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Fins are above avg in everything except passing offense..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by normaldude, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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  2. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    The passing offense in my view has become very short field as of late, where very few if any longballs (20+ yards in the air) are attempted or hit. If that doesn't change significantly, I can't see the passing offense improving measurably.
     
  3. ET7

    ET7 New Member

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    We aren't attempting them because outside of wallace we have NO one that can run a deep route and aren't as slow as a damn turtle and with Wallace Hennehill can't hit him with a deep ball if his life depended on it.
     
  4. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    They were attempted, and a large % of them were promptly dropped, including Wallace taking a TD out of bounds. Stickum anyone?
     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And? While I would love a deep bomb to Wallace now and then, we seem to be putting up points without them. How much do some of the drops have to do with the low passer rating?
     
  6. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    We are also 25th in the league in passing yards, and Tannehill is only throwing for 217 yards/game.
     
  7. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    A LOT of difference...they'd be around 100 rating w/o them...since at least 4 would have been TDs.
     
  8. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Passing offense is probably the most important one to be good at.

    And being great at everything BUT that does tend to fall on the QB.
     
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  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And thus the legit though short sighted calls for MMoore to take over at Qb

    217 ypg is not going to get it done
     
  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Russell Wilson's 2013 average was lower. In fact, every year he's played has been lower.
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Makes sense to replace Tannehill with someone who averages 212.84 yards per game.
     
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  12. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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    Russell Wilson's 2013 passer rating was much higher (101.2)

    If our offense is averaging 5.0 yds/rushing attempt, with a 100+ passer rating, I really don't care if the yardage total is high or low.
     
  13. Roll Tide

    Roll Tide New Member

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    What is Tannehill's 3rd down rating and 4th Quarter rating? I've read this argument before but apparently he's near bottom in those categories, where the QB's expected to deliver.
     
  14. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Was I talking to you? Or are you the one only stating the yardage-per-game as what won't get it done?

    My point is that it doesn't matter...thanks for agreeing.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Both of those are very below par. If he is going to get people in his corner, he is going to need to improve those two stats.
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You weren't talking to me either but I'll jump in. 200 ypg at 60% accuracy ain't going to get it done and Tanny has not shown he can rise above 60%.
     
  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    The second you mention "rating" it's a lost cause...using a team stat to pick into one player's performance doesn't wash.

    His second half was brilliant...did he deliver?

    As normaldude also pointed out, Russell Wilson's rating was much higher...forget the rest of the offense...they don't do anything when a QB throws...passer rating is useless to the point.
     
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  18. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Different argument altogether. The post I was mentioning claimed that based on RT's YPG, it makes a certain sense to want to bring on Matt Moore, who, by the way, has a YPG average of 192 in his most significant playing year, much lower if you consider all games where he played at least a half...also a career average under 60% while we're at it.

    Doesn't wash.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And yet Tannehill has a decent amount of fourth quarter comeback wins.
     
  20. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    3rd quarter = 97.8

    4th quarter = 67.3

    His YPA in both quarters is below 6, which is very bad, and his 4th quarter completion percentage is but a mere 51.8%.

    His 4th quarter play was similar last year. 64.3 QB rating, 56.1% completion percentage, 5.6 YPA.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14876/ryan-tannehill
     
  21. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    Also, if you're looking for a measure of clutch play, WPA is better than 3rd and 4th quarter QB ratings, because it isn't artificially inflated by performance during garbage time.

    Tannehill is currently 28th in the league in WPA per game among quarterbacks:

    http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/stats/offensive-players/quarterbacks
     
  22. Roll Tide

    Roll Tide New Member

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    ‚ÄčThe QB has a 74.1 passer rating on third down. He's completing 54.2% of his passes on that critical down. He's 28th best QB on 3rd downs
     
  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    Fixed it for you.
     
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  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah it would, simply b/c there is nothing THill is doing in the offense aside from running that Moore cannot do better, esp hitting on deep passes.

    It's an ugly truth DDpree
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Unless Tannehill is injured I can't see Moore getting a chance to start.

    If Tannehill plays decently or well, he continues to start.

    If Tannehill regresses then we have a losing record and no real playoff hope, so we may as well give him a chance til the end of the year hoping a lightbulb comes on and we can salvage the investment in him (first round pick) as our QB.

    Can't think of a non-injury scenario that makes sense for us to put Moore in. And trust me, I've been plenty tempted to argue for it but I just can't find good grounds to do so.
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same guy, only less excuses Bpk.

    Last yr felt bad for him b/c the OL was getting him killed, this year, now we have a turnover machine with the same flaws.

    Replace Gibby with Landry, one less excuse for THill, and yet our ppg is where? Turnovers?

    Still love THill, not buying in, see to many things he just either screws up or leaves out on the field, tighten that up or he should be shown the clipboard, headphones, and the cooler
     
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  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    yet he was #2 in the NFL in 4th quarter comeback wins last year.

    1st quarter = 93.6
    2nd quarter = 72.8
    3rd quarter = 97.8
    4th quarter within 7 = 95.1
    Last 2 minutes of half = 97.5

    Redzone = 115.6 [8 TD, 0 INT]
    Blitz = 93.0

    Tied = 110.4
    Trailing = 76.5
    Trailing within 7 = 78.5

    1st Down = 84.5
    2nd Down = 94.6
    3rd Down & 1-2 = 109.5
    3rd Down & 3-7 = 94.1
    3rd Down & 8-10 = 61.5
    3rd Down & 11+ = 5.1 [9 times, two more times than 3rd & 1-2]

    Right Sideline = 90.0
    Left Sideline = 69.6 [ahem, Hartline]
    2 WR Formation = 110.3
    2 TE Formation = 100.6

    Pass Attempts 1-30 = 87.2 rating, 6.4 y/a, 62.0% completion, 8 TD, 4 INT, 36.7% First Down
    Pass Attempts 31+ = 51.8 rating, 0 TD, 1 INT
    Miami's % of Runs Called = 42% [18th in NFL]
    **Hopefully you don't need the above trio explained or told what's wrong with the picture.

    Roethlisberger year 3

    Games 1-8 = 72.2 rating

    Pass Attempts 1-30 = 81.6 rating, 7.5 y/a, 60.5%, 17 TD, 16 INT,
    Pass Attempts 31+ = 42.2 rating, 1 TD, 7 INT

    Tied = 75.4
    Trailing = 69.5
    Trailing 1-8 = 76.9

    1st Quarter = 88.4
    2nd Quarter = 85.9
    3rd Quarter = 67.7
    4th Quarter within 7 = 55.5
    Last 2 minutes of Half = 67.0

    Redzone = 64.7

    1st Down = 80.2
    2nd Down = 75.8
    3rd Down & 1-2 = 122.9
    3rd Down & 3-7 = 59.7
    3rd Down & 8-10 = 73.4
    3rd Down & 11+ = 82.1

    Darn, and to think that Roethlisberger guy was allowed to finish out his 3rd year.
     
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  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    A few solutions appear somewhat transparent.
    Stop making Tannehill throw 31+ times per game [as in- don't be 18th in the NFL in rushing attempts per game].
    Avoid 3rd & long.
    Ditch Hartline... or ease Landry into that role. {Throwing to the left sideline used to be Tannehill's strong suit in college IIRC}
    Use more 2 TE formations.
     
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  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Find new coaches
    Find new QBs

    Very unlikely those things happen this season, so basically all you can do is hope.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  30. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Keep Tannehill..keep trying to find a QB whos an upgrade
     
  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    No, not unlikely. We should be able to draft a backup QB to replace Moore's hefty salary.
     
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  32. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I was referring to the actual season. Next season could have a whole set of issues.

    I'm not sure how replacing Matt Moore is going to improve the passing game, either.
     
  33. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    The run game is ranked 6th in the NFL, obviously a big improvement from last season. Yet they're still stuck in a middling 3rd place and below .500.

    Passing game needs to stop being so inconsistent, coaches need to figure out how to balance it all. Any hope they do? They've been getting production from the run game (plus defense has been generally good) and the game Win-Loss results, the most important part of all this, aren't much different from previous years so far.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Passing....OFFENSE people!

    Does the passing offense consist of more than the QB? Does it include, WRs, TEs, RBs, Oline, OC?

    If yes, then Passing Offense stats are about ALL OF THOSE PLAYERS/FACTORS!

    If a QB avoided the pass rush and then threw the perfect pass to the correct receiver.......and the receiver drops it, is that QBs fault? No. Does it still negatively impact passing offense stats? Yes. That's why these stats are stupid for judging QBs.

    Stop listening to Dolphans shoUrite! He's been wrong for years about Tannehill.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    What are the odds that on a team where you have ~5 players catching the ball regularly, that all five are going to drop the ball at a disproportionate rate, over the course of 35+ games?
     
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  36. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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    Fin-fans with the "Sanchize" mentality will make all sorts of excuses for Tannehill..

    - 2012: "He needs more weapons!"

    - 2013: "The o-line is terrible!"

    - 2014: "His receivers are dropping the ball!"

    At some point, you have to wake up, and realize Tannehill is a 2nd rd talent that we reached for. He's a little bit better than Chad Henne, but not by much.
     
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  37. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Passing
    NY/A Offense 29th
    NY/A Defense 2nd

    Rushing
    Y/A Offense 6th
    Y/A Defense 8th
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    This actually is more an argument in favor of Tannehill. I would think over the long term, the average should coffee back up with receivers not dropping so many balls. Tannehill's numbers would then also come up. The problem is, Tannehill has had different struggles each puff the three years in the league...big one affecting his stats this year is the dropping of balls.
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yeah, welcome to the NFL. Everyone team has deficiencies, and every QB has to deal with them. Ryan Tannehill's haven't been any bigger than most other QBs'.
     
  40. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    And sometimes the quarterback's play even lessens the impact of them! Hey, there's a novel idea! ;)
     

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