defense their playing in.

 

While the personnel may be better suited for a 4-3, a premise I do not agree with, I think we are making a mistake. The 4-3 is imo extremely dependent on front 4 pressure that is simply better then your OL and imo only the NYG have that personnel in the entire league. So the way to compensate that is to disguise the 4th rusher which is much easier done from a 3-4. By making this change without the proper personnel I suspect our defense will take a step backwards because frankly unless Vernon can step up and be the 2nd good edge rusher I dont think we have the pieces to get enough pressure on the opposition QB. But I will give Philbin/Coyle the benefit of the doubt because I like them and want our team to succeed more then anything.

 

do you think the giants can be run on?

 

Boiker, stay tuned...Jared Odrick IS that guy.

 

I think there's a bit of misconception there with the 4-3. Miami's 4-3 is going to look as traditional as the Giants' 4-3 does, at least not from what I've picked up. Miami's 4-3, I think, is going to look pretty similar to Nolan's defense in the front 7. I think it has some looks to better utilize players in the front 7 when they're dropping into coverage or are matched up against TEs - and having to face Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Keller all twice this year; I think that's a good thing.

Looking at what Cincinnati did last year, they racked up 45 sacks, 4 more than Miami and only 3 off the Giants' 48 (only 5 away from the league lead, Minnesota & Philly tied with 50 apiece). But if you look at their personnel, you saw 15 different players rack up sacks, compared to 10 Giants players. Miami was in the middle with 13 players recording sacks. Looking closer at Cincinnati's defense though, 7 of their sacks came from the secondary - Reggie Nelson with 2, Chris Crocker with 3.5, Nate Clements with 1, and Kelly Jennings with 1. They also had a tremendous amount of pressure from their interior group - Geno Atkins with 7.5, Domata Peko with 2.5, Jonathan Fanene with 6.5, and Pat Sims with 1.

I think Miami's personnel more similarly represents what Cincinnati had last year. The got a good amount of pressure up the middle using their front seven players. While Miami may not be as deep in the front seven, I think the only Bengals players that are as good or better than their Dolphins counterparts would be Carlos Dunlap (hurt most of last year) and Geno Atkins. I think Miami can make better use of Cameron Wake, Olivier Vernon, and perhaps Jamaal Westerman. Certainly Randy Starks would stand to benefit; remember he had like 6 or 7 sacks in 2009; I think he might regain some of that. Jared Odrick is the wild-card to me. I think he's more suited to play that strongside end spot against the run first; essentially Kendall Langford's spot from last year. Then, when you bump him inside on passing downs, he can really use his pass-rush skills, though the trick as some have mentioned is getting him enough rest to still remain effective on passing downs.

That said, that was one of the things that intrigued me the most about Coyle. His defense seems to have more defined roles. Just today he mentioned having 13 or 14 players who he considers "starters" just because of the roles they can play on defense. I think with Miami you can plug guys like Olivier Vernon, Jamaal Westerman, Gary Guyton, into some of those roles for sure. Maybe you get lucky. and get something out of a Josh Kaddu or Kheeston Randall that helps bolster the pass-rush. I also think you'll see some bounce-back in that department from Wake, and especially Randy Starks. I'd bet you'll see more blitzes from guys like Vontae Davis (he had a sack last year against Oakland), Reshad Jones, and Chris Clemons that will help get tot he quarterback. Jimmy Wilson, for some reasons it strikes me that he flashed in the preseason a few times blitzing from the slot and/or a walked-up safety spot, which is something Cincinnati did a LOT of last year with both Reggie Nelson and Chris Crocker.

Point being, to me at least, this base "4-3" is a bit of a misnomer, as I think Coyle isn't just giving coachspeak when he says the defense will be multiple. Cameron Wake's said in interviews he's played on both sides of the defense, in a 3-point stance, and up as a rush-linebacker. I certainly think there are ways to use the personnel to still create pressure. The Bengals showed last year that you can still get to the quarterback without having a group of DEs like the Giants have. I think Miami may lack some depth on the D-line that Cincinnati had last year, especially on the interior, but I think their starters, as a group overall, are more talented in the entire front 7 than the personnel the Bengals had to work with last year.

 

.... which will all be interesting considering Coyle wants to be more attacking/pressuring than last year.
What's even more interesting is that his top 2 sack guys from Cincy's 9th ranked scoring D were essentially 2 defensive tackles (Atkins, Fanene). Maybe there is some hope for us.

 

I thought they could be run on last year but keep in mind now they have 2 2nd round picks that will be getting more playing time in Linval Joseph and Marvin Austin both of whom look promising. Tuck is back to 100% as well and last year he played hurt pretty much all year. So I dont think they will be as easy to run on this year. That DL is imo one of the best set position in the entire league..meaning if you stacked every position from every team and ranked them, thats one of the top 5 groups in the entire league.

I think Odrick is 100% an inside rusher. He and Starks are clones to me with Odrick being the better run defender. He is NOT an edge rusher. In a 4-3 hes an under tackle...in a 3-4 hes an open end (Richard Seymour and Aaron Smith's position) and ultimately I think thats the best position for Odrick.

I was never in love with Nolans defensive alignments...I think he gets figured out quick.

IMO we are placing a lot of faith in players like Jamaal Westerman and Olivier Vernon to be pass rushers and they obviously dont have much of a track record. I dont see much of a fall back option there. Starks and Odrick to me are both inside under players and in a pass rush package I could see Soliai off the field in favor of those two. You bring up their interior gap pressure but its frankly the other DE spot that worries me. I could see a lot of double team and chip blocks in Wakes very near future. You bring up the number of players with sacks for the Giants and Bengals which is fine but blitzing to compensate is something Im not a fan of from a 4-3. You show the Qb too much field and a good QB burns you. The NYG can pretty much do whatever they need to do in terms of pressuring the QB from their DL alone. Is every team going to have a group that good? Clearly no. But imo we are going backwards by making this move. Our defense was good last year and if Coyle made some slight tweaks to it could be even better this year but instead he went with a scheme overhaul. Like I said, I hope Im wrong but I dont like the way we approached this.

 

I hate looking forward to a future draft this soon, but at least next year's crop of pass rushers seems deep and plentiful at the top.
How great would it be to fix the offense with Mike Wallace via FA or trade (and see everyone else develop appropriately) and use the 1st pick on an elite pass rusher? I just like seeing opposing QBs get knocked around, especially if his name is Brady.

 

I won't lie, I hate the 3-4 defense and believe it is much more easily exploited than a 4-3 hybrid that throws the occasional 3-4 look. I'm really glad we switched back.

 

I feel like your underestimating Odricks quickness, he may move inside on some 3rd downs but physically he can be in the backfield as much as anyone on 1st and 2nd down.

I also feel Starks will be the odd man out if Vernon becomes a 3 down DE like some believe.

Vernon-Odrick-Solia-Wake would be ideal IMO, but if the rookie is used a situational rusher I'm very comfortable with Odrick outside.

 

I think he is being respectful of Sparano and the last coaching staff.

When I began reading that quote, and I got to the part about it suiting their skill sets better my immediate thought was "The last coaching staff effed up, they didn't use the players properly, they used the wrong scheme to get the most from them" ... And the end of the sentence " maybe, but not necessarily" kind of took the definiteness out of pronouncing the previous regime wrong.

IMHO.

"They used them wrong, now we're using them right." would be a truer statement.

 

I think the pressure from the front four will be fine so long as Olivier is at least average. Here's why.

Wake is a mismatch for his Olineman (except ProBowlers)

Starks and Odrick are very quick, and have great leverage as penetrating interior pass rushers. I don't think many interior linemen could consistently hold them at bay one-on-one either.

That means we have mismatch advantages at 3 positions on the line, and all Olivier or whoever starts at LDE has to do is perform at an average level against one-on-one blocking from most likely bigger and slower RT.

I think we'll get pressure. The bigger danger is that the rookie will get burned badly on trap plays and draws in the run, screens and other sucker-plays designed to victimize over aggressive rooks.

 

That's just it, I don't think Coyle's making that big of a change, despite what those in the media would have you believe.

 

Put us in whatever front they feel is best. I just want domination. Is that too much to ask?