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"Film Room: Ryan Tannehill" by Cian Fahey

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Brasfin, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-ryan-tannehill

    Great analysis by Cian Fahey, there's plenty more at the link above.
     
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  2. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Was just about to post this. Good article. Nice to see. At the very least, nobody can question Tannehill's toughness.
     
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  3. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Love this quote as well:

     
  4. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy Club Member

    He also ranked Tannehill as the best QB last week

    [TABLE="width: 630"]
    [TR="class: odd"]
    [TD]Rank[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Player[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Team[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Acc[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Arm[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Press[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Dec[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Pos[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Ovr[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]1[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Ryan Tannehill[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]MIA[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]24[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]83[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: odd"]
    [TD]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Ben Roethlisberger[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]PIT[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]81[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Russell Wilson[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]SEA[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]21[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]80[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: odd"]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Marcus Mariota[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]TEN[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]80[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Tom Brady[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]NE[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]78[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: odd"]
    [TD]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Drew Brees[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]NO[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]77[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Matt Ryan[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]ATL[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]75[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: odd"]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Jameis Winston[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]TB[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]74[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: even"]
    [TD]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Kirk Cousins[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]WAS[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]72[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="class: odd"]
    [TD]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Sam Bradford[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]MIN[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]72[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2676307-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-1000-players-from-week-10/page/4

    And the 5th best player overall.

    [TABLE="width: 360"]
    [TR]
    [TD]Rank[/TD]
    [TD]Player[/TD]
    [TD]Pos[/TD]
    [TD]Team[/TD]
    [TD]Score[/TD]
    [TD]LW[/TD]
    [TD]Dir[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]1[/TD]
    [TD]Jason Peters[/TD]
    [TD]LT[/TD]
    [TD]PHI[/TD]
    [TD]84[/TD]
    [TD]16[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2[/TD]
    [TD]Ezekiel Elliott[/TD]
    [TD]RB[/TD]
    [TD]DAL[/TD]
    [TD]83[/TD]
    [TD]23[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]3[/TD]
    [TD]Darian Stewart[/TD]
    [TD]FS[/TD]
    [TD]DEN[/TD]
    [TD]83[/TD]
    [TD]76[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]4[/TD]
    [TD]Tyron Smith[/TD]
    [TD]LT[/TD]
    [TD]DAL[/TD]
    [TD]83[/TD]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]Ryan Tannehill[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD]MIA[/TD]
    [TD]83[/TD]
    [TD]62[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]6[/TD]
    [TD]Preston Smith[/TD]
    [TD]OLB[/TD]
    [TD]WAS[/TD]
    [TD]82[/TD]
    [TD]NR[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]7[/TD]
    [TD]Geno Atkins[/TD]
    [TD]DT[/TD]
    [TD]CIN[/TD]
    [TD]82[/TD]
    [TD]NR[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD]Korey Toomer[/TD]
    [TD]ILB[/TD]
    [TD]SD[/TD]
    [TD]81[/TD]
    [TD]313[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]9[/TD]
    [TD]Steven Nelson[/TD]
    [TD]CB[/TD]
    [TD]KC[/TD]
    [TD]81[/TD]
    [TD]189[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10[/TD]
    [TD]Ben Roethlisberger[/TD]
    [TD]QB[/TD]
    [TD]PIT[/TD]
    [TD]81[/TD]
    [TD]521[/TD]
    [TD]↑[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2676307-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-1000-players-from-week-10/page/3
     
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  5. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Hope he has enough time to break out against the Rams. More rollouts please...

    But yeah, the Stills pass was sick.

    Gase has this team more balanced each and every week. It's a beautiful thing.
     
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  6. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I do like Cian Fahey's analysis, but we should remember he has consistently been the most pro Tannehill voice in the national media.
     
    dolphin25 likes this.
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    He's pro Tannehill because he believes in the tape he sees though.
     
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  8. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I'm kind of thinking he's gonna have a helluva game. Looks more confident. Doesn't look down and out. Something is different about him right now.

    I'll admit, I was really down on him earlier in the year. Now, I see. If he can continue to produce, use his legs, and make throws like that WITHOUT taking too many shots, I'll be back on that train.
     
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  9. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree with him too. I feel he is the best film analyst in the national media. What I'm saying is just that other people see the same tape and, for example, see a QB taking unnecessary hits because he lacks pocket presence.

    It's one man's opinion, and it isn't someone saying "I was wrong, Tannehill is the real deal", it's someone saying "See, I was right about Tannehill".

    Now it's nice when someone else agrees with us. However, Tannehill still has to win over more people in the media and Cian Fahey already had his back.
     
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  10. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO that article basically neuters all of these stat based arguments against Tannehill. It's example after example of Tannehill making elite level throws many of which either fail through the fault of other players or succeed despite the failures of other players. These are the throws that many claimed Tannehill couldn't make or hadn't made consistently before last Sunday. The examples show that they were made but they were consistently forgotten as they often came in losses. And these are just a fraction of Tannehill's elite throws. IMO most of his best throws are in the short and intermediate ranges. Reality is that all of these "QB" stats are really whole offense stats. They ignore individual evaluation. Some people think they're taking the emotion out of evaluation when they use these stats to evaluate an individual QB. They're not. What they're taking out is the individual evaluation.
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I don't think the article neuters anything stat-based analysis has suggested. First of all, most experts/insiders that do "individual evaluation" post overall rankings of QB's that correlate highly with what you'd get if you used stats like passer rating. For example..
    http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/2015-nfl-qb-tier-rankings/story?id=32652348
    http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/2014-nfl-qb-tier-rankings/story?id=32652348

    They consistently put Tannehill around average, or middle tier, same as stats-based analysis. If anything, most who do these "individual evaluations" disagree with your view as I remember it that Tannehill should be rated a lot higher.

    Secondly, that article is mostly about the game against the Chargers. Tannehill played fantastic that game. I never heard a stats-based critique of his play there. Indeed, his stats suggest he played a great game. So while all stats are team stats, "QB stats" do tell you a good deal about the QB. Can't just dismiss "stats-based analysis" that easily rafael.
     
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  12. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy Club Member

    Nice to see him trusting Stills and Parker to make a play. We all know he trusts Landry that way. If a QB trusts all of his receivers will be where they're supposed to be means he doesn't even need to see them before releasing the ball. That changes everything.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was a little confused when they said that Stills pass was for 39 yards...I could have swore it seemed longer. Now it makes sense though- he was 11 yards from the LOS and it was caught 9 yards deep in the end zone. Beautiful throw too.
     
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  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I remember SCREAMING several years ago that Wallace gave up time and time again with deep passes that could have been caught, so it's good to see someone else notice that as well.
     
  15. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So much this.

    Stats are results. Results are always useful for analysis. The problem with football is, as you point out, it is such a team sport. It's super hard to get the type of control groups necessary to have a purely statistical analysis be consistently accurate. How do you compare QBs playing with different teammates against different opponents accurately enough to prognosticat?


    In football, stats tell what happened, not why. Love me some stats when they back up good analysis. Whether i agree with the analysis or not. But, too often it seems they are used to back up lazy analysis. Too often they are held as the more important part of an argument here. Tell my why something happended, we both already saw the results. Tell me why you think something will happen. Why is far more compelling.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
     
  16. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    IF he has a good game against the Rams defense, then that could be a sign he has turned the corner.
     
  17. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most "insiders" don't do any individual evaluation. You're lucky if they've done more than watch a few highlights and read the stats before putting forth error filled analysis. When you find an evaluator who has demonstrably watched every throw you get opinions like Fahey's.

    That article showed multiple examples of plays that stats' analysis would credit as QB failures that were obviously anything but. The stats guys keep telling me he's average and I'm watching gif after gif of elite throws. A stat analysis would reflect those b/c all they see is offensive failure that they're erroneously attributing to the QB.
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    To further your point....

    There's going to rebuttal(s) that discuss how every team has dropped passes and blown assignments, so the belief is that it all comes out in the wash across the league. And its that fallacy that is the dagger in the heart of these statistical only analysis.

    These stats people will try to sell their analysis with the notion that negative plays are not only constant across the league, but happen at a constant rate. They tried that argument with the Clutch/4th Quarter Comebacks argument. The notion by them was and is, is that a bad oline doesn't affect QB performance on the 4th quarter obvious passing downs because every oline in those situations has to face a defense that knows what's coming. Ignoring, completely how bad a given oline is or how tired they might be because the team called mostly passing plays, etc.

    So with that "logic", they'll say all QBs have to deal with WRs dropping the catch, therefore, the plays you're talking about aren't relevant and shouldn't be counted.
     
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  19. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Especially without Albert and Pouncey, but lets face it... that puts us back in the position we were early on in the season with no real OL, and likely a struggling running game. there seems to be a lot of confidence around here heading into the Rams game. sure, I get it, we're not replacing Albert and Pouncey with Thomas and Turner, so that's already improvement, but still... It's not a good situation for the offense. That shouldn't be forgotten, but it seems it is in most people's thoughts heading into this game.
     
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  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The offense was new back then. Gase threw a lot at Tanny, and Tanny and the entire offense wasn't ready for it. They pared it back. They opened it up a little against SD. If this was year 2 or 3 yeah I'd be concerned. But it's the second half of year 1 of a new offense, so you have to discount the first few games.

    But this is a good defensive front especially if Quinn plays. Even if we win I want to see how Tanny performs individually. Teams regularly put up 30 points on the Chargers, our offense put up 24 so Tanny played great but we didn't blow them out. We played well, defense stymied Rivers. The Rams suck donkey balls but their defense isn't bad. I'm excited to see how our offense does.

    The good thing is, the Rams might only score 6 points if that.
     
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  21. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Let me give you an example of where there's no question there's "individual evaluation" going on: the draft.

    Now.. I don't mind someone telling me information from some source is for the most part useless if they have a method that works. But clearly "individual evaluation" by pros doesn't work that well given the huge percentage of QB picks in the 1st round that turn out to be busts.

    So I think a little humility is in order when going around claiming stats are useless (you've done that a lot). Individual evaluation way too often gets it wrong.

    The question therefore becomes: where could stats help? Well first of all, stats aren't that good at predicting things either (it's mostly post-hoc analysis). But they quantify to you how well you theoretically could predict what you want, say through correlations (assuming for the moment a line fits the data well). The square of that correlation represents the "variance explained", i.e. the maximum amount of the variation in the outcome you desire to predict that could be explained through the stat. So if passer rating has a 0.51 correlation to wins from 1990-2011, then about 25% of wins could at maximum be explained by that stat. Having the ability to quantify the utility (or lack thereof) is a useful source of information no individual evaluator can provide.

    Second, you get objectivity. You don't get personal bias in all this like you get when you have different people evaluate the same data. Hard to take the concept of "individual evaluation" too seriously when so many disagree using the same data.

    Third, the analysis of data is about as optimal as it can get. The problem with stats is that it uses far less data than you get watching tape. But what it does with the data is essentially optimal, while the individual evaluator doesn't know how best to use the much more rich information he has access to.

    Given that, it's hard for me to respect a position that says stats are useless as you often claim.


    To the point of neutering statistical analysis of Tannehill. Any properly qualified statistical analysis will not be neutered. As stated before, the stats do not attribute everything to the QB. Stated countless times over years and yet the misrepresentation that it does continues! In fact, with the correlation and the implied amount of variance explained, it tells you that the majority of stuff that makes Tannehill who he is isn't even being captured by that.

    Point is, both stats and watching tape help, and importantly.. NEITHER is that good. You shouldn't dismiss stats until you have a method that really works well.
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I give Fahey no deference. He's a guy who's never had to evaluate for a living and is just watching film
    Like any of you guys. Say Aqua4 reviews all QBs every week and Fin-O does the same. Y'all will just back up the one you agree with.

    The guy is a clear Tanny fan who declared him great in 2014 and has been defending it since. Just last month he said Tanny is in the same tier as Luck and Wilson. If you want to argue him and Luck are in the same level I won't laugh at you. It's defensible.

    Wilson? GTFO.

    And he has Cam Newton in the same tier as Brees Brady Romo and Ben.

    No. Are we sure he's watching film? Cam gets results but the film is not kind to him when judging his passing.
     
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  23. josh

    josh Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No Isotoners for James this Christmas -- Asswipe!
     
  24. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Their defense is really strong, if their backs don't break.
     
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  25. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    If Albert and pouncey are both out we aren't scoring. It will be like the Tennessee and cincy games.their pass rush will just shut us down from being able to sustain any drives. This week the defense has to carry us and literally hold them to 10-14 points just to give us a shot
     
  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we will still score. Crappy oline and new offense was just too much.

    But they do have a good defense.
     
  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yeah, they have 2 wins this year while scoring less than 10 points, strong D, in fact, as bad as they are on offense, they still have 4 wins.
     
  28. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course stats aren't useless for everything. I've never stated they were. But they are useless when making an individual evaluation based on the results of a team sport. There are simply too many variables that can go wrong on one play to determine whether an individual did well or poorly based on the result. You could do that for a kicker to an extent, but for a QB, it's basically useless.

    And you know what else happens in the draft? Poor evaluators over reliance on stats. In fact if there's one thing that all draft evaluators do, is cite stats. So if you want to identify one consistent thing in all of those draft busts, it would be the use of stats. Stats can draw your attention to a problem, but you have to evaluate the individual play to reach a reliable conclusion. You can look at stat and conclude that an offense has performed poorly, but you'll never know why. If you want the why then you have to watch the film. And watching film will never be science. It will always be art.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  29. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    The bolded is provably wrong. I mean what the QB does, and how he does it, is an integral part of stats like passer rating. So even if you can't tell precisely what percentage of passer rating (a team stat) is due to the QB, passer rating does carry information about the individual even in team sports. In fact, given its good correlation to winning as well as to the opinions of many football insiders doing their own "individual evaluations", it seems to carry quite a bit of information about the QB.

    Either way just so it's clear.. for a single play, watching tape > stats. There's no question about that. But you can't pick out individual plays where you can correctly point out a stat is relatively speaking useless because it throws away tons of useful data and somehow infer from this that they are useless when talking about averages. Once you look at averages, not only do things "average out", but more importantly the human isn't going to combine all the individual evaluations in any principled and unbiased way.

    So in summary, 1) team stats logically do tell you something about individuals on the team despite any number of variables, and 2) being inferior for analyzing a single play doesn't mean they are inferior when talking about trends or averages.

    Are you saying you can consistently do better than all draft evaluators that cite stats (which according to you is all of them)? Prove it and I'll have more respect for your position. Otherwise, where's the evidence your tape-analysis skills are better than those that partly rely on stats?
     
  30. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course the passer rating is related to winning. It's a passing league so how well a team passes and stops the pass is related to winning. And the QB is part of the passer rating, but so are the receivers and the OL. And play calling is a huge factor as well. Failures by any of those areas will torpedo a play. If a play fails the stat records the result but it provides zero information about which element failed. People who apply it as an individual QB stat are making the false assumption that the QB was the only element. It's also a false assumption to claim that all the other elements are equal. Reality is that some players and coaches are better than others. That's an obvious statement but it's ignored by anybody claiming everything evens out. A horrible situation will make it much more difficult for a QB to put up a good passer rating. You can have a decade of bad coaching torpedo a pass offense and those who claim the passer rating is all about the QB will erroneously blame it all on the unfortunate QBs who found themselves in that situation.

    I'm saying that you brought up the draft as if it were a place where evaluators were all doing film study rather than relying on stats. And then blamed the high number of busts on individual evaluation. I'm saying that the use of stats as the evaluation tool is more ubiquitous than individual evaluation. So a high bust rate can just as easily, if not more so point to an over reliance on stats.
     
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  31. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Right.. the ONLY way you and others can make the argument you're making is to systematically misrepresent what everyone you're arguing with has been saying.

    Literally NO ONE has ever argued that the QB was the only element in passer rating. You keep repeating that false mantra. Similarly, literally NO ONE has argued all other elements are equal. Point is.. even team stats tell you something about the individual.


    Once again.. misrepresentation. I never said evaluators only do film study.

    And you're ignoring the other important point: how can you go around claiming all those professional scouts could be doing better than they're doing if they only did it your way (using no stats) until you prove you can do it better?
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So, cbrad, when FinD and I started pointing out that QBs success is dependent on other players, no one argued with us? When we argued that rating is a team stat, no one argued with us?

    Truth is, many did. You may not agree with those people, but they do exist. Many of those people believe that rating is a QB stat, and does a good job of showing how good or bad that QB is.
     
  33. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Big difference between Tunsil playing LT and Turner. Thats like comparing Albert to Clabo. Huge difference. Urbik is much better than Thomas as well. The combo of Tunsil and Urbik is light yrs better than Turner and Thomas. Losing Pouncey hurts on top of it all but we arent going to get shut out on O strictly because of our oline. Turner and Thomas were the 2 worse players at their position so ofcourse they had a big negative impact. That shouldnt happen with Tunsil at LT. And Urbik is at least a competent Nfl player unlike Thomas. I guarantee MIA scores more than 14 pts. Their D should be able to set the O up with short field position but who knows with Howard still being out. Lippett and Maxwell scare the **** out of me.
     
  34. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Many times I asked the posters you guys argue with to clarify whether they think W/L is due solely or almost solely to the QB, or whether they think passer rating is solely or almost solely due to the QB.

    In every case I remember, poster after poster said they do NOT think the QB is solely responsible. Yet the misrepresentation continues.

    If you think there is a poster who actually thinks passer rating is due completely to QB ability, name that poster and we can ask them.
     
    jdang307 likes this.
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What are you talking about? People argued nonstop with us about QBs success being dependent on other players. People argued nonstop that passer rating wasn't a team stat. I'm not going to start naming people, as I don't care to.

    However, even with W/L experiment you did...yes, you had people SAY that they didn't believe it was all QB...then those same people would turn around and blame Tannehill for our poor W/L, and would accuse me, and others, of "making excuses" when we'd point out how badly other units were functioning. So, people say one thing, but do another.
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    When people say it was the QB that was at fault, they mean that's where (the majority of) the responsibility for the outcome in that particular game lies. That's not at all the same as claiming passer rating or W/L is due only to the QB or that success isn't dependent on other players. What they're saying is that in their opinion, the other players weren't at fault.

    Also.. you can't seriously think that a person is so stupid as to not realize the QB is not the ONLY factor in a team sport like football or that it's not the ONLY factor in what goes into passer rating right? People here are not THAT stupid. You need to adjust your interpretation of what they say to take that into account.

    So it's clear: where you and others differ is where most of the blame should be assigned. Everyone accepts a QB is affected by his surroundings, but to what degree no one knows and people can legitimately differ on. And even if a QB is affected by his surroundings, the blame for one play or game can be placed on an individual player (e.g. a WR dropping a perfectly thrown ball.. blame is on the WR even if it takes at least 2 to tango).
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Sure...yet I've been largely criticized. Refer back to the Tannehill Wallace debates as a perfect example.
     
  38. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    It seems to me that you and Brad are judging 2 different evaluators, Brad is judging actual scouts, as they travel around a certain part of the country watching games, there job is to evaluate players with their eyes, they don't travel from Missou to Bama to read the box scores.

    You seem to be judging the talking heads on TV, because scouts don't rely on stats.

    Stats and eval go together, if you base it on one and ignore the other it will bite you in the butt.
     
  39. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Last sentence is right on of course. But professional scouts do usually reference stats in their scouting reports. And why? Because they agree with your last sentence.
     
    Finster likes this.
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe the coaches are on the same page as me and are as frustrated as I have been.

    Christenson on Ryan having to take more responsibility now that the line is going to miss two starters..

    " yes I think this game does, we know the ball has to come out quick, we know how their guys rush the passer and how they get their guys rolling upfield, we know we have to protect him well and he's got to be a part of that protection process, get that ball out, PULL IT DOWN AND RUN, he had a huge run last week, and hope that continues to IMPROVE, SLOWLY BUT SURELY."

    So ryan, it's your move brother, take our advice and start threatening a defense on purpose and help your team win a lot more....please..

    Everyone now should lay off me on the subject, it's now common knowledge that this part of the game has been absent from his repertoire and clearly not something the coaches are leaving unnoticed and are happy about..its clearly an important topic and something that is being discussed inside the room.

    Now the interesting part of this is do we see that message getting into Ryans head or do we see him continue to ignore it or be oblivious to it..

    Like Clyde said, he had one good one last week that was pivitol, let's see if he gets what it is we're truly talking about
     

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